If you two were face to face (during the FIST camp), why in the heck are you having this argument over FIST on an internet forum?
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Re: One Silly Question for Gerard and Demmerly [bunnyman]
[ In reply to ]
Gerard and I had a rock fight in front of Dan's house while Val, Dan, Dan of Toronto, Fiona, Bill, Hank, Mark, Mike and everyone cheered us on. Being an excellent rock fighter I pegged old Gerard right in the noggin with a big old Xantusia rock. But Gerard is bigger than me, and he knocked me down and swung me around by the heels. Then they made me sleep outside. I think Dan (and Gerard's) intention was to feed me to the Xantusia lizards out there in the desert. When that failed, they tried gassing me in Mark's camper. Other than that, it was a great class. Seriously though, it was good to be face to face with everyone at FIST and discuss a lot of interesting (and some not so interesting) topics and hear everyone's thoughts and concerns. A take-away I got from intereacting with Gerard is that he is a fearsome taskmaster when it comes to quality control.
Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
Re: One Silly Question for Gerard and Demmerly [Tom Demerly]
[ In reply to ]
And I was going to toss him in the Endless Pool, but it was empty due to a leak. And when I wanted to really hurt him the next morning, he had already left. I think he was scared :-)
I think what you saw in the thread was a bit of the FIST spirit coming out. The debates were quite heated at some times, in fact I was a bit amazed about how gracious slowman was in allowing us all to question every word in the manual.
This may come as a shock to all (:-), but Dan and I are both a little opinionated, and that clashes. At one point I was a bit worried that I'd gone too far, but Dan seemed to be of the opinion that this first FIST had to be like this so the next ones can be even better. And I certainly hope that all who were there can see a bit of themselves in the next version of the manual.
Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
I think what you saw in the thread was a bit of the FIST spirit coming out. The debates were quite heated at some times, in fact I was a bit amazed about how gracious slowman was in allowing us all to question every word in the manual.
This may come as a shock to all (:-), but Dan and I are both a little opinionated, and that clashes. At one point I was a bit worried that I'd gone too far, but Dan seemed to be of the opinion that this first FIST had to be like this so the next ones can be even better. And I certainly hope that all who were there can see a bit of themselves in the next version of the manual.
Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
Re: One Silly Question for Gerard and Demmerly [gerard]
[ In reply to ]
i was very lucky. i had two people in the workshop that nailed me down on different ends of the spectrum. rich strauss, who posts here (and posted about the azoto saddle) wanted a much more precise, step by step, written description of the fit process i advocate. fiona gray and dan rishworth of enduro sport nailed me down on glossing over elements of fit that, while covered adequately under any decent road bike fit seminar, are of such import that i can't assume they'll be properly addressed by the tri bike fitter.
in each of these cases more precision is needed in the description of my process. also in each of these cases, and in all the cases, while everyone had their opinions, all were gracious in their expression of them.
all of this will make it into the next edition of the companion FIST manual, which was about 48 pages for this workshop and will probably e 60 pages for the next one.
what will NOT change, yet, is the discussion, which i suspect will be ongoing for awhile, on precisely which nomenclature will rule when it comes to bike sizing. but what is CERTAIN to change is the size nomenclature, and i would be shocked if all the usual bike maker suspects did not include in their brochures or on their websites either stack and reach, or head tube and top tube normalized to a particular seat angle, or something else that is similar, by this fall.
i would also expect, tho i did not originally envision this, to start seeing tri bike companies represented in the FIST workshop attendee list. it's probably more critical to them than to anyone to start making (or keep making) bikes that both fit properly and are named properly. it's the good dealers who know how to fit bikes, on the average. the bike makers in general aren't out there fitting people to their own bikes, and so they don't understand the problems they're creating for their own primary customers.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
in each of these cases more precision is needed in the description of my process. also in each of these cases, and in all the cases, while everyone had their opinions, all were gracious in their expression of them.
all of this will make it into the next edition of the companion FIST manual, which was about 48 pages for this workshop and will probably e 60 pages for the next one.
what will NOT change, yet, is the discussion, which i suspect will be ongoing for awhile, on precisely which nomenclature will rule when it comes to bike sizing. but what is CERTAIN to change is the size nomenclature, and i would be shocked if all the usual bike maker suspects did not include in their brochures or on their websites either stack and reach, or head tube and top tube normalized to a particular seat angle, or something else that is similar, by this fall.
i would also expect, tho i did not originally envision this, to start seeing tri bike companies represented in the FIST workshop attendee list. it's probably more critical to them than to anyone to start making (or keep making) bikes that both fit properly and are named properly. it's the good dealers who know how to fit bikes, on the average. the bike makers in general aren't out there fitting people to their own bikes, and so they don't understand the problems they're creating for their own primary customers.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Re: One Silly Question for Gerard and Demmerly [gerard]
[ In reply to ]
You guys should have videotaped your discussions. Seriously, I bet more than a few people on this board would pay a few bucks to watch and learn (or just giggle).
"Fox is proud to present the world's first tri-reality series: XANTUSIA!"
It would sure beat the heck out of "Joe Millionaire".
Dave in WI
-----------------------------------------------------
"What you once were isn't what you want to be anymore" - Wilco
"Fox is proud to present the world's first tri-reality series: XANTUSIA!"
It would sure beat the heck out of "Joe Millionaire".
Dave in WI
-----------------------------------------------------
"What you once were isn't what you want to be anymore" - Wilco
They all made fun of me for posting way too much on slowtwitch. I had it coming.....
Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com