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PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong?
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So for the first time I'm working with a frame that has a PF30 BB. As I don't have the tool yet I had that pressed in by a LBS. I then put GXP reducer cups in there following the instructions provided (PF30 dust seals>GXP cups>GXP seals>wavy washer on NDS). As seen in this video in the link below, the crank actually seems to spin about what I'd expect, could be a bit better, but there is a pretty significant noise when it spins. Honestly the video exaggerates it a little bit but still... I've been doing a ton of research as I'm new to reducers, and honestly I would much rather just rock a 30mm crank but don't have one at the moment, but can't identify exactly whats causing the grind. I'm thinking maybe the BB or the reducers aren't lined up perfectly, like something at some point is slightly misaligned so the actual spindle is rubbing inside the shell? I would like to think the BB was pressed correctly so my best guess is the drive side reducer, but with a decent amount of grease I would imagine that would find its place no problem, and it looks flush to the shell all around. The NDS reducer is not flush to the shell but it doesn't go any further into the PF30 cup. Am I missing something here?
Thanks!

Video and two pictures

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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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That does not look like it spins decently and sounds like you haveve the preload too tight. It should spin even more freely than that with no grinding. Sounds like it is too tight. Remove a spacer and/or adjust the preload collar to loosen it up. With a preload collar you don't need a wave washer technically.
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [loxx0050] [ In reply to ]
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So even if I have the NDS arm completely loose or off it will still create the same noise. There is no tightness level where it changes the spin quality. I don't have a preload collar as far as I'm aware, unless its built into the reducer somehow?

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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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I took a closer look at your pictures and it doesn't look like you have a preload collar. Sounds like there is something wrong with the bearings on the BB. I'd take it back to shop to look at it. They either screwed up the install or they are defective to begin with. Another possibility is the cups are no square and maybe you might need to get angular contact bearings version of the BB. If they aren't square then no amount of adjustment to the spacers will help. My thoughts but get it checked out.
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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the PF30 BB you have looks like a cheap FSA plastic cups they kind of suck
get a PF30 to GXP
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [Clutch Cargo] [ In reply to ]
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They do definitely feel cheap. Didn't buy them personally, came with the bike. Aside from feeling cheap is it really that likely to cause the issues I'm having right now though?

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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
They do definitely feel cheap. Didn't buy them personally, came with the bike. Aside from feeling cheap is it really that likely to cause the issues I'm having right now though?

I think you actually have a BB386EVO bottom bracket. PF30 is basically the same thing with the bearings spaced much closer. BB386EVO is a better standard.

Forget the references to preload adjusters. These aren't used with GXP. I am not a fan of the spacer/bushing conversion systems because GXP spindles are fixed against the NDS and use the wave washer for bearing preload pressure. Getting this right with bushings will be hit or miss.

Long term I'd recommend using a screw together - BB386EVO to GXP conversion bottom bracket such as this one: https://wheelsmfg.com/...am-cranks-black.html
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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Yes it is a 386 Evo it just has a pf30. Unfortunately the only real reason for running gxp is to run my Quarq riken and that won't be compatible with bb386evo regardless of the type of shell I'm using, which sucks. So if I have to get a new power meter anyways I figure I might as well go something with a 30mm spindle.

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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
Yes it is a 386 Evo it just has a pf30. Unfortunately the only real reason for running gxp is to run my Quarq riken and that won't be compatible with bb386evo regardless of the type of shell I'm using, which sucks. So if I have to get a new power meter anyways I figure I might as well go something with a 30mm spindle.

BB386EVO is just one of a number of PF BB standards. Running GXP with any of the 30mm spindle BB's is fine if you install the proper bottom bracket.

Your example video and photos show a newer SRAM Quarq Prime Ready crankset. Depending on what kit you're using for conversion bushings if you try to install your Quarq Riken GXP it may not fit because the backside of the PM doesn't have clearance.

The WM BB I linked will work. The Enduro Torqtite BB386EVO to GXP will also work well, but is twice the price and uses hard to find install wrenches.
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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The WM BB you linked has a compatibility chart and it explicitly says a Quarq riken will not work. The crank in that video is an 8 bolt Quarq ready but I have an older 3 bolt riken that definitely rubs in the current set up and WM says would be incompatible. If I get a non crank power meter instead I'll probably still get that BB otherwise I'll find a 30mm crank. That feels like my best option.

Thanks for the help. For some reason I've always struggled with BB standards but haven't had to worry about it much since all our other bikes have English threaded and we run megaexo or gxp which feels pretty simple.

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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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This shows the different BB
And missing Is the T47

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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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if I had to guess, the shop pressed both sides in at same time and IME that results in what you have every time. was the final reason I finally went and got last tools I needed to do all work on bike myself, iee bb press stuff. didn't matter the bb, sram, endure, etc, shop always got me the same result. now I don't have that issue anymore
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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Hmm I kind of figured you just always pressed both at the same time. When you do one at a time you just brace against the shell when pressing the first one?

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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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It's because of crazy issues like this that I just went and bought the Wheels Mfg bottom bracket. If you can't get it right, definitely explore this solution, it saved me a ton of grief.
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I would in an instant if it meant I could run my Quarq Riken, but this clearance issue is a huge hassle I didn't expect to have.

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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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nickwhite wrote:
It's because of crazy issues like this that I just went and bought the Wheels Mfg bottom bracket. If you can't get it right, definitely explore this solution, it saved me a ton of grief.

x2 for this option. Works like a charm, esp if you get their universal pressfit tool.

Next races on the schedule: Phil's Cookie Fondo 2019, IMAZ 2019
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Let me explain what's going on:


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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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While I'm kind of glad to hear I'm not the only one that has had issues with this... that XKCD above is just way too real.

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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
While I'm kind of glad to hear I'm not the only one that has had issues with this... that XKCD above is just way too real.

Actually the proliferation isn't due to a desire to reduce standards. More like once the standard was broken, everyone thought it would be cool to make their own special unique shit.... that they could then claim was better than everything else.
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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So I stumbled upon this BBinifinite bottom bracket that claims to work with all sram cranksets/power meters. I'm skeptical of how they get the clearance because the cups of the cheap plastic one I have on now barely extend past the shell but this seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. Definitely more than I want to spend but if it would save me the hassle of having to buy whole new power meter it may be worth it.

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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
So I stumbled upon this BBinifinite bottom bracket that claims to work with all sram cranksets/power meters. I'm skeptical of how they get the clearance because the cups of the cheap plastic one I have on now barely extend past the shell but this seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. Definitely more than I want to spend but if it would save me the hassle of having to buy whole new power meter it may be worth it.

Sorry for the bad links earlier. I forgot that the Riken era spider actually interferes with the outer flange of the 386EVO bottom brackets. Even the new DZero Quarqs w/30mm spindles and I think aluminum arms won’t work with 386EVO (tho the gxp version does work in adapter bb)

So one bit I think you are confused about is the BB system on this bike. First it is 386EVO not PF30. They both install into frames with 46mm shell inner diameters, but the 386EVO is 86mm wide while the PF30 is 68mm wide. The Cervelo BBRight system also fits in 46mm BB shell and sits in width between the other two systems at 79mm. It is the width of the 386EVO that reduces clearance on the Riken to the point the rear of the spider contacts the BB flange where it sits several mm outside of the 46mm diameter frame bb shell.

Second thing is any plastic cups used with your current BB should just be sacrificial. This can be confirmed if you’ll note bike frame brand and/or post some shots of bb area without cranks installed, These cups are normally tapped out using a headset removal tool or similar along with the BB bearings.

I forgot about the BBInfinite option. There 386EVO to GXP works for your Riken on the 386EVO installation because it is pressed in as one piece from the NDS. This means no flange on the DS which eliminates the Riken clearance interference. The BBInfinite pretty much ensures a smooth spinning crank as there are no alignment issues. Potential downside is that the bb can shift as it is press fit and has no flange on one side. They include some Loctite bearing retaining compound for insurance. One poster on here, Jens, did show up at a travel race to find that his bike box had been compressed on DS and the bb shifted over.
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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Okay so this frame (my wifes), is a Ceepo Viper-R. BB3886evo. The press fit cups that were included were these: FSA PF30 BB. The adapters are these: FSA BB3886evo to GXP. It's that little plastic rim that interferes with the Riken and as far as I can tell that is part of the actual BB and can't be removed.
Here are some greasy pictures of both sides of the BB area. I'm aware that seal thing is cracked and also the NDS picture might not be showing up.

It definitely seems like the bbinfinite option is best, except for the fact that they only have the expensive one in stock and we are seriously penny pinching right now. But considering the other option is just upgrading to a Dzero Spider or a brand new 30mm dzero it seems like it may be worth it.

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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
Okay so this frame (my wifes), is a Ceepo Viper-R. BB3886evo. The press fit cups that were included were these: FSA PF30 BB. The adapters are these: FSA BB3886evo to GXP. It's that little plastic rim that interferes with the Riken and as far as I can tell that is part of the actual BB and can't be removed.
Here are some greasy pictures of both sides of the BB area. I'm aware that seal thing is cracked and also the NDS picture might not be showing up.

It definitely seems like the bbinfinite option is best, except for the fact that they only have the expensive one in stock and we are seriously penny pinching right now. But considering the other option is just upgrading to a Dzero Spider or a brand new 30mm dzero it seems like it may be worth it.

The BB photos wouldn't come up in Google Photos, but your links explained how you tried to setup the frame.

The terminology with press fit bottom brackets can be confusing. That Ceepo frame has a 46mm BB shell diameter. Pressfit bottom bracket cups are pressed directly into the carbon frame shell. These cups hold sealed cartridge bearings. The combination of the cups and the bearings is the "bottom bracket." As I mentioned earlier all these 30mm PF BB standards have the same cups and bearings. They just differ in installed width depending on what BB standard of frame they are pressed into.

The plastic PF cups are removable and meant to be discarded after removal. They are usually damaged during removal anyway. These are what I mentioned earlier as what are knocked out with a headset cup removal tool. You can see the shell w/o any cups in the photos here: https://trieverythingstore.com/...athlon-bike-frameset You mentioned you didn't have PF BB tools so it is probably easiest to have the shop that installed it knock it back out. This example is a smaller diameter PF BB, but it shows you what I'm describing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOJAKBQOU9U

That's too bad that BBInfinite is out of stock on the steel bearings. It might be worth dropping them and email or calling to see if they can get you the steel bearing version in the short term.

Yeah. Tough call on upgrading to DZero spider or crankset at $680+ vs. new BB:(
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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So by the cups being discard-able, you just mean that they're basically single use? You can't move them back and forth between bikes? That seems like poor design. Maybe I didn't look hard enough or maybe they just added some but it seems bbinfinite actually has some of the steel bb's instock in the red color. Not perfect for the color scheme but its not like it'll be visible anyways I guess.

Thank you for all your help I'll probably just go ahead and order that one! Maybe I'll take the money I saved on the steel one and buy myself a BB press. Any recommendations?

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Last edited by: realbdeal: Mar 13, 19 7:02
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Re: PF30 to GXP: Crank grinding despite spinning decently. What am I doing wrong? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
So by the cups being discard-able, you just mean that they're basically single use? You can't move them back and forth between bikes? That seems like poor design. Maybe I didn't look hard enough or maybe they just added some but it seems bbinfinite actually has some of the steel bb's instock in the red color. Not perfect for the color scheme but its not like it'll be visible anyways I guess.

Thank you for all your help I'll probably just go ahead and order that one! Maybe I'll take the money I saved on the steel one and buy myself a BB press. Any recommendations?

Yes. Most of the OEM PF BB cups are single use. They are plastic and knocking them out usually ruins them. They also just aren't that well made. Much better to go with an aluminum cup system or hybrid aluminum cup with delrin/plastic ring where it meets frame. The screw together aluminum cup BB systems also help with alignment across the DS/NDS. BBInfinite is basically the equivalent here except no flange on one side.

For install BBInfinite will send you some install drifts with a special standoff side drift. See here: http://www.bbinfinite.net/.../GXPInstructions.pdf

Hard to beat the price on this WMF BB press: https://wheelsmfg.com/presses-tools/universal-bottom-bracket-press.html but I'm afraid the included threaded rod is probably too short for the BBInfinite install. It is listed as working for 132mm width where I assume the BBInfinite will be 86mm of BB plus the width of the frame at 86 so in the range of 180mm + drifts and spacers. WMF may be able to substitute a longer threaded rod. Or you could go with the BBInfinite BB install/removal set.
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