Impossible to know how prevalent it is, but it's certainly not zero. I kinda group it into two buckets, those that are specifically taking steroids, epo, etc. to cheat; and those who are taking anti-aging stuff that many of their non-competitive friends are taking and that was prescribed (mostly HGH and testosterone gels/patches). Many of the latter group might not even consider themselves "dopers."

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you can recognize PED use just by someone's appearance?! remarkable!

In our little corner of the world (i.e. Atlantic Canada), there’s really no-one in the masters swim or trathlon community whom I’d suspect of doping.

Except maybe that Zenmaster28 dude. He’s a little shady... ;-)

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

To some extent, yes but typically not swimmers. Walking around my gym in the afternoon and some lifters’ bodies are “unnatural” to borrow a term used by LA to describe fellow riders. It’s a hunch but a good one. However, I would agree that it is hard to spot a swim or triathlon doper just on appearance

As regards appearance as a way to claim swimmers (especially women) are on PED: there might not necessarily a connection to the appearance of a juicer and actual quality swimming at the masters level. Are the jacked swimmers also swimming really well?

N=1 here, but no one would accuse me of looking like a juicer. Not by a long shot. I’ve never taken anything stronger than good coffee at breakfast and a beer with dinner. I’ve been a usms distance champion and top-ten, as well as a world top ten, but I’ve never looked like I juiced, and I never did.

Anyone who has ever been to a masters meet, even the National meets, would see that swimmers are much more diverse in body shape than runners and triathletes. Soft muffin tops can make top triathletes look like absolute clowns in the water.

Its prevalent. Look at some of the anonymous polling done after Ironman events. These sports are all rife with it.

Steroids would be a yes. Look at the traps, they don't respond that well to normal lifting (shrugs, etc.) without 'help'. They have a significant amount of receptors and just explode on the juice. When you see very well developed traps, don't look any further. It's one of the give a ways in 'natural' body building competitions. I've noticed some older professional female swimmers, who attribute their muscular shape and return of past speed to their new found love of weight training. They also have very good trapezius muscles.

I hear rumours about a certain Canadian former pro triathlete turned jacked masters swimmer...

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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

A few years ago I had a former 100 free masters world record holder recruit me for the local masters team and one of the first things he said was that they didn't do any drug testing at masters meets. Why anyone would say this so brazenly is beyond me. I think now USMS tests at nationals but not sure how much. I usually swim at the regional masters championships and would definitely not call it "low key." It's very competitive, with many world, national and regional records broken, but there isn't any testing.

I'd bet a lot of money that many swimmers use PED's. Why would it be different from any other masters sport? I agree, there's little at stake, but that doesn't seem to matter to some people.

Many people believe that if they can get a prescription for "anti-aging" drugs from their doctor, then it's justifiable and their conscious is clear. So ya, I think it's fairly common.

You seem to be correlating body composition with PEDs. I don’t think that’s how it works in the world of doping for endurance sports.

Take EPO for example. What does someone taking EPO look like?

Scott

The accuser in this case made the claim based on the appearance of many of the masters swimmers at the meet, especially the women. I assume then by “juicers,” she claims that these people are take anabolic PED because of how they look.

EPO obviously doesn’t affect appearance, though I’d be really surprised that someone would dope with EPO for masters swimming.

 Apart from a T pizza back or HGH chin it would be hard to tell from appearance but yes I think it is naive to think endurance sports are not rife with PEDs in the age group ranks.

Why??? No disrespect, but you are being incredibly naive.

All these sports are full of people doping, like it or not, and you won't always be able to tell by their appearance.
EPO, various stimulants (ephedrine, inhalers, etc), clen, tramadol. Such a long list of commonly abused substances that will -not- make you look 'jacked'.
And even with steroids, they aren't all about turning you into Arnold, you don't just explode with muscles automatically, it can be subtle. I haven't seen any TDF riders show up looking like a body builder...

Well, your opinion and that of others is why I posted this in the first place. I didn’t think I was naive, at least, not entirely.

As I said, I’ve never had anything stronger than coffee (adding espresso to this claim) for breakfast or a beer with dinner during my training, and I have consumed the same amount of caffeine before my races for the last 25 years since college. I didn’t drink coffee or beer in college.

I assume that those who have beat me in competition have always been better, had better physical gifts (I’m 5’9”/1.75m tall), had better training and racing mentalities, and trained harder. As for them keeping me from medals, places, KQ, etc, I never really cared. As I’ve moved into my mid/late 40’s, I care even less, preferring to accept results as a function of my training and being happy to just get that opportunity.

In masters swimming competition, I’ve been beat head-to-head by Olympic gold medalists Josh Davis and Vladimir Pyshnenko. I just assumed they were so far ahead of me in our primes, that they just maintained the momentum over the last 20+ years. Then again, for those I used to beat in my teens and 20’s, same thing.

Maybe I'm naïve as well, but at least in masters swimming I don't think its reached epidemic proportions, at least not in Canada from what I've seen. There are some taking PED's, sure, but I doubt it's huge.

As for EPO, it doesn't appear to be the PED of choice in swimming. It may be used, and it may be beneficial, but I can't recall any recent cases of a swimmer getting popped for EPO. Other stuff, yes (mostly stimulants and anabolic agents).

This is the list of swimming infractions from USADA - it goes back about 10 years.

Ariola, Grace Swimming Hydrochlorothiazide No Fault of Negligence
Casey, Jack Swimming Anastrozole 6-Month Suspension - Loss of Results
Lochte, Ryan Swimming Non-Analytical: Use (IV) 14-Month Suspension
Kendall, Amanda Swimming Vilanterol 3-Month Suspension - Loss of Results
Alexandrov, Mihail (Mike) Swimming Benzoylecgonine and Methylecgonine 1-Year Suspension - Loss of Results
Lobintsev, Nikita Swimming Meldonium No Fault or Negligence
Tarasevich, Grigory Swimming Meldonium No Fault or Negligence - Loss of Results
Tierney, Sam Swimming Non-Analytical: Use (Vilanterol) Public Warning
Mahoney, Sean Swimming Methylhexaneamine 6-Month Suspension - Loss of Results
Hardy, Jessica Swimming Clenbuterol 1-Year Suspension - Loss of Results
Brunemann, Emily Swimming Hydrochlorothiazide and Triamterene 6-Month Suspension
*Name Removed Swimming Non-Analytical: Refusal to Submit to Sample Collection 4-Year Suspension
*Name Removed Swimming Boldione 2-Year Suspension - Loss of Results
*Name Removed Swimming Non-Analytical: Refusal to Submit to Sample Collection 2-Year Suspension
*Name Removed Swimming Cannabinoids 3-Month Suspension - Loss of Results
*Name Removed Swimming Pseuedoephedrine Public Warning - Loss of Results
*Name Removed Swimming Non-Analytical: Refusal to Submit to Sample Collection 4-Year Suspension - Loss of Results
*Name Removed Swimming Pseuedoephedrine Public Warning - Loss of Results
*Name Removed Swimming Ephedrine 2 Month Suspension - Loss of Results
*Name Removed Swimming 19-norandrosterone 2-Year Suspension - Loss of Results
*Name Removed Swimming Methylphenidate 2-Year Suspension - Loss of Results

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These are the EPO positives over the same time period...

Lopez, Enrique Cycling Erythropoietin (EPO) 4-Year Suspension - Loss of Results 11/12/2018
Guarini, Gabriele Cycling Erythropoietin (EPO) 2-Year Suspension - Loss of Results 09/07/2012
Anthony, David Cycling Erythropoietin (EPO) 2-Year Suspension - Loss of Results 07/25/2012
Robertson, Todd Cycling Erythropoietin (EPO) 2-Year Suspension with 9 Month Reduction - Loss of Results 03/30/2012
O'Bee, Kirk Cycling Erythropoietin (EPO) Lifetime - Loss of Results; Second Violation 10/06/2010
*Name Removed Cycling Erythropoietin (EPO) 2-Year Suspension
*Name Removed Cycling Erythropoietin (EPO) 2-Year Suspension - Loss of Results
*Name Removed Cycling Erythropoietin (EPO) 2-Year Suspension - Loss of Results; Second Violation
*Name Removed Cycling Erythropoietin (EPO) 2-Year Suspension - Loss of Results
Tibau, Gleison Mixed Martial Arts Erythropoietin (EPO) 2-Year Suspension - Loss of Results 02/18/2016
*Name Removed Track and Field Erythropoietin (EPO) 2-Year Suspension - Sanction Modified to Include Loss of Results
*Name Removed Track and Field Erythropoietin (EPO) 2-Year Suspension - Loss of Results
Gough, Nicholas Triathlon Erythropoietin (EPO) 4-Year Suspension - Loss of Results 04/02/2018
Young, Jerome Track and Field Erythropoietin (EPO) and Non-Analytical: Use (EPO & hGH) Lifetime Suspension - Loss of Results Original: 11/10/2004; Updated: 06/17/2008
Diaz, Raul Cycling Erythropoietin (EPO), Dexamethasone 4-Year Suspension - Loss of Results 09/27/2018
Carrillo, Michel Cycling Erythropoietin (EPO); 19‐norandrosterone (19‐NA); Androgenic-anabolic steroids (AAS); Clostebol, Testosterone 4-Year Suspension; Loss of Results 01/18/2019

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Like you, I don’t see the use of EPO to be a huge concern. Most swim practices (for masters) are less than 90 minutes daily, and most events are 200y/m or shorter. Increase in RBC doesn’t necessarily matter as much here, as it would in a road cyclist or 70.3-140.6 triathlete.

But, getting back to the original claim, the swimmer I mentioned said she’d never seen so many juicers. I take that to mean the physical attributes of juicers, therefore PED use like anabolics and androgens.

The other question here is whether those same jacked women were also swimming well. I think that in the ranks of retired people who can spend time working out, they value the look and feel of fitness, and as swimmers, can probably afford it.

Maybe she meant it literally? Were lots of people walking around with bottles of freshly made carrot juice?

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I've only been to Masters Nats once and I felt like a twig in a forest of sequoias. A lot of the guys were southern and western, they swim a lot, they take lifting seriously, they are meticulous about speedwork and power. I don't know. It's tough to blanket say, they've gotta be juicing. But I remember some 50+ even 60+ guys that I'll never look like without .. uhh .. help. But swimmers are often taller, and those with the background are strong guys. There's doping out there, we know it, but it seems to me like a cop-out to take your own shortcomings and just assume anyone faster, stronger, bigger must be cheating. I don't think it's as prevalent as some believe. We've got 300 millions people.. there are good athletes out there.

I kinda felt like that at Worlds in '14. and I'm not a small guy really, at 5'10 and around 200# at the time (194 now!!)

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I think the other thing is that the rumour mill within a sport is a pretty good indicator of how much doping there might be. People notice, and although I wouldn't use the rumour mill to be spreading public allegations about specific individuals, you can talk about it in general terms. In cycling (before 2006 when everyone apparently stopped doping), everyone knew about how rampant doping was. In swimming you can see which programs might be, umm, running afoul of the regulations (smoke.....fire....)

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I think you're forgetting the most likely culprit at any masters sport, testosterone.

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No he isn't. T is an androgen...

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