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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Chewie] [ In reply to ]
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you didn't answer the question: name one race that would indicate he would be capable of winning a WTS . . . naturally?

he's 21 so how long would you expect his race history to be? his result would be more believable if he had been a single sport convert and still developing the other 2 (not someone who has been training and competing in triathlon only for over 5 years).

tactics play a significant role in every race so thanks for stating the obvious. the difference in bermuda was that there was TEAM tactics and they worked.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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mag900 wrote:
i just posted stornes's race history. did you not look at it? he came from nowhere. iden didn't and was 12th in rotterdam last year. point me to one race that stornes ever had done before bermuda that would lead you to believe he could win a WTS race. he was 15th at world JUNIORS 2 years ago.

You posted what you found of Casper Stornes.
Casper has a long history of results in Norway, especially in xc-running.
He has participated in a lot of races.

Casper won in Bermuda because he raced to win.

Your question is wrong.
The right question should be: why did all the other athletes bike extremely slowly and let the Norwegians get a gap they could not ever catch.

Do not blame the Norwegians for their competitors lack of race IQ.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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he has a long history of results that in no way are the results of someone who would win a WTS race. you can't be serious pointing to xc running results that aren't even elite running results. you are correct that he has "participated" in a lot of races (and i emphasize the word participated because he wasn't winning or even coming close to winning them unless they were in some local race in norway).

i have no idea what "Casper won in Bermuda because he raced to win" means. you don't think schilling "raced to win"? you know, the same schilling who was 9th in rotterdam last year whose legs were shot after trying to ride solo for so long. you are ignoring the elephant in the room but that's ok. keeping on thinking it's all the hard training and tactics that did the trick.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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I think we can agree that the other competitors will never let him make a break for it on the bike again.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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Did you watch the race?

All the other athletes chose to bike slowly.
Why? I have no clue. Ask them.

If you give up 1m to Iden and Blummenfelt the last 7k before the run, you cannot catch them.

If you give up 2m to Casper, you will never catch him on a 10k run.

Why bike slowly when you can get a gap on the bike?
Why get to T2 with Mola if you know he is a better runner?
Why do not cover an attack from great bike/runners like Iden and Blummenfelt?
Why give up 2m to an athlete that raced well just week before?

This was a tactical race, and some tactics worked better than others.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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I’m not sure who said the strava follow and transparency comment, but I’ll say that Lance is also on strava, along with Froome and the likes. Not the best argument for clean training and racing.

They say they train harder and longer than anyone else on the circuit. Do you (not you, poster) really believe that are that special that they are the only ones that can handle that volume and intensity day after day!? Hmm... Norway as a whole must have one helluva endurance program going right now. But I’m sure it’s all fine. It always is.

https://twitter.com/mungub
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Halvard wrote:
Did you watch the race?

All the other athletes chose to bike slowly.
Why? I have no clue. Ask them.

If you give up 1m to Iden and Blummenfelt the last 7k before the run, you cannot catch them.

If you give up 2m to Casper, you will never catch him on a 10k run.

Why bike slowly when you can get a gap on the bike?
Why get to T2 with Mola if you know he is a better runner?
Why do not cover an attack from great bike/runners like Iden and Blummenfelt?
Why give up 2m to an athlete that raced well just week before?

This was a tactical race, and some tactics worked better than others.

um, yes, IN PERSON. how was the quality of the stream you watched?

your 2m casper comment certainly made me laugh and makes it clear that you don't pay very close attention to the sport. guess how much time luis put on him on the run in rotterdam? 1:58 (and that was with him doing no work on the bike). it was entirely understandable why the field would let someone go who never has shown even the slightest ability to hold off the field with a 2 minute cushion after doing 30k on the bike solo. what i don't understand is why the field let blummenfelt and iden break away when those 2 most definitely have the history to back up a break with a fast run.

then again, he's on strava and trains hard so everything must be legit.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
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Froome posts on strava only since his dooing case. And I guess he started it to show "transparency".

Before that he was hiding his training and that is typically for Team Sky, as it is for the Nike Oregon Project.

Posting your training is by no means a proof to be clean. But it helps to understand.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Chewie] [ In reply to ]
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(Janteloven)
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Chewie] [ In reply to ]
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Chewie wrote:
(Janteloven)

Du har nok rett der.
Det er mye misunnelse.
De fleste valgte aa ikke sykle hardt. Vaare gutter gjorde det og hadde et forsprang.
Noen ganger er ikke sport vanskligere enn det.

Men noen vil alltid vaere sure.

Heia Norge
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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Any way they could have peaked for this race, given the profile and such? Maybe everyone else is in early-season form?

Didn’t sound that way from his podium interview. I don’t know. When I get a minute it’ll be interesting to compare run results from them and now.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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why would anyone peak for the last race that doesn't count for olympic qualifying points when the qualifying window is opening 2 weeks later in yokohama?
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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Well this thread took a turn.

Is a young up and coming guy having an breakthrough race anymore sus than a drug addict winning regional championships.
Last edited by: TriguyBlue: May 5, 18 18:08
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [TriguyBlue] [ In reply to ]
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I think it’s more that 3 Norwegians all training together at an altitude camp (and having done no track/much intensity according to blummenfelt) managed to sweep the podium with ease. Add to that the 17 year old wonder child that is ripping the legs off of track stars and it makes you start asking questions about what exactly is in the water there.

https://twitter.com/mungub
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
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Fair enough, but I don’t like throwing around accusations without any evidence. It’s a vicious circle of my favorite athlete is clean but these other guys are dopers.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [TriguyBlue] [ In reply to ]
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I'm well prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, they said they've came from altitude, seems to me for whatever reason they've came into this race in peak form.

Together with the course suiting there bike strengths and tactics that took everyone by surprise, as I said in the race thread if they continue to dominate for the rest of the season I might get suspicious.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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"The wetsuit/ flat courses are boring when they are a steady diet"

Well, I don't know anything about Tokyo's planning but I've been involved with the LA Bid and assisted USAT in pitching a course I wanted (wee bit of surf, a legit hill, and some technical descents on the bike). LA Bid Committee balked at my fantasy and went with a course in Long Beach - nary a ripple on the water, and flat bike that will use much of their Grand Prix course.

I think most of us here (all?) like and want real bike courses. That hill they had in Athens in 2004 was so great. Many of the guys planned to wait til a later lap up that climb to make a move but was it Bevan who attacked on it on lap 2 and just shattered the whole race? That was what I thought about in Bermuda.

Also, as a side note, It's fun to see threads like this talk about Eli Hemming. Brooks and I have been watching Eli race for over a decade through the Youth Elite and Junior Elite levels and up to where he is now. There is a legitimate pipeline in every country and nobody pops out of the bushes on the start line of a WTS. In some ways, Gwen's path was the steepest - from never having done a triathlon to Olympics in 2 years. That was rare in 2010 and think it be less and less likely.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Chewie] [ In reply to ]
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Chewie wrote:
(Janteloven)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante


interesting reading...I suggest others read it.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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Start lists for Yokohama are up.

Elite Men: https://wts.triathlon.org/...hlon_yokohama/321144
Elite Female: https://wts.triathlon.org/...hlon_yokohama/321145

I'm looking forward to watching the US men battle it out, as I know USAT officials will be watching closely in terms of how they stack up and who they let race the next WTS event. I think this is Mcelroy and Pearson's first real test with big boy swimmers (Schoeman is the real deal in the water and will push the pace), and if Hemming and Mcdowell stay ahead in a separate bike pack, they might be able to hold them off on the run.

Interesting video posted of an interview with Ben Kanute and Bob Babbitt today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxE_BqV8nik
USAT has started pushing him out a little bit from what I hear, instead favoring guys that can run sub-30 in a 10k for the WTS races. But he has a valid point about going for a medal in the relay and he is still by far the best swim-biker in the US men's ranks right now.

Any other good storylines to follow?

The Gram: @agyenis
My latest story on Swimswam: More than a title
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [agyenis] [ In reply to ]
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Ben to me is still the US's best MTR male simply because he's super aggressive on the bike and can "hang on" for 4:40 on the run. His swim is there, his bike is super strong and he imo has the most ability to "suffer" for 1 mile. I think the other newer athletes simply need time in the sport still to get to that level. So for 1 mile? Give me Ben Kanute as an anchor....5k/10k ok we can talk about it. But for 18 mins of racing, Ben certainly is there.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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For sure Kanute should be on the MTR.
Who do you think could be the 2nd guy? Presumably in the #2 spot.

The girls currently it'd be Zafares, Casper. I could see Knibb or Gorman jumping up in the next two years. Especially if you had Knibb in the #3 spot and she is riding solo/small group. Not sure how fast she is over a mile though.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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I would want Ben 2nd on a MTR.

The US wins a medal by whittling down the field one leg at a time. A team or 2 get dropped by the start of the first run. Then another 2 after the run. A group of 12 or so men start within 15/20 seconds. Because the US have dominant women we are on the front side of that and Bens SB combo can turn a group of 12 to a group of 4/5 with a top 5 women waiting on deck.

As an aside: the US needs to hire Greg Troy to help with those running starts into the water.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [agyenis] [ In reply to ]
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This is going to be fun.
Just two Norwegian men this time, Blummenfelt and Iden.
Last race's winner Casper Stornes is not racing.

But finally it looks like Lotte Miller is back from injuries, so it will be fun to watch what she can to in the women's race.

Also interesting is that the individuals accusing the Norwegians for doping have not accused Gustav Iden directly or his coach on Gustav Iden's ask me anything thread. Wonder why..........
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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A Gwen 3, Ben 4 might have been a favorite for gold. Big attack on GJ run followed up with Ben’s swim and bike and then just hang on for the run. Alas, without the dominant run preceding him I think you would want to keep your faster male runner in reserve but use Kanute early to try and blow the race apart. The US will be a viable contender but unlikely the favorite. If you can shrink the field early then you maybe increase the chance for the podium. But we will get to see way more competitive fields the next 2 years trying out different strategies.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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I also wonder about Ben at anchor. Is a guy like McElroy with a relative swim/
bike weakness better with a pack to swim and bike with? The further it goes into the race, the more it gets blown apart.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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