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PC's and Running
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I posted on one of the other tri forums that although pc's have helped my biking that they have not helped in my running. Frank suggested that I posted here and ask for some feedback. My running has actually improved a tad in my workouts but it less then about 10 seconds a mile.

I have been riding my pc's since December of 02. Ave 3 times a week the long beeing about 60 miles which I have done on numerous occasions. I rode them exclusively until July when I took them off the final three weeks before my 1/2 Ironman. observations.

My biking improved about 6 minutes for a 40km ride.

My usual cadence for pc's is about 86-88. Regular cranks about 92.

Running off regular cranks was a struggle. Every race was slower then the year before.

Running off of pc's was much easier. times were about the same as if didn't ride previous, only done in workouts.

Changed over to pose style of running in dec 02. feels better but litttle improvement.

Struggle with aero postion. partly due to config of rode bike vs tri bike.

pc on road bike. regular cranks on tri bike.

5th year of training, running stabalized in year 3 bike and swim continue to improve 45yo.

Some high cadence work done on trainer and outside. Now I am trying low cadence high resistance on trainer. Seems to help my ave cadence when I go back to it.

Running is my weakest part of my event.

Keep knees in and toes up when pc'ing

Any feedback is appreciated

Joe
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Re: PC's and Running [joetri] [ In reply to ]
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couple of questions:

1. What is/was your biking and running pace now (or pre PC)?
2. What distances are you trying to race? Oly? 1/2 IM? IM?
3. How often do you ride regular cranks?
4. When you raced did you pay attention to what your cadence was during your bike leg compared to your PC training?
5. When you raced did you go back to the aero position you can't ride on the PC's?

enough for now.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: PC's and Running [joetri] [ In reply to ]
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Give us a normal week's training in base, build and peak.

It is too easy to hammer the bike and leave nothing in the tank for run maintenance or improvement. Have your running workouts changed since you got the cranks?

What is your height and weight? Has it changed? -- well, weight anyway :-)

If running used to get worse with normal cranks and now doesn't get worse with the PCs on, why don't you think the PCs are helping?

matt

"When I cleaned up my diction, I had nothing left to say" -- Van Morrison
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Re: PC's and Running [joetri] [ In reply to ]
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Because people have had trouble pinpointing exactly why PCs help running, I think you will get little more than some good guesses in answer to your question.

There are several things I can think of but you don't give me enough background.

1) Are you comparing paces for similar events & similar times of year? It is January. I expect to be slower than I was in July when I peaked, but I am much faster than last January. I still run 2 hour runs slower than I would race a 5k 3 years ago, but I am much, much faster than a 2 hour run in Jan 01.

2) 10 sec/ mile can be pretty significant. You also said that you are running the same pace after riding as you used to fresh. This is a significant change.

3) You don't indicate how often you run. I would not expect to see improvement w/out a fair bit of running also.

4) What is you normal cadence when you are running and is this something you work on? I think that the PCs give you leg strength to be able to increase run cadence and maintain it. But run cadence does not increase on it's own. Best method is to do high cadence stuff both on PCs and while running.
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Re: PC's and Running [Goatboy] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Because people have had trouble pinpointing exactly why PCs help running, I think you will get little more than some good guesses in answer to your question.

There are several things I can think of but you don't give me enough background.

1) Are you comparing paces for similar events & similar times of year? It is January. I expect to be slower than I was in July when I peaked, but I am much faster than last January. I still run 2 hour runs slower than I would race a 5k 3 years ago, but I am much, much faster than a 2 hour run in Jan 01.
Yes I am comparing exact same races and training at the same time. Running of course is slower in Jan when not in peak.
2) 10 sec/ mile can be pretty significant. You also said that you are running the same pace after riding as you used to fresh. This is a significant change. When I do a brick on the PC's and run at Aet I can run the same speed.

3) You don't indicate how often you run. I would not expect to see improvement w/out a fair bit of running also. Usually three times a week, 1 long, 1 threshold and 1 other and possible an extra short brick here or there.

4) What is you normal cadence when you are running and is this something you work on? I think that the PCs give you leg strength to be able to increase run cadence and maintain it. But run cadence does not increase on it's own. Best method is to do high cadence stuff both on PCs and while running. I have worked on cadence and form quite a bit with the pose stuff. I am presently focusing on olympic and 1/2's I have actually lost a few pounds last year and height has not increased me race cadence is a tad higher on normal cranks then on pc's yes I have probaly pushed the bike a bit too much. $$$fact that remains on training runs with strict protocol speed has not increased any significant amount with exclusive use of pc's. This is not meant to be a criticism but an observation Joe
Last edited by: joetri: Jan 14, 04 17:59
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Re: PC's and Running [joetri] [ In reply to ]
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Joe,

A couple of thoughts.

1. I think you simply need more time. You have improved, just not as much as you thought you would based on some of the extraordinary reports you have heard (and, of course, which I emphasize). In addition, you have improved in training but not in rcing so see below.

2. You have instituted two new training regimens, PC's and Pose. I can see that could complicate things but I see them as complimentary (as I understand it) and I think when you get POSE down, PC's will only make it better.

3, If you are racing at higher cadences than you can train PC's then your legs will be relatively wasted come run time, which will slow you down. Now that you are into your second season on the PC's work on PC cadence and continue to work on PC endurance and I think you will see improvement this year if you can race like you train. Make sure your bike set up is similar PC and race as that could mess things up also.

4. One more thing. The way you answered goatboy it was not clear to me that you answered - I thought you posted by mistake before you answered and I was waiting for you to correct it. Try to set your answers apart next time.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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