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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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What would you ask him? Did you dope? What kind of answer would you expect?

However it is smart an brave for him to show up.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly. What do you expect. The “We’ve never tested positive” crap?

ITU hasn’t done a whole lot of late to give me confidence in their drug testing and results management. Cozumel, olympics with Russians, olympics and the Schoeman sweep, and probably many more that I’m not aware of.

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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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ecce-homo wrote:
What would you ask him? Did you dope? What kind of answer would you expect?

However it is smart an brave for him to show up.

It is you that accusing him of doping, not me.
I am sure you can find out what kind of questions you want to ask yourself.


I have asked my questions, they were about training.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting Yokohama women’s race so far. Some strong cycling, some terrible cycling (not taking a turn?).

It’s rough to see Cook get dropped from the first chase pack and then stuck off the rear of the second chase pack. This obviously isn’t the reason for her slower cycling (looks like major issues with her lines through the corners), but what is with Cook wearing an aero road helmet with a bit of a tail but then her sunglasses are stored on the rear of the helmet with the lenses up like a sail? Am I seeing this wrong?
Last edited by: trineuropa: May 11, 18 18:55
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [trineuropa] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, Cook likes a bit a mess riding around. She has a huge engine, but needs a top notch cycling coach and group to ride with so as to mature and sort herself out.



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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [trineuropa] [ In reply to ]
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I sadly missed the women's race due to my son's baseball game.
I have to watch it tomorrow.

Now I am ready for the men's race.
This is going to me interesting.
I predict more athletes paying attention today. This is an important race.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Sat with a lovely Craggy Range Syrah, in front of the fire, watching.

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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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It is you saying that I have to ask questions. It is me (and others) saying it makes no sense. Maybe you can suggest what we should ask.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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Flora is just spectacular. No weaknesses. An absolute pleasure to watch her race.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [USCoregonian] [ In reply to ]
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USCoregonian wrote:
Flora is just spectacular. No weaknesses. An absolute pleasure to watch her race.

Two strong winners this weekend.
Impressive running.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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Norwegians are doing very well now in various endurance events. Wenn should ask questions, but...

The three guys from Bergen do not train with the Ingebrigtsen family and they don't go on training camp with Sondre Moen.

Do you guys think that three independent groups, all from the same country, have the new special sauce that noone else has yet?

Or do you think that these groups, all from the same country, just go further than anyone else?

Or do you think that it is, like in Russia, that the government is involved and a highly sophisticated doping programme is going on? (Along with the XC skiing guys)

I have no clue but I always find it hard to believe that in one country something very different is happening. (Of course it happened in Russia, but then again they didn't win everything and weren't a class above anyone else)

I think it could also have something to do with the culture and that endurance sports actually are a big thing in Norway (thanks to skiing). Thus you have more talent coming into the Sport to begin with.

Also, and this is my sport since childhood, Norway has been doing very well in alpine skiing lately as well. While drugs certainly work there too, there is so much more involved in winning a downhill or slalom race than fitness.

I am not from Norway but I guess their federation is doing a lot of things right. (And with that I mean things that have nothing to do with medicine).

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Halvard wrote:
USCoregonian wrote:
Flora is just spectacular. No weaknesses. An absolute pleasure to watch her race.


Two strong winners this weekend.
Impressive running.

Was there a crash on the bike that took out Iden, Blummenfelt, and several others???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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According to Blummenfelt is was a flat tire that took him out of the race.
Iden has been sick, throwing up all morning.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Halvard wrote:
According to Blummenfelt is was a flat tire that took him out of the race.
Iden has been sick, throwing up all morning.

Thanks for the info!!! Apparently, Schoeman, Hemming, and 3 others also had some sort of problem and DNF'd. (Obv I have not watched the race.)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Yes on the 1 "technical" section of the course there was an S bend type of turn that looked to only be about 8m wide, and combination of 50+ guys all going through, I think some wheels touched and caused some crash falls.

Nothing like the women's race where the front group literally missed a turn and realized too late in the turn and took about about 3-4 of the front group out.

I hope for Tokyo they can find some type of terrain change to break up the big front groups. Olympic race deserves a Bermuda/Rio style course over a very non technical large group into T2.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Yes on the 1 "technical" section of the course there was an S bend type of turn that looked to only be about 8m wide, and combination of 50+ guys all going through, I think some wheels touched and caused some crash falls.
Nothing like the women's race where the front group literally missed a turn and realized too late in the turn and took about about 3-4 of the front group out.
I hope for Tokyo they can find some type of terrain change to break up the big front groups. Olympic race deserves a Bermuda/Rio style course over a very non technical large group into T2.

Ah, I see, thanks for this info!!!


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Yes on the 1 "technical" section of the course there was an S bend type of turn that looked to only be about 8m wide, and combination of 50+ guys all going through, I think some wheels touched and caused some crash falls.

Nothing like the women's race where the front group literally missed a turn and realized too late in the turn and took about about 3-4 of the front group out.

I hope for Tokyo they can find some type of terrain change to break up the big front groups. Olympic race deserves a Bermuda/Rio style course over a very non technical large group into T2.
Agreed. A pan flat course like that does nothing to sort the strong bikers from then strong runners and was quite boring.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Halvard wrote:
According to Blummenfelt is was a flat tire that took him out of the race.
Iden has been sick, throwing up all morning.

Lisa Norden said Iden usually vomits before races, but not as much as that morning.

Iden must have a very nervous disposition to be regularly vomiting from pre-race nerves.

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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Scotttriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Just finished watching the full race on the Olympic Channel.

Disappointing that the swim was wetsuit legal, especially given that they kept commenting how hot the air was during the run. It looked like Varga was moving, but tough to get away and the typical "chase pack" swimmers (ie Mola) did a great job of staying in contact.

That being said, I will never understand why people don't try and make serious moves on the bike when you are in a pack with the likes of Mola. I know that the course was super flat, but there were some technical parts where a twenty-second acceleration in the right spot could have gotten you away. A totally separate topic, but that one S-curve in the course towards the end of the lap was absolutely ridiculous and should not be in an ITU race. Mcelroy seemed to be mixing it up in the middle of the pack the entire time, and Pearson looked like he was hanging on for dear life the whole time.

Mola was the class of the field on the run as usual, and the Americans did pretty well to hang on.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I am not a fan of Norden's announcing, especially if the Olympic Channel is trying to reach a broader audience back in the US. For every "interesting" inside tidbit that she may have, she has 5 issues with the language barrier or just straight incorrect statements. I just watched the race with some non-triathletes, and they all were commenting about her poor announcing.

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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [agyenis] [ In reply to ]
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You can't create a sustainable gap on a flat ass course with a group of 50 people, you just can't at that level. Especially when there would be 35 other people willing to immediately pull the gap back. The only way a gap forms on Yokohoma is in that S turn because of crashes. That would be the only way an gap truly could form, and that's kinda unfortunate type of racing. But if you noticed they pretty much held hands going through that area, but just because of the density of athletes and the way that turn sorta shrunk, you were bound to get some crashes which is what we saw.

But Yokohoma is good to ITU. They love putting on the event, the athletes love the race and area and people. So it's not going anywhere, nor are they going to find a way to make the bike matter. They just aren't. And no we aren't going to suddenly see athletes trying to attack that course. It's just not going to work, and I certainly didn't see any technical areas that you could gap people unless your saying the S turn and take advantage of the group being huge and having to ride easy through it. But then they'll just pull you back on the other half of the course.

I also think for a group (or 1 or 2 people) to attack on a flat non-technical course and actually stay away, would take a huge effort, for the likes I don't think we've ever seen.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [agyenis] [ In reply to ]
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It's the same reason why last week at Richmond, the front breakaway after the 1st lap easily got caught by what a group of 10 guys at the conti cup level of racing (and that's the most "technical" course in the US at the conti cup level). I cant remember if Hunter Lussi stayed away on the final few laps after he made his own solo attempt, but he can't run at all and everyone knows that so he can easily go ride in the wind with a 15s lead and he'll only be harming his own ability to run well off a solo effort.

ETA: At Richmond if the initial group would have had Lussi in it to start, they'd have much more motivation and fire power to try and stay away. But he had only a front chase pack swim and thus was likely one of the stronger guys pulling the front small group back.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: May 12, 18 19:39
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [agyenis] [ In reply to ]
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agyenis wrote:
Just finished watching the full race on the Olympic Channel.

Disappointing that the swim was wetsuit legal, especially given that they kept commenting how hot the air was during the run. It looked like Varga was moving, but tough to get away and the typical "chase pack" swimmers (ie Mola) did a great job of staying in contact.

That being said, I will never understand why people don't try and make serious moves on the bike when you are in a pack with the likes of Mola. I know that the course was super flat, but there were some technical parts where a twenty-second acceleration in the right spot could have gotten you away. A totally separate topic, but that one S-curve in the course towards the end of the lap was absolutely ridiculous and should not be in an ITU race.
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It was wetsuit legal because the water was bloody cold, there is a mathematical type equation that is used, based on known human physiology, to determine the need for or against wetsuits.
If you watch the race closely there really wasn't any chance of anyone getting away, when there are that many strong riders in a pack, the tiniest of gaps are closed down before they become anything. The pace wasn't slow at the front, those guys were pushing a lot and keeping it all together. I really don't understand the thought process of needing to break the packs up by adding in dangerous areas to cause crashes and slow ppl down. If the field are strong enough to hang on then so be it, these are the best 55 athletes at these distances in the world after all. It is a triathlon, 3 legs, the fastest averaged over 3 legs is the winner. The mentality of needing to make the ride more and more difficult and technical to advantage the strong front pack swimmers is stupid. No different to adding in a few steeple jumps on the run to really blow up those larger swim biker guys and advantage the lighter athletes. There would be uproar if this was suggested, so let them just race over the terrain that is there, some races hilly, some flat, that is what differing cities provide, let there be natural variety, some races will suit some athletes more than others, why try and make all the races to advantage the same athletes all the time.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Scotttriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Scotttriguy wrote:
Halvard wrote:
According to Blummenfelt is was a flat tire that took him out of the race.
Iden has been sick, throwing up all morning.


Lisa Norden said Iden usually vomits before races, but not as much as that morning.

Iden must have a very nervous disposition to be regularly vomiting from pre-race nerves.

My nickname was "Chuck" when I played hockey in college. I threw up every practice and game. I still throw up before races or events. I just function better on an empty stomach.

Its usually just stomach acid and a little fluid. Turns out I have GERD and my body is sensitive to rapid temperature changes. (Hot body entering a cold rink...hot body entering cold water) It sucks.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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LifeTri wrote:
Scotttriguy wrote:
Halvard wrote:
According to Blummenfelt is was a flat tire that took him out of the race.
Iden has been sick, throwing up all morning.


Lisa Norden said Iden usually vomits before races, but not as much as that morning.

Iden must have a very nervous disposition to be regularly vomiting from pre-race nerves.


My nickname was "Chuck" when I played hockey in college. I threw up every practice and game. I still throw up before races or events. I just function better on an empty stomach.

Its usually just stomach acid and a little fluid. Turns out I have GERD and my body is sensitive to rapid temperature changes. (Hot body entering a cold rink...hot body entering cold water) It sucks.

That does suck, Chuck :).

So not psychological, but physiological.

How do you plan around that for racing? Go for a run to warm your body and then jump in the water to get your vomiting done before race time? How frequently do you vomit during races?

Since it seemed to majorly impact your race on the weekend, what do you plan to do different next time?

Cheers.

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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Scotttriguy] [ In reply to ]
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I am not an ITU athlete. Sorry if it sounded that way.

For me I get calories in the day before and early in the morning. Vomit 30 mins or so before the race and slowly replace fluids. I usually throw up on the run at some point...once again, stomach acid and fluid...not solid foods. Once I throw up on the run I usually start running faster and catch my second wind.
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