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Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!)
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Let's talk about your experiences with some real Triathlon coaches! I want to hear if you got your $ worth! Friel? E-grip? Training Bible.com? Niles? Multisports.com (Frey/Huddle)? Etc, etc, etc.?

Also, recommendations for Ironman training?
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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My coach is Mike Plumb.

Great guy, great coach. I've seen improvments, and lots of them.

Email me directly if you want more info.
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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I used Michael Mccormack (coach to Karen Smyers, Gina Kehr, etc) while training for Great Floridian. His motto is quality over quantity and if you train slow, you race slow. He's also a big believer in indoor trainers, especially Computrainer. His workouts were hard and INTENSE, but not long. Typically 45 minutes - 1 hr on the bike during the week. Intervals on the bike followed often by intervals on the track. I got fast but I also got overtrained. His success rate is pretty good if you look at the athletes, pros and age groupers, so he's doing something right. www.triathloncoach.com. He's worth checking out.
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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I use a local coach here in NJ, Don Fink, who is one of the best Masters IM racers out there. I got lucky in that I got in early, he's got a hell of a waiting list now. I absolutely believe I get my money's worth (and then some), and because he is local I can call him on the phone, set up 1 on 1 sessions with him and all that. I wholeheartedly endorse the idea of a coach; the results I've seen have been far more impressive than training on my own.





"To give less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." - Pre

MattMizenko.com
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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It's kind of like comparing apples and oranges. Most coaches are quite good and you'll get your money's worth, but do you and the coach "click"? Does his/her methods or program work for you? Those are the important questions, not has Joe Blow had success with them. Case in point: Chris Carmichael and Lance are a perfect fit. CC and Peter Reid weren't.

That said, I have personal experience with the following and have success with all: Julieanne White; Roch/Huddle and Multisports.com; Gordo Byrn; Michael McCormick. I know others who have had excellent results from Mike Plumb, Kevin Purcell and Rich Strauss (both with Friel), Scott Molina, Mark Allen, Duane Franks (NorCal), Phil Casanta (NorCal).

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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I tried trainingbible.com for 3 months and it is good. The only downfall I had was getting online to figure workouts. Thats why I stopped. I found it easier just to use paper and pencil and follow his training guidelines out of his book. They are the same I just dont have to be online to schedule or reference them.
If you want a generic Free Ironman training plan you can get one at trienwbies.com. I used their half plan for a reference and it will definitely get you there, but even better if you adapt it to your weak/strong points.

[/quote]
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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My coach is Brendon Downey whom has coached probably most notably Jill Savege in the past. He's been great for me thus far, and his cost will beat anybody.

brendondowney.com

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Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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I have used one on-line coaching system in particular in the past and found that it did not suit me very well. I chose a coach based only on his credentials and forked out major cash (just under $400/month) for what amounted to someone putting workouts on a website and me saying I did them. I needed someone to help me with my stroke technique, someone to evaluate my bike position, someone to help me with my diet, someone to help me schedule my workouts around my already hectic life and someone to tell me when I had done too much. The on-line coach only helped with the last of these and I often felt extremely overtrained. (Incidentally, I was told this was expected when training for an IM.) I leave off the name here simply out of respect for this coach. I'm sure that he has helped others, but he wasn't what I needed.

In summary, I'm just trying to warn people against signing on with a coach simply because some of his professional athletes have succeeded. No coach is suited to every athlete!

_______________
-Jay in SL, MI
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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besides Brendon is a kiwi...so US dollars are like gold :-)

say hi to Brendon...when I was on the gold coast, he was still at the runaway bay sports center (I lived in runaway bay) but I heard he was going back to NZ. is that the case?
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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I used TriMyCoach (Sonni Dyer, et.al.),...very good for beginners. They get you set up and monitoring yourself by heartrate, and tend to be on the low-heartrate, lower intensity training side of the continuum than some programs I've seen. They did get me out of the 85% max heartrate training all the time mode I was in. I DID get faster than I thought I would training at low heartrates. However, I strayed into the world of very hard intervals, and not so much of the lower heartrate realm, and my results got even better. Currently, I have a particular set of cranks kicking my tail every time I have a lazy "recovery" pedal stroke...hardest, most intense, unrelenting coach I've ever had! I love my new coach!



Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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yeah brendon is in Auckland now working at the Millenium Institute of Sport and Health. I'm going up to see him and get underwater video taped next week probably.

I'll tell him you said hi.

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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Allan Besselink @ smartsportintl.com. Unlimited e-mail/phone contact and very reasonable rates. A physical therapist by trade. He takes less is more to an art-form. I've struggled with him over the decrease in volume but its hard to argue the results, 2 races and 2 PR's thus far (4 months).
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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Ok. This is a test! Why should I use Ms. White? I've been thinking about a coach, but am a tight wad and have to be convinced. On the one hand, as slow as I am one would think ANY coach could have positive results with my body; on the other hand, at age 60 how could I possibly improve much more?

This coaching business strikes me as a really delicate and difficult matter. I don't think anyone has fully explicated all the variables, at least not to my satisfaction.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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why ms. white?

1. she'll email you within 24 hours of your emailing her. always.
2. she'll correspond with you as often as you need it and, as opposed to quite a few other coaches, she's not happy when you don't correspond; she's concerned and she'll tell you so.
3. she's been-there-done-that, with 9:08 in canada and 9:21 in kona, and still holds bike and run course records all over the place almost a decade after retiring from triathlon.
4. she's still being-there-and-doing-that, as one of the top women's masters runners on the U.S. road race circuit.
5. she's got proven results with her athletes, pro and AG alike, and she'll be happy to give you references, as many as you want.
6. she's especially adept working with those who have tight schedules and/or need to work around unique problems.
7. pursuant to point #6 above, she's got a knack for picking up the road kill strewn on the multisport landscape--the casualties of self-coached or badly-coached--and turning careers back around.
8. she caps her load at a dozen athletes per season.
9. she's not really that expensive, and will try to work within your budget. she doesn't charge you for your off-season, and she makes you take an off-season.
10. she's got a more organic approach than you'll usually find in the coaching world; she knows how to properly apply therapies, nutrition, etc., better than the garden-variety coach.
11. with her workout weeks are like chess games: no two are ever alike. you'll get your workouts a week in advance. perhaps two weeks in the exception. that's because she won't know which workouts to give you unless she knows how you responded to the past week's workouts.
12. she's not building an empire. she's not hiring coaches underneath her that she must manage. she's not got other, more pressing profit centers and time constraints. she cares about your performances. she's glued to her computer all day long when there's an ironman in progress, looking for the splits and finish times of her athletes.

other than those dozen reasons, i can't think why you'd want her as your coach.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [mjpwooo] [ In reply to ]
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Ditto, you won't find a better coaching value than tripower.org.





John
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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As past president of two chess clubs I can easily relate to the difficulties both the coach and athlete encounter in balancing the many training variables. Unlike chess, however, coaching doesn't have a rating system! :), j/k

Also, chess has a FINITE set of variables! :)

Anyway, that was an impressive list in support of Ms. White. But, I have a feeling that with Julie as my coach I'd be like the recreational rider who shows up for a tempo ride wearing a Cipo kit. Le Poseur. Or, like going squirrel hunting with an elephant gun.... I just don't feel worthy. Anyway, it isn't really just the money, it's the fear and loathing in my "heart of darkness" that every time I go to a race the guys are going to say: "And he has a coach! Bwuahahaha!!" Coming from the Midwest, where pretense is crushed like a CAT IV in an Open race, I try to be slow making a fool of myself. And, at my age it gets easier by the minute.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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I use Kevin Wilson in Ottawa, Canada. He and his partner Ken Brunet are exercise physiologist (not triathletes) and they work with many types of power and endurance athletes. If you want someone to teach you the tricks on how to be a better triathlete (eg. transitions, technique stuff etc.) then they are not for you. If you want someone who uses excellent physiological testing techniques and training based upon these assessments then these two would be great. They base all their training on progressive workload to max tests with blood lactate measurements. These don't have to be done on site. They can mail you a kit and you can have a friend run the test with you (as long as you have access to either a computrainer or a treadmill). I also think you would pretty much have to have a computrainer to train on to get the most of their expertise because they prefer using power over heart rates.

Kevin has been great with contact. It seems like I could phone him everyday and he would be interested in addressing my concerns. Several times last season he totally revised a monthly plan due to my needs.

They are on line at http://www.peakcentre.ca

Personally I liked the physiological approach (lactates and power are better than heart rate as measures of workload) and wanted the time I spent to be as effective as possible.

I went 9:53 at Ironman Canada (first ironman race) and qualified for Hawaii where I went 10:24. Totally blew my expectations away. I have no problem recommending them.

Whomever you pick, make sure they fit you.

Richard
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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ahh see then you need a sport psychologist---cause youre being prevented from improving based on ego. Youre concerned about what others are going to say about you, react to you, how you'll be perceived etc. This is one of the toughest things I deal with--is dropping the ego. Its very vulnerable. You dont have to tell anyone you've got a coach or whom it is or that you pay $375 a month or thereabouts.

I think the question to ask yourself is what is my goal for triathlons----finish an oly dist race? and IM? qualify for kona? do a tri with an open water swim? etc. And then ask yourself do i know how to get myself there without wasting time, getting injured, peaking at the wrong time etc. I dont think many people know how to do that---i know i could be better at it, and thats why i got a coach. You dont have to get one coach or another. Heck you dont have to get one at all.

Depending on your goals, you could be successful without a coach, many people have. I doubt Dave Scott had a coach when he won kona back in '80. I know Carol Montgomery doesnt believe in them. But thats proabably the exception rather than the rule.

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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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if you were to consider the range of ironman times of the athletes with whom she works, they span eight hours, that is, from 8-low to just-making-the-cutoff. i would suspect median time of a julie-coached-athlete is right about 12:30. you can determine where you fit in there. one thing, tho. they didn't start out at their current respective speeds. last year one english guy went from 14-and-change to 10-and-change in the span of one ironman, and qualified for kona.

i don't know what to say about the social ramifications of having a coach. i had one as a freshman in high school. didn't seem to bother me. but i know what you mean.

there are a couple of cases i remember that were pretty satisfying to me to watch develop, just as an onlooker. they both involved wives of good multisport athletes who employed her as a coach. of course you can imagine what happened. within a year or two the wives were beating their husbands, and this created a whole additional set of issues.

you'd either have to suck it up and deal with the peer pressure of admitting you have a coach, or just keep the dirty little secret to yourself.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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Ah Robert, you need to just get over yourself. I am a native Midwesterner (born and raised in Kansas). I am not Cipo-like at all, in fact, very often, at the back of the pack. Julieanne coached me to my first (and still only) Ironman finish and treated me as well as any pro. If you do a little digging, my race report may still be somewhere on this site.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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Robert,

I've seen you finish 2 IM's and in my book poser is the last thing that comes to mind. Respect, is the first thing that comes. You had a better race this year, whose to say that you can't keep getting better? Harder may not be the ticket, smarter (coach) may be just what you need.
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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You guys don't understand because you still have mother's milk in your mouths.

My neighbors, whose average age is about 75, think I am absolutely loony. (Ok, it isn't entirely because I dress in funny clothes!) Do I care? Well, yes and no. I do care what others think about many issues, including me. To say otherwise would be foolish and is the sort of over self-absorption I try to avoid. (Although, triathletes must be the MOST self absorbed jocks I've ever met.) I don't let their views control my life, but I try to listen to and consider even the most repulsive of views. When I was young I thought listening was a sign of caring, though now I realize I've really always done it because I'm usually at least amused, but often astounded by the views I hear. But, the real point is this: how realistic is it for a guy my age to have a coach? No one can answer that question except me, ultimately, but plenty of folks have opinions. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of guys logging on here do not have a coach and many would have some of the same concerns I have.

Anyway, when a high school kid signs up for track he expects a coach. A recreational, VERY MATURE adult, doesn't expect a coach, and I would venture to say that the overwhelming majority of age-groupers would think a 60 year old having a coach is the dumbest thing they'd ever heard. Maybe I'm wrong. When I was 40 I was so interested in winning I would have done it. At 60, winning is defined as getting to the race with all your equipment! And, I have so many sports injuries from baseball, wrestling, ski racing, motorcycle racing, bike racing, track, tennis, weight lifting, etc. that getting out of bed can sometimes be a major feat. Right now I'm totally blasted from training with my buddy on weights. I can barely move. (As a somewhat humorous aside I should note that he is an ex world power lifting champion and he does give me quite a few "tips". :) )

Another problem is many younger people are not comfortable with ambivalence. I spent my life dealing with people and employees so I'm always trying to find the seventh side to a "box" argument! I'm not just ambivalent about winning, I have a hundred different views, at least, on what really comprises the essence of sport. To me, playing is much more important than winning, and sometimes I just want to play at a very low intensity, although I still have enough of a spark of competitive spirit to show up for the races. Most guys my age have almost ZERO competitive spirit. Count and compare the number of entrants in my age group versus the 40-45 age group. Almost all the guys who are left racing at 60 are very competitive and fit. Many of them will beat the bottom half of the 40-45 age group because that group is filled with out of shape middle aged males. But, the majority of guys my age just quit racing and training and head for the shuffle board courts in St. Pete. :), j/k (Yes, injuries, illness, and death take a large percentage, but most of the guys just have no desire. One 70 year old said to me: "Why should I keep doing this?" I responded: "If you don't have an answer, you shouldn't be doing it!")

I am a strong believer in the power of a great coach. I knew several great coaches, including a personal friend who was an NFL coach, and they have my undieing admiration and loyalty. For young athletes I think a coach is ESSENTIAL. If I were 20-40 and very serious about racing I would not be training myself. (I believe the parallel is the lawyer who represents himself in court. He has an idiot for a client!) Only a coach can have the psychic distance to tell you when you are making a major training error. The self-trained guys like Dave Scott are very rare. I'll bet for every Dave Scott there are a thousand DEAD SCOTTS who have made stupid training errors that interrupted their training or worse.

As for Ms. White, I've read everything she's written here, and I hold her in the highest regard. If I get a coach and she is available, I couldn't think of a better person. This may sound sexist but I suspect for obsessive compulsive male triathletes a female coach might have some of the qualities that are essential for "staying alive". (with apologies to the BeeGees)

All of which misses the point I was really trying to get to, I guess inartfully, which is: "When do you need a coach?"

Sorry for the long, boring post.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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Cathy:

I had already read your race report!

That's why I asked YOU the question.

I think last October I posted a message about the near miniscule number of females who have completed an IM. Something like 0.000013% of American females! For me, that puts your finish in perspective, regardless of how well you placed, which is irrelevant. (I'd like to pause her for a comment about what appears at first blush to be politically correct banter. I really do believe that the heart and soul of ALL sport is the age-grouper who is out there using his/her body the way God intended, i.e., vigorously. Regardless of result. Winning or placing high has too much emphasis in my view.)

Ok, Toto, are we still in Kansas? :),

-Robert, who is almost over himself.

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [Chappy] [ In reply to ]
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Chappy: This may sound corny, but having the Tribe at the finish line really was an uplifting experience, particularly this year with that grueling bike course. Yes, after a 13 year layoff I'm almost back in shape! I'm doing IM FL this year so I probably will do the Half GFT as a tuneup. But, I'm going to stick around and root all you guys to the finish line.

I'm getting so serious about this stuff that getting a coach has been on my mind for several months. But, I feel a bit stupid for considering it.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!) [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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the answer to the question, "when do you need a coach?" is, "when you want to have one." it's the same answer i'd give to him who asks, "when do you need a jaguar?"

you're 60 years old, and a triathlete. you've earned the right to be self-absorbed, haven't you? i'm 45 and i've decided to take early self-absorption.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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