Two or three times a week and one long weekend ride is perfect! You don't need to add ride time to get the benefits...just ride the PCs the same amount of time you normally ride. You won't be riding the same distance, for a while, but, ride as much as you can. The first few times on the PCs will wipe you out fairly quick.

Therein lies one of the hurdles with PC's. You don't get to push with your quads quite as much as you are used to, and some people feel they lose some quad strength during the initial period. I don't know if I did or not, you just have to push really big gears at a low rpm for the quad work. I worried about knee pain at such low rpms, because I've gotten it in the past with tt work in the lower 80's. Guess what? I didn't get knee pain with PCs. It might be because my hip flexors are hurting so bad I can't feel the knee pain...HA!

Anyway, I've had them for almost 3 months, and switched to regular cranks to get ready for a race on the 22nd. I'm just not adapted well enough on PCs to race on them. I feel like putting PCs back on my bike this weekend for a long ride, because I don't want to miss the benefits I'm getting on the run. The RUN is the first place you benefit, no question about it. The biking benefits are slower coming.

There's no way to explain the differences it's made in my pedal stroke, you just have to experience it and make up your own mind. I did a little 20k tt test today, and I'm almost 2 miles faster this year than last year at this time. I didn't do anything differently other than train on PCs since late December...well, that's not exactly true. This year, I haven't been lifting weights.

I highly recommend that you try them for yourself...it doesn't matter what anybody says, including me. What matters is if you see the benefits. If you are like me, it's the best training thing you've ever experienced...other than being 20 something and having testosterone surge through muscles that have been worked hard, and BOOM!...instantaneous improvement. The sooner you get on them, the sooner you'll adapt, and the better you'll be for the remainder of the season...I'll bet your run will be better after only a week! Seriously.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

This is my expectation and I expect most of those who have seen and reported significant improvement will report the same. I expect you to see the 40% power improvement (on average, ok everyone) with no increased time committment from you.

The reason for this is if you are only riding 5 hours a week now you can't possibly have the power and speed of someone riding 15 hours a week. So, a 40% increase in power (or a 2-3 mph speed improvement) is a lot easier if you are only riding 15 mph now than 23 mph (and actually, a 2-3 mph speed improvement at 23 mph is a smaller percentage power improvement, so quite doable, even in the best).

So, I would be surprised if anyone came forward and said that PC's required an increased time committment to see the benefit (both running and biking). Just put em on and continue with what you're doing (possibly cutting back a little on your run time) AFTER that pesky adjustment period.

BTW, with your limited available time I am not sure even I would predict a Kona slot is in your near future, even if you bought two pair. :-)

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I agree with Ktalon. You do not need to do any extra riding on them. The first few weeks will be very hard. To help get throught initial adaptation quicker, you may want to split your rides into several shorter rides in one day. You should also change your position slightly more upright during that phase.

Your legs will ache like never before during that initial adaptation.

You will likely see increased speed on the run within a matter of a couple weeks. On the bike I did not see much speed improvement for the first 5 months (although I felt much stronger), then in a matter of 1 more month I went from TTing 12 miles at 20 MPH to doing it at 24 MPH.

After initial adaptation, just ride as you always have. I did find that doing some extra spin-ups were beneficial. I also found 1LDs helpful. The PCs made me strong enough to do 1LDs very comfortably, but I still had to concentrate to fully eliminate the dead spots at top & bottom.

For me, I am convinced they are one of the best training purchases I have ever made.

Ktalon,
If you are not racing until the 22nd, put the PCs back on! I found that after about 11 months on them, 1 week on regular cranks made me noticibly sloppier & less powerful.

Goatboy...Oh, yeah! Thanks for putting the note in about dividing the ride up into two or more sessions a day...that's something I did, too...just to get my normal ride time in. And the added benefit of splitting any training up like this is you stimulate your body's recovery mechanism, when it remodels itself most efficiently, more times each day. Good point!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

After one has seen the improvement, how fast is improvement lost (or is it lost?) if one stops using them? Problem with this study will be finding people willing to stop using them and willing to deteriorate if it occurs (which it will, i am quite sure, if the study lasts long enough).

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Re your 1:05 goal over 1:11 last year (another older post) at MAP (now Nations Bank)- looks to me like he has changed the run course from last year.

You don't have to tell me twice! They're back on before my next ride...thanks for your concern! I'll do a long ride this weekend on PC's and a long run, then only one more tweaking ride and short run the week before the race.

I got enough good aero-position riding in to feel comfortable racing anyway...that's the only reason I put regular cranks back on. I LOVE how I'm going uphills faster than I did last year (it's the same old course I always ride, that's how I know)...even at the end of the year when I was riding very well. And it's only MARCH!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Have they? The ride is still the same. I went out Sunday and rode it...I'd suggest anyone that is doing this race to ride it the morning of...there are some nasty holes in the road!

I didn't like the bridge we had to run over...twice...before. I hope they leave that out.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

It all runs together with me, especially since it is very similar, but I think map shows different circuit over same area- I would guess to avoid the run-bike crossover he had.

I just checked the run course out...that nasty little bridge near the fountain in Marshall park is in there, twice. Amazing that I've focused on that one thing to hate about the course! There's more dangerous stuff on the bike course: the holes, manhole covers, uneven surfaces where construction is going on, the neighborhood we go through on Parkwood (three Police cars and two Police helicopters were zipping around us as we rode the course on Sunday)!

Anyway, I'm planning on enjoying the race, it's my daughter's 1st year birthday celebration. Last year, I had the hospital baby ID tag on my wrist for the race. This year, my wife insists that my daughter goes to the race, too, even though she cries when I have my bike helmet on. I hope we'll actually compete in many triathlons together in the future!

I wonder how small PC cranks can be made...

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

[reply]I wonder how small PC cranks can be made...[/reply]

I can drill that hole anywhere. Problem is attaching cleats to her baby shoes. When she starts to get out of line about age 2 or so threaten her with PC's on her tryke. That should keep her in line.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

OK- so I'm very encouraged by the responses so far. I have a couple more follow-on questions. In another post I had asked the question on which I should invest in first- a Computrainer or a tri bike, as I'm currently riding a Trek OCLV. The responses seemed to split 50/50 between "buy the bike" and "work on the engine", so I think I'm going to do both (though not the CT since I'm not made of money). My plan is to buy a tri bike and turn the Trek into a training mule with PC's and also a invest in set of rollers (only riding a trainer right now). This way I get the bike and work on the engine, too.

Question 1: Given that I'll have a bike with PC's and one without, would it be prudent during the adjustment period to gradually phase in PC work and phase out "normal" riding until I eventually get to the point that I can do 100% of the time on PC's, or do I just jump in cold turkey and suffer for a while?

Question 2: I'm planning to do Wildflower LC in 7 weeks, and Vineman at the end of August. Should I wait until after Wildflower to begin using PC's? I'm assuming that if I did this, the adjustment period is short enough that it shouldn't impact my training for Vineman.

Question 3: My riding style is definitely more spinning than gear mashing. Last ride was 23 miles at 22.1 mph (avg) @ 99 rpm (avg) in zone 2 HR (not including warm up and cool-down) I'm assuming that PC's are equally applicable to spinners and gear mashers alike, though I've heard some people comment that keeping a high cadence with PC's is difficult. I don't want to turn myself into a masher- is there a longer adaptation period for people accustomed to riding at a higher cadence?

Thanks for all the input
-John

As for question #3, my race cadence has dropped from 95-105 pre-PC's to 83-90 after using PC's. I doubt anyone would call me a "masher". I'm very happy with my new, slower, and smoother pedal stroke. I can still jam along in the higher cadences, but I now prefer the slower ones.

1. I think it is best (and quickest) to go cold turkey, but either way will do.

2. If you go cold turkey you will see improved run at WF and even though you will worry about it will probably not see a slowing in your bike (unless you choose to race on the PC's where you may be lucky to finish).

3. Even though you may find your cadence dropping some, the last thing you will think the PC's are doing is turning you into a masher. It is possible to concentrate on high cadences in the beginning but most prefer to concentrate on time and distance, which reuires dropping cadence for awhile. So, I will make one more guarantee, PC's will not turn you into a masher.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

a fine discussion. i would only add that i am glad ktalon put his back on - i was wondering what in the heck he was doing switching them 2 weeks before the event !

Dr. Day, I need to find out a way to get my daughter to want to ride PC's as a treat instead of a punishment...she's got such a tender personality I'm afraid I'll never have to punish her more than just a stern look. I bet she'll ride them just to "be like Daddy".

T-t-n, I just needed to get flat-backed aero for several rides, which I'm not able to do on PCs...yet. Something about the aero position works the backs of my legs differently...from my calves all the way up to my lower back. It took me about 3 rides to "get used to it", and now I've convinced myself I'm going to be able to stay down comfortably. SO, it's back to the PCs.

I certainly don't want to go through the pain and humiliation of that initial adaptation again! I will put the regular cranks back on for my final tune-up ride before the race (unless my Carbo gets here in time!)...to get the front derailler set just right...it's setting changes just a hair between the two cranksets. Then, it's back to PCs full-time again...no question about it. I have my first straight TT on April 7 or 8, it's only 10 miles, I'll just have to see if I'm able to stay down with PCs by then. I doubt it, though, unless I have a big breakthrough, a la Goatboy. But, it took him 5 months to get that sudden improvement.

It will be wonderful when, one day, I'm able to stay in the aero position for an entire race on PCs...I can see how that would be faster...especially when fatigued, with the acccompanying tendancy to be sloppy, near the end of a long bike leg.

Today should be a rest day, but I might gently ride with PCs on the trainer for 20 minutes just to make those hip flexors remember that the crazy drill sargent hasn't gone AWOL after all, and they'd better stay sharp! BTW, I did an interval run workout for the first time this year on Tuesday. If my times are any indication compared to last year, I'll run sub 23 on the 5K in this triathlon. Last year, I ran a 25-something. I haven't run nearly as much this year...just been PCing.

All this talk about going under 1:05 compared to my 1:11 last year isn't worth anything. It's the performance that counts...I'll know for certain what the performance improvement is on the 22nd....I know I'll improve, just don't know by how much....1:02:30 would be quite nice. There, I said it! Let's see if I can do it. That might get me 3rd place...last year I was...well, NOT third place.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

i was in a similiar situation as you. I have a trek 5200 as my racing bike and was thinking about getting power cranks or a computrainer. I got the pc's in mid dec and love them. They have helped my biking and running so much. I rode outside for the first time all winter with regular cranks and was easily going 23-25 mph for a hour or so, much faster than I was last summer. Like yourself I am more of a spinner, but had no problem getting a high cadence on pc's from the begining 85-90 for the first week of use. As for my running it is getting much better, 55 min for a ten miler. I love the power cranks and highly reccomend them.

mike

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http://www.MikeCaiazzo.com
http://www.USProTri.com

Thanks Mike! Glad to hear that they are working so well for you, and everyone else that's commented here. I can hold 22-23 mph on the bike now, but my 1/2 marathon pace is ~8:00/mi, so I'm REALLY looking forward to the running improvement. One last question and I'll knock it off. I've got a triple on the Trek right now. I'm assuming I need to get the PC's in the Shimano triple?

Thanks again to everyone for all the good advice.

-John

Not necessarily. Unless you live in a REALLY hilly area (with STEEP hills) you will find you will soon have enough power than you can ride up almost anything in a 38 or 39 chain ring. Just get the triple if you need the "reassurance" that it is there if you need it.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

KTalon,
If you are planning to ride in a position that you cannot ride the PCs in, you will not pedal the same way that you pedal your PCs. I would consider trying to find a position on your tri bike that you could ride with PCs even if you don't use them for the race.

My own personal definition of steep is in the 10-12% grade range, and there are plenty of those where I ride (San Jose bay area). As I metioned earlier, I much prefer spinning, and I can still manage a cadence of 85-90 rpm in the 32-25 on a 12% grade. That's primarily why I've kept the triple. My question is more of a hardware setup question, though. Would I need to replace the STI shifter and front der. if I went with a double on the PC's? If so, for cost reasons, and for the ability to put the regular triple crank back on if I needed it, I'd probably opt for going with the PC's in a triple, also.

You should not have to change your shifter or anything else if you go for either the double or triple. I haven't received any feedback from anyone that this has been a problem.

The only problem I have heard about along these lines came from a customer in Hong Kong whose small chain ring in his triple set up was mounted to the middle chainring (instead of to the spider) and there was a interference problem. I had never seen such a set up and he would have to modify my spider some to make it work. Based upon the pictures he sent me this could be easily done in any home workshop, I am sure, without affecting strength or reliability.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Goatboy wrote:
"If you are planning to ride in a position that you cannot ride the PCs in, you will not pedal the same way that you pedal your PCs. I would consider trying to find a position on your tri bike that you could ride with PCs even if you don't use them for the race."

I agree totally with the first statement, but I'm not so sure about the second. I have been on PC's since mid December, and I have no problem going as fast or faster than I did pre-pc, riding the hoods on my road setup, unless I hit a headwind. If I hit a strong headwind, I *need * my aerobars, but I can't yet stay in them for long on pc's. It is for this reason alone that I plan on racing on regular cranks, at least until I can stay aero on them for the race distance. In other words, until I can stay aero, I think I have more to gain by staying aero than I lose by giving up a bit of pedaling efficiency. That said, I do plan on riding at my lower "pc" cadence using the same gear choices I use when pc'ing.