"And in response I asked "how specifically has anyone here betrayed any 'trust or confidence' as relates to this war or administration?"

Examples below. No need to put names.

"First of all, I don't particularly care about beating GW in November. I think he's doing a lousy job as president, but I don't think Kerry's any better."

"Why are we at war? Regime Change? WMDs? Oil? All are ridiculous excuses for endangering the lives of Americans. There is not one shred of evidence that Iraq has anything to do with the war on terror. Whatever the Bush administration's motives are (oil, regime change, hastening the arrival of "The Rapture," stimulating the economy with juicy rebuilding contracts) you can not give one rational arguement that it was because they posed an imminent threat to the security of the United States."

"however our leaders don't deserve on ounce of my respect.."

What, like Iran? And let me know where you got your crystal ball, I wouldn't mind having one myself.
It's well known that Iraq was very close to having a nuke when Gulf War I started. Without the subsequent inspections and dismantlement program, it's not very difficult to imagine they would have had nuclear capabilities by now. Would North Korea be better off without Kim Jong Il? I think the only person who doesn't think so is Kim himself.... I don't think it is within our authority to judge the suitability of another nations type of government. And that's the crux of our disagreement. I feel that a tyrannical despot who is trying to acquire WMDs (or already has them) can be justifiably taken out. What gives me the authority to say so? I don't know, but my conscience is OK with it. We'll have to agree to disagree here.

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I realize this is like arguing with a 2 year old, but , not supporting or respecting a politician is not "betraying a trust". I don't think vitus promised GW Bush to support the war in Iraq and then later betrayed that promise.

You have to first pledge allegience to a cause in order to betray it. If you never supported it, it's not a betrayal. Again, what cause or trust has anyone betrayed?

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It doesn't matter if they find a bomb with sarin or not - NOBODY and I mean NOBODY except those persons who blindly support GWB at all costs will believe the story. Certainly not the Arab world or any person living in any other country on this planet. We have all moved way beyond trying to rationalize the reasons why we went into Iraq and I think we all pretty much agree that it was one big lie. There simply is no credibility in the what the administration says anymore. I don't care what Rush, Fox news, or any TV preacher says.

Plus according to Colin Powell, Rumsfeld and GWB, Iraq had so many weapons of mass destruction that Iraq could fill several football fields worth....

The administration should focus on an exit strategy, which they don't have.

good lord 3sport!

a rabbit is a lagomorph, not a rodent! precision and accuracy are absolutely critical in these political threads! as brian286 can attest.

:)

toad

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http://www.kenyawilds.com/faculty.html

jhc:

"betraying a trust" is not what was written. Betraying "trust or confidence" is what was written.

Close in words and structure...but very different in meaning.

So what "confidence" was betrayed? That makes even less sense.

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what im saying is that they were not destroyed by UN protocols, they were "destroyed" or used on his own people in acts of genocide. This would constitute a war crime punishable by death for everyone involved. For them to prove that these weapons no longer exist would be to incriminate themselves of crimes against humanity, hence they would rather risk war than risk trials at the Hague. This is why im saying they havent proved it, its not because they still have the weapons.

It makes sense. Allow me to explain in simpler terms.

Treason...by definition...was used to describe this behavior of "betraying trust or confidence."

It was stated by some that there was no confidence, trust, or belief in why Bush or his admistration invaded Iraq. I have no qualm with that viewpoint...I don't agree with it but nonetheless they are entitled to that opinion. However, it would be correct to describe this behavior as "treason." Not in the sense that they are traitors...but that they lack of "trust or confidence" in the leader who made the decision.

No reason to get your shorts in a wad...just consider it an English lesson.

>just consider it an English lesson



You've got to be kidding me.

If you can't comprehend the difference between "betraying a confidence" and having no confidence in something, this conversation is pointless. Of course I should have known that all along.

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I'm sorry you're having a hard time understanding the concepts. I don't think I could put it any simpler. I guess you'll have to sit this one out then...better luck next time.

it's a waste of time. he's going to continue to defend his absolutely ridiculous point of view. we all know what he meant when he said it. and you've even managed to poke several holes in his flimsy defense of his statement. to paraphrase a bumper sticker i once saw: you can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

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f/k/a mclamb6

Jhc, Fastwitch, Cholla, etc. may I remind you all of two things

1. you are wasting your time

2. the bushido says that you should you neither your physical strength nor your intelligence to harm someone not at your level.

pregunta por cholla...cholla, that's a feminine word isn't it? I think it means something like "girl in a gang"...so would you be a chick?

Well, it appears that our ongoing discussion of the threat posed by NK and Syria comes to the front with the recent revelation that on board the train that exploded in NK were missle components bound for Syria. http://www.worldtribune.com/...bune/breaking_2.html

"U.S. officials confirmed a report in a Japanese daily newspaper that a train explosion on April 22 killed about a dozen Syrian technicians near the Ryongchon province in North Korea. The officials said the technicians were accompanying a train car full of missile components and other equipment from a facility near the Chinese border to a North Korea port"

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Interesting. There is nothing on BBC, Guardian, Stuff or CNN either. Doing a Google search only brings up references that are getting their information from The World Tribune.

The World Tribune article (dated 18 May) says the Sankei Shimbun reported this on 4th May. You would think that if this was true then the news would have circulated a bit more. Unfortunately my japanese is not good enough to read the Sankei Shimbun directly.

I live in Japan where North Korean news is fairly topical and I can find no mention of this in the newspapers that I read.

So although it fits the facts (very big train explosion, Aid initially rejected), it's not necessarily true. I think I will wait for some additional confirmation. The fact that no one else is reporting it suggest that it is not something to rely on.

Main Entry: chol·la
Pronunciation: 'choi-y&
Function: noun
Etymology: Mexican Spanish, from Spanish, head
: any of numerous shrubby opuntias chiefly of the southwestern U.S. and Mexico that have needlelike spines partly enclosed in a papery sheath and cylindrical joints



Francois,

It is a type of cactus. No, I am not a chick. I am male.

You are right about these conversations. As I have said to others, I do like honest debate - but that is not happening here, so I am backing off.

First of all Brian, let me say thanks for finally attempting to address a question I asked.

Unfortunately, I'm confused. What you have cited are a couple of instances of posters expressing distain for policies of the President or distain for the President himself. I don't see where any trust or confidence was betrayed. Were these posters ever entrusted by the Administration to support it at all cost? Did the administration ever take this poster into their confidence which the poster then betrayed? It seems we're all missing something here. I don't have any access to these peoples personal lives, nor do I know what their relationship is with the President. Apparently there is some bond of trust or confidence between them that you are referring to. Care to share? Where is the trust or confidence that was broken? Surely you don't believe that a simple difference of opinion, disapproval of job performance, or dislike of an individual necessarily constitutes betrayal of trust or confidence? Do you?

Looks like a group of people are a little miffed because a word was used in a creative way that they can't seem to understand or want to understand.

No worries guys. It's human nature to be upset when you've been proven wrong. Don't let it get you down. Life goes on....

I'm sorry but I don't think I could lay it out any simpler for you. I stand by my use of the word and don't feel that I have to defend its use when it was used correctly.

Is that the cactus Mexicans grill and stuff with all kinds of wonderful stuff or is that a diffrent one? I have went south of the border quite a few times and love all them cactus dishes. Viva Mexico!

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

[reply]
You are right about these conversations. As I have said to others, I do like honest debate - but that is not happening here, so I am backing off.[/reply]

Yes, no intelligent debate here. I stated quite clearly in my original post that I believe it was about weapons programs (which have been found) as well as the actual stockpiles (which have yet to be found). This position is quite clearly supported by the UN Resolutions themselves and the statements of various world leaders.
I am then personally attacked for having a lack of logic (despite having not committed the 8 or so logical fallacies which you have done); been personally attacked for occasionally committing the sin of bad grammar; then my concise and accurate counterarguments are totally ignored while I was personally attacked twice more and accused of being a "Ditto"; then asked the same question three times which I have answered now three times. Cholla until you can learn to argue a point without resorting to various ad hominem and other personal attacks you have a comfy spot on my tiny ignore list. Honest debate does not include your tactics.

But in reality this is a triathlon/running/biathlon/etc board and is not a forum for political discussions. I regret wasting my time and bandwidth here on something other than talking about kicking my brother's butt at the GCT 2 weeks ago.

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I second your sentiments Triguy42.

Well said and done in a respectful manner.

I am not from Mexico, but I think it is the "prickly pear" that is grilled (flat and paddle-shaped). The above photo (if it shows up, I've never tried to post one before) is a cholla. I once got some cholla needles caught in my calf. OUCH!

Oh ok. Well grill that cactus up and I'll eat it. Anyting is good when grilled.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

OK Brian. It's seems you are going with the "I believe I am right, therefore I am" approach. That's fine, more power to you. It seems that is the way of things today, to make outrageous statements or actions and feel no need to back them up with lucid, logical arguments.

Power to the sheep!!

My argument was based on solid facts and reason. Whether you are intentionally on unintentionally trying to comprehend what has been laid before you is your choice.