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Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!!
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Am I the only one who saw the story about Serin in Iraq? Huh...funny that the mass media is not all over this one huh? Maybe it will prove that they have been wrong all along.



BAGHDAD, Iraq - A roadside bomb containing deadly sarin nerve agent exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday. It was believed to be the first confirmed finding of any of the banned weapons upon which the United States based its case for the Iraq (news - web sites) war.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/iraq/082701iraqplane&tmpl=sl&e=1",750,580);"][/url]
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/iraq/082701iraqplane&tmpl=sl&e=1",750,580);"]Reuters[/url] http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/iraq/082701iraqplane&tmpl=sl&e=1",750,580);"]Slideshow: Iraq[/url]


Two people were treated for "minor exposure," but no serious injuries were reported.



The deadly chemical was inside an artillery shell dating to the Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) era that had been rigged as a bomb in Baghdad, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq.



U.S. troops have announced the discovery of other chemical weapons before, only to see them disproved by later tests. A dozen chemical shells were also found by U.N. inspectors before the war; they had been tagged for destruction in the 1990s but somehow were not destroyed.



"The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found," Kimmitt said. "The round had been rigged as an IED (improvised explosive device) which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy.



"A detonation occurred before the IED could be rendered inoperable. This produced a very small dispersal of agent," he said.



The incident occurred "a couple of days ago," he said.



The Iraqi Survey Group is a U.S. organization whose task was to search for weapons of mass destruction after Saddam's ouster.



The round was an old `binary-type' shell in which two chemicals held in separate sections are mixed after firing to produce sarin, Kimmitt said.



He said he believed that insurgents who rigged the artillery shell as a bomb didn't know it contained the nerve agent, and that the dispersal of the nerve agent from such a rigged device was very limited.



"The former regime had declared all such rounds destroyed before the 1991 Gulf War (news - web sites)," Kimmitt said. Two members of a military bomb squad were treated for minor exposure to nerve agent, but none was injured.



It was unclear if the sarin shell was from chemical rounds that the United Nations (news - web sites) had tagged and marked for destruction before the U.S. invasion.



Prior to the war, U.N. inspectors had compiled a short list of proscribed items found during hundreds of surprise inspections: fewer than 20 old, empty chemical warheads for battlefield rockets, and a dozen artillery shells filled with mustard gas. The shells had been tagged by U.N. inspectors in the 1990s but somehow not destroyed by them.



In 1995, Japan's Aum Shinrikyo cult unleashed sarin gas in Tokyo's subways, killing 12 people and sickening thousands. In February of this year, Japanese courts convicted the cult's former leader, Shoko Asahara, and sentence him to be executed.



Developed in the mid-1930s by Nazi scientists, a single drop of sarin can cause quick, agonizing choking death. There are no known instances of the Nazis actually using the gas.



Nerve gases work by inhibiting key enzymes in the nervous system, blocking their transmission. Small exposures can be treated with antidotes, if administered quickly.



Antidotes to nerve gases similar to sarin are so effective that top poison gas researchers predict they eventually will cease to be a war threat.







The Bush administration cited allegations that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction as a main reason for launching the war in Iraq last year, but no evidence of such weapons has been found.

Since the war ended, the U.S.-led coalition has found several caches that tested positive for mustard gas but later turned out to contain missile fuel or other chemicals.

In January, troops discovered 36 mortar rounds believed to hold a blister agent, but later tests showed there was no such chemical inside.


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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Record10ti] [ In reply to ]
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We were just talking about that here at work, so a few people went into a conference room(with satellite TV) at noon and couldn't find a single news channel covering it.

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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Record10ti] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like a relatively minor occurance and the intel has the feel of polish and manipulation. Hmmm.

Anyway, it was all for regime change anyway and we did that. The WMD's was an ancillary agenda.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Record10ti] [ In reply to ]
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How is the mass media not all over it? It's the lead article on CNN.com

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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [jasonk] [ In reply to ]
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According to Google, there have been more than 160 references to the story so far, including the major networks and news sources, and since the original announcement was this morning, that seems like major coverage to me.

On the other hand, the story that Secretary Powell said that major parts of his speech to the UN last year were "inaccurate and discredited" doesn't seem to have gotten nearly as much attention.

A couple of points about the newly discovered WMD. Maybe it's true, maybe not. The administration says that they are still assessing the reports. I think we've been down this road before--remember the mobile weapons laboratories? And, if there is Sarin, did it come from the former regime, or was it brought in by an outsider since the end of "major combat." The reports from Iraq didn't say.
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Jeff7] [ In reply to ]
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I think some people on this forum will be eating crow for dinner tonight.
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Record10ti] [ In reply to ]
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This is actually the SECOND incident. This article http://www.foxnews.com/...,2933,120137,00.html explains that there was mustard gas found too. Thank god none of this stuff has worked the way it was supposed to (yet). It adds an entire new dynamic to soldiers on patrol.

I just hope we can find the stockpile before they do. One former scientist said he thinks they may be smuggling them back from Syria.

To the point of where is the media, I heard a clip from a news conference where they were discussing this and some reporter said in paraphrase, "to switch gears to Abu Graib prison." give me a Fuc!ing break already.
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Record10ti] [ In reply to ]
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Record10ti,

No you weren't the only one. There won't be any admission that, okay there were WMD's. They will just ignore this and try to keep the focus on something else so as not to embarrass themselves.

Or they will insist that the military is so desperate to find WMD's that they are involved in a conspiracy to smuggle WMD's into Iraq and "discover" them to prove that WMD's have been found.

And don't be surprised if they maintain that this WMD was manufactured after the invasion by the subversives who moved in after the "ceasation" of hostilities and didn't exist before the invasion to support Bush's contention that WMD existed.

Or they will say this WMD was just left over and forgotten after the Gulf War and as such was not a "real" and "viable" WMD. They will insist that Bush still lied to get us involved in Iraq.

Did you know that in WWI the Germans made eight "super cannons" to shell Paris with. These cannons had barrels that were 130 ft long! One of these cannons was actually fired on Paris. A weapon this big would be pretty hard to hide, yet these cannons have never been found. Does that mean they never existed and were never used? We both know better.

I also noticed that you didn't have to go to some obscure right wing, or Socialist, or Communist or any other off the wall website to discover this evidence.



Ben Cline


Better to aspire to Greatness and fail, than to not challenge one's self at all, and succeed.
Last edited by: Wants2rideFast: May 17, 04 10:03
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Brian286] [ In reply to ]
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No one is giong to eat crow. All the arguments about Iraq on this site have been about one thing, George Bush. All these side arguments are about wether or not you hate Gearge Bush. Those who said there where no WMDs will not addmit or change anything. They hate Bush. It's that simple.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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True Tibbs. It'll be turned around and twisted...partisan politics. The WMD's found were planted..etc..

Then it'll go into.."I never said that WMD's weren't in the country...What I mean was...." And then they'll mine the web for some left_wing_liberal_Get_Bush_out_of_office.org article trying to say that it's a conspiracy theory and Elvis was involved...
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Brian286] [ In reply to ]
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OK, I'll bite. (maybe we can get more interest in this thread than the PC thread, and kill it in the process????)

Just because a single bomb went off with sarin gas in it, does not necessarily mean that Hussein had anything to do with it, or that these were WMD's that Iraq had stockpiles of. I'm sure that al Qaeda and other terrorist organisations have sources for weapons besides iraq.

If the intelligence that Bush et al were relying on was so great, wouldn't they have found something before now?

BTW, I have it on good authority that some little green men from Area 51 were involved with this. Apparently the press was getting close to finding out the TRUTH, so they needed a diversionary tactic.

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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [jasonk] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

Just because a single bomb went off with sarin gas in it, does not necessarily mean that Hussein had anything to do with it, or that these were WMD's that Iraq had stockpiles of. I'm sure that al Qaeda and other terrorist organisations have sources for weapons besides iraq.
If you use this line of thinking then I can make a similar correlation. Just because a few soldiers...20 out of 125,000+...decide to abuse Iraqi prisoners...doesn't mean the Sec of Def or Bush should step down as many people believe they should.
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Record10ti] [ In reply to ]
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(It's common courtesy, when copying the whole article from a Web source, to actually give credit to that source, in this case Yahoo!)

No, you are not the only one. I happened to read about it in that liberal rag, the NYTimes.

Do you know for a fact when the sarin was produced, or how old the shell was? Even the article you copied expresses doubt as to the origin of the shell. I'm not impressed.

Nobody is denying the fact that Iraq, in the early 90s, had this stuff. Nobody is denying that some of this stuff may have survived the inspections. What many are saying is that there were no ongoing production activities, no massive stockpiles, and no threat.

Here's a reference to the first "confirmed WMD", way back in April 2003:

http://www.billingsgazette.com/...war/25-chemicals.inc

Oops! Wasn't sarin after all. I remember reading on the crawler on Fox "News" that Scud missiles had been fired at US troops. Oops, they didn't have any Scud missiles! Never mind.

On the other side, I would hope that this puts to rest the conspiracy theory that lots and lots of WMD have been found, only to be supressed by a vast, left-wing conspiracy including the liberal media. They find an old shell with traces of sarin, rigged by some insurgents who didn't even know what it was, and word is spread pretty quickly.

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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [jasonk] [ In reply to ]
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"If the intelligence that Bush et al were relying on was so great, wouldn't they have found something before now? "

You mean the same info that Clinton, the UN, Kerry and countless others used to allow the UN to get bribes. Wait wait wait I mean to keep the sanctions on Iraq?

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Did you say oil for food?

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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [jasonk] [ In reply to ]
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Bribes/ oil for food. Yeah same thing.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Record10ti] [ In reply to ]
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>funny that the mass media is not all over this one huh?

Which mass media is that?

I just checked latimes.com (Los Angeles), suntimes.com (Chicago), and nytimes.com (New York). This story is on the front page of every one of those sites. Also checked cnn.com and salon.com. Yep, front page for both of those sites, too.

Doesn't seem to me like there's a mass media conspiracy to bury this story. But don't let empirical observations stand in the way of your persecution complex.
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]No one is giong to eat crow. All the arguments about Iraq on this site have been about one thing, George Bush. All these side arguments are about wether or not you hate Gearge Bush. Those who said there where no WMDs will not addmit or change anything. They hate Bush. It's that simple.[/reply]



Mr. Tibbs,

You are so wise. Your insight is so deep. Your observations are so perceptive. And you are so correct.



Ben Cline


Better to aspire to Greatness and fail, than to not challenge one's self at all, and succeed.
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [jasonk] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]OK, I'll bite. (maybe we can get more interest in this thread than the PC thread, and kill it in the process????)

Just because a single bomb went off with sarin gas in it, does not necessarily mean that Hussein had anything to do with it, or that these were WMD's that Iraq had stockpiles of. I'm sure that al Qaeda and other terrorist organisations have sources for weapons besides iraq.

If the intelligence that Bush et al were relying on was so great, wouldn't they have found something before now?

BTW, I have it on good authority that some little green men from Area 51 were involved with this. Apparently the press was getting close to finding out the TRUTH, so they needed a diversionary tactic.[/reply]



Record10ti,

What did I just say in my previous post?

Oh, by the way, they have just found another of these artillary shells with sarin gas. Since these rounds have no distinguishing markings to identify them from other similar rounds that they have found, they believe there may be many more of these chemical weapons that they have just stumbled upon. These shells are constructed such that the components of the sarin gas are separated in the unexploded shell. When the round is fired, the components are mixed as the round spins from the rifling in the cannon. Upon exploding, the gas cloud is then spread over a large area. This is not the type of technology that would be available to a terrorist organization such as al-Qaeda, unless it was supplied to them by a terrorist supportive government, i.e., Iraq.

The reason this exploding shell was not a bigger incident is that the components of the sarin gas were not combined before the explosion. The round was not fired in a cannon as it was engineered to be done. This is also why some terrorist organization did not manufacture this artillary round.

These shells are for a 155 mm cannon. That is a shell that is over 6 inches in diameter. A shell this size requires a rather substantial cannon to fire it. This cannon also requires some substantial vehicle to move it. This is not the sort of weapon that is suited for terrorist purposes. Yes, it has great destructive capablility, but it is too difficult to hide, move, too labor intensive to set up, fire, dismantle and hide again before they are caught by their pursuers

But good try jasonk. I'll grant you points for trying but you'll have to do much better.



Ben Cline


Better to aspire to Greatness and fail, than to not challenge one's self at all, and succeed.
Last edited by: Wants2rideFast: May 17, 04 11:55
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Wants2rideFast] [ In reply to ]
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You got me.

I think France did it.

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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Wants2rideFast] [ In reply to ]
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"Just because a single bomb went off with sarin gas in it, does not necessarily mean that Hussein had anything to do with it, or that these were WMD's that Iraq had stockpiles of. I'm sure that al Qaeda and other terrorist organisations have sources for weapons besides iraq. "

Exactly. Somehow one little shell with sarin traces doesn't sound like the nuclear stock pile that Bush was talking about as justification before invading Iraq.

Let's just wait and see.
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [Record10ti] [ In reply to ]
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If mere possession of WMD were a just cause for attacking a country we should have attacked Israel too (they have even used theirs against other countries unlike Iraq), and the US should be attacked by every other nation in the world.

I couldn't believe the US hadn't planted some WMDs within days after they failed to find any with more legitimate methods. Failing that why not just produce all the receipts since we sold them to Saddam in the first place?

Iraq was never a threat to US security and if Israel wanted something done they should have done it themselves rather than using their intelligence service's vast collection of dirt on our politicians to get our soldiers killed instead of theirs.
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David Kay on today's find [ In reply to ]
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http://news.yahoo.com/..._re_mi_ea/iraq_sarin

Kay, who led a U.S. team hunting for weapons, said it appears that the shell was one of tens of thousands produced for the Iran-Iraq war, which Saddam was supposed to destroy or turn over to the United Nations. In many cases, he said, Iraq did comply.

"It is hard to know if this is one that just was overlooked and there were always some that were overlooked, we knew that or if this was one that came from a hidden stockpile," Kay said. "I rather doubt that because it appears the insurgents didn't even know they had a chemical round."

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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [jasonk] [ In reply to ]
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Wake me up when something worth going to war over and killing thousands of people is discovered... I don't think they ever will discover it... But if it's there I want them to.

"If you use this line of thinking then I can make a similar correlation. Just because a few soldiers...20 out of 125,000+...decide to abuse Iraqi prisoners...doesn't mean the Sec of Def or Bush should step down as many people believe they should. "

Actually... So far we have how many WMD in our hands that Saddam produced? Last I checked he was forced to resign on limited evidence. (Please understand I think he should have been removed from power)
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Re: Oh Oh!!! WMD - CONFIRMED!!!! [mises] [ In reply to ]
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"Iraq was never a threat to US security and if Israel wanted something done they should have done it themselves rather than using their intelligence service's vast collection of dirt on our politicians to get our soldiers killed instead of theirs."

I knew it! Those goddamn Jews and thier willing puppets in the US goverment did it! Thanks for having the courage to tell the truth. Those Zionist and all the world money they control caused all this because it is just step one of the plan they have with the greys to take over the world!!!

The black helicopters won't stop following me! All those chem-trails are making me sick! NO HOLE NO HOLOCAUST! NO HOLES NO HOLOCAUST!

You are doing Art Bell proud.

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