which part of if she didn't drive the train (1) her group would not have caught abbott and (2) the 2nd chase group would have caught her group (so she would have had to fight it out with 6 other women for 2 medals) do you not understand? the fact that you have throw in some sexist malarkey was strange.

We got Paul Sherwin and Christian Vandevelde. Sherwin basically focuses on any English speaking rider, so the USA, USA, USA gets diluted with talk about the Brits and Aussies. Vandevelde is a mush mouth and basically slurs every thing together. He really needs to work on slowing his speaking down.

Why was it her responsibility to finish closing it on her own? The other two riders had just as much to lose by not catching the American. All three of them cooperated and closed it to touching distance until that last km when the Italian showed her willingness to do it alone. Tactically she had to force the others to keep working or concede victory which is what she did. You never see that in men's road racing unless there is some sort of ulterior motive for the person to use themselves up. You'd either assume there was a trade team relationship (maybe there is?) or the person was paid off.

Thank you! That guy was about as much of a downer on Abbot as you could find. Give the underdog some cred, that was an awesome ride. And yeah, little too much rooting for the person who was way back.

I'm still confused by your logic. So your calling her out for doing enough work to make sure she gets a medal. You suggest she should have sat in more and sprint for 2nd-4th instead of 1st-3rd?

To sit in and essentially likely miss a medal?

Eta: the girl just got a medal in the Olympics and we have people calling her for insider trading. Only in the reality world of ST is that possible.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

No, she should have tried to force the other 2 to continue to work with her to finish closing the gap to Abbot. That way they would have all been approximately in an equal state of fatigue and she would have had a chance in the sprint for gold. Could have been they would have messed around and refused to work, but she had to at least try or else she was throwing the race away, which is what she did.

Abbott, Johansson, Longoborghini all ride for Wiggle High5. So in that light they basically enacted an Etixx vs. Stannard scenario ;) Purely trade teams you don't ride of course, unless you have a female Sagan coming up from behind. I agree you have to be willing to lose in order to win but getting on the podium counts a little bit more in the Olympics than at any other race, you do get to bring home some kind of hardware (look at the men's race yesterday, all three medallists were happy). And the other saying is, you have to be at the front in order to win the race ;)

A) In case you missed it, she actually did have a chance to sprint for GOLD at the finish.

B) If they all refused to work, my A point would never had happened. They caught her and sprinted 11s from the finish.

ETA: I just completely disagree with your point that she rode poorly. The finish allowed her to finish on podium and *atleast* attempt to go for gold versus cat fighting over sprinting for silver at best. To bring up all that after that bike race, yawn.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Sorry, I have to roll my eyes at the Internet guy main-splaining to the bronze medallist that she's "tactically naive."

That's good to know

So what you guys doing in Mokum tonite?

Also do please tell me you at least picked Anna VdB on the podium. Otherwise i would seem like the one rooting for Dutch cycling

I still think you were drunk, but you did call it. Nice work.

Ermmm you know what the first B in BBC stands for right? You are surprised that the commentator paid for by the British TV license payer was making an effort to keep the British public informed about their native competitor?

Great race. LIZZIE gave it a good punt trying to balance effort on the climb with keeping something for the finish, didn't quite work out. Gutted for Abbot after a gutsy ride. Double gutted for van Vleuten.

Do you watch professional cycling?

I did, I did: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6031856#p6031856

As far as what's going on in Amsterdam tonight.... there's this thing called "Canal Pride" going on this weekend. I'm sure they're all having a good time, but not because they're cycling enthusiasts ;)

Holland Heineken House should be wild tonight if anyone is in Rio.

Update: Van Vleuten has a concussion and three cracks in her spine. She is in Intensive Care. http://nos.nl/l/2123843

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Is that all that's required to attain pro-grade tactical knowledge - watch on TV? :)

I get it, it's fun. Just like all the armchair quarterbacking on the Internet that takes place in every other sport. Sometimes it's also fun to call a biatch out.

A) Effectively she didn't.

B) She never even tried to force them to work. She could have at least tried.

She in reality did not attempt to go for gold, she gave it to one of the other two riders. You can't even argue she thought she had an awesome sprint even when spent and the other 2 didn't have any legs left, because she was happy with the result, not disappointed she got it wrong by effectively being a leadout for the other 2. She gave the race away.

The thing is, I still don't understand tactically what she did wrong, because her work ensured she was there in the end. It likely meant she was very fatigued versus the other 2, but she had a shot at a gold medal, did she not?

So I guess what I'm asking is, the tactical thing to do there was to sit up, force others to do the equal work and then likely only sprint for silver? Is that what we are suggesting she should have done? But in reality she made it where she could be there in the finish and atleast attempt to sprint for the gold, and she apparently did it wrong?

I get we all like to arm chair every move, but sometimes we are crying wolf just to cry wolf i think. Her move allowed her to sprint for gold, did it not? She was slightly off but she still was there with atleast an attempt at gold medal sprint, correct? Are we missing that?

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Basically, it's not rocket science. I use to race as well, but that's not really all that relevant.

If you didn't know at 500 meters that either the Dutch or Swedish rider were going to get gold then you've not been paying attention :)

You can't even argue she thought she had an awesome sprint even when spent and the other 2 didn't have any legs left, because she was happy with the result, not disappointed she got it wrong by effectively being a leadout for the other 2.

__________

Then that was exactly why she worked to ensure she could sprint for at worse bronze. If she knew she couldnt sprint, it makes complete sense in my mind to gurantee a top 3 versus waiting and then only finishing 4th. So your reasoning proves to me atleast, exactly why she worked the finish like she did.

If you know you can't outsprint the other 2, and you know this, and there is still one person up the road, I'd say she rode exactly how she wanted to get a medal.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Well they were going to catch Abbott if they just kept working and you'd have to figure she'd have nothing for a sprint. I guess I just don't get why she put her head down and buried herself without even trying to get the others to work especially if it was her team mate up the road? So aren't you saying that the riders that got 2,3 and 4th ride for the same team? And the one rider that wasn't on their team got gold? You couldn't fuck it up any worse than that if you tried :)

Johansson and Longoborhini should have been pulling the trade team card and forced that Dutch rider to work or let their trade team member win. Abbott should be super pissed one way or another.

It's a chess match in real time. Pure game theory. ThisIsIt has a point. She could have started playing games to put herself in a better situation. But it's a game that's very easily armchair quarterbacked.

Mara was legit. Johannson and Van der Breggen looked ragged. You have massive firepower not very far behind, and no race radio to call in gaps. What do you do? Really tough call, but playing games is often a Bad Idea. Road races like this are a series of hundreds of little decisions. Borghini played the game nearly to perfection. Yeah, arguably, in hindsight she could have done better, but anyone who think that the decision was obvious or that what she did was some kind of blunder has probably never raced bikes all that much.

Perhaps but you never know the outcome of sprint at the end of hard road race, unless you just buried yourself for the previous km :)

Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying ;) Think Omloop het Nieuwsblad 2015. But I think we shouldn't overplay the trade team card here. Johansson told Van der Breggen "we ride for Annemiek" after she saw the bad crash. Hard to really weigh someones words in the heat of the moment, but you don't do that if you ride according to trade team tactics. I don't follow women's cycling enough but the commentators (Belgies ofc) lamented Johanssons gift of always being on the podium at worlds/OG, but never the top step. Is Armitstead faster than Johansson in the situation today? (assuming they were close enough, which, I think they weren't, but imagine you're always getting second/third....you're gonna get nervous)

Honest question. Seems like most women riders are much more allround (probably partially out of necessity) than the male riders. I guess in a flat flat stage someone like a Kirsten Wild or Bronzini? might be the fastest, but in any other scenario there just seems like a whole host of fast-ish women.

yeah, that was so obvious being that it took them until 150m to go to catch her. had they been just a little less organized, then never would have caught her. if she sat up and "made" them work (as you incorrectly assume she would have been able to), that time soft pedaling could have been the difference between catching her and not catching her.

your expert background in cycling also COMPLETELY misses the fact that the 2nd chase pack closed to within 10 seconds of them so any jerking around trying to force the other 2 to work most definitely would have brought the 2 groups together and she would have been sprinting with 6 (or 7) and she's not a sprinter. she did what she had to do to maximize her performance (a bronze with a shot at gold) while you continue posting irrational posts on a message board.