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Old P3C vs modern day superbikes
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Assuming:

We are working with low yaw angles because I don’t plan on going slow.

Optimized setup i.e. : aero front brake, tidy cockpit etc. on the p3c. How much do you think I’d be giving up compared to a new uci legal setup p5, speed concept etc.

The only comparable data I could find was 100g (10w +\-) of drag higher compared to a p4 which IMO is right there with modern day bikes.
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Re: Old P3C vs modern day superbikes [TheWhiteCarrot] [ In reply to ]
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I think the best data relevant to this question is the ST white paper produced in 2017. Our experts found that with a rider onboard a P5 was 67g better than a Felt B2. (2449 vs 2516g). Now assuming a P4 is at best equal to a P5 and a B2 slightly slower than a P3c, I think it’s a good bet a P3c would have tested 20-40g slower than a P4 if that test had been run. That’s about .2-.4sec/km or 8 to 16 sec per 40km.

The white paper kind of confirmed all along that with unbiased rider on testing there really isn’t as much difference as expected between these bikes. Certainly not 100g (1 sec/km).
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Re: Old P3C vs modern day superbikes [TheWhiteCarrot] [ In reply to ]
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I have not found any data but I'm guessing it would be a close call.
Based on this bet, I'm currently building my own P3C "superbike". Won't be faster than 10k$ superbikes but might still look very cool ;)
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Re: Old P3C vs modern day superbikes [TheWhiteCarrot] [ In reply to ]
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The aero bike shootout that was done on ST a few years back found that their is very little difference between TT bikes when they are setup in the same rider optimized positions without tons of accessories. Those are two big caveats in the real world though. Once you start trying to carry the kitchen sink the older less integrated bikes start to suffer. More importantly not all bikes are suitable for all positions. In the aero shootout they had a nightmare time with one of the super-bikes (The Diamondback Andean) and effectively broke the front end because they just couldn't get a good position.

If you are after pure TT speed the best investment is usually on the front end and fiddling like hell until things are perfectly dialed in. Its a labor of love though and some bikes like the P5 make it much easier than others.
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Re: Old P3C vs modern day superbikes [J7] [ In reply to ]
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The other option I should have added is that I am currently on a new Cannondale System Six road bike which I am looking to custom fit a Speed Concept mono extension to. The front end is very low so I can replicate a full TT bike position. This would be very close to a full TT setup except for the fact I’ll have drop bars with brake levers vs a flat bullhorn type base bar. I don’t think I’d be giving up much at that point. I cannot see much difference there. Thoughts? Heck a new system six may be faster than an old p3c anyways.
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Re: Old P3C vs modern day superbikes [TheWhiteCarrot] [ In reply to ]
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TheWhiteCarrot wrote:
The other option I should have added is that I am currently on a new Cannondale System Six road bike which I am looking to custom fit a Speed Concept mono extension to. The front end is very low so I can replicate a full TT bike position. This would be very close to a full TT setup except for the fact I’ll have drop bars with brake levers vs a flat bullhorn type base bar. I don’t think I’d be giving up much at that point. I cannot see much difference there. Thoughts? Heck a new system six may be faster than an old p3c anyways.

I think that is a fairly common sort of thing to do, I wonder if anyone has some hard data on that. (The difference between an aero road bike with aero extensions vs. similar frame with full TT setup I mean)

I would guess that the drag added by a regular set of drop bars and brake levers would be considerably more than the drag difference between two frames. I've never measured that myself, but I would expect that to be a much bigger change than going from top end aero front end to a rather poor one.

There is a reason aero setups don't have road handlebars or shifters, but I bet a setup like that would be great on a technical course where a full TT position is hard to maintain all the time. Sort of like a Cannondale version of the Trek Madone Speed.
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Re: Old P3C vs modern day superbikes [TheWhiteCarrot] [ In reply to ]
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TheWhiteCarrot wrote:
The other option I should have added is that I am currently on a new Cannondale System Six road bike which I am looking to custom fit a Speed Concept mono extension to. The front end is very low so I can replicate a full TT bike position. This would be very close to a full TT setup except for the fact I’ll have drop bars with brake levers vs a flat bullhorn type base bar. I don’t think I’d be giving up much at that point. I cannot see much difference there. Thoughts? Heck a new system six may be faster than an old p3c anyways.

~200g (with semi-aero drop bar it seems) vs. a good aero bar according to TriRig's test:
https://www.tririg.com/...hite_Paper&num=9
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Re: Old P3C vs modern day superbikes [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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Ouch. That’s is pretty significant. That will be a big hit even with a full aero drop bar with an integrated stem.
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