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Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars
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This is the place to ask for help if you are considering a bike that comes equipped with Profile Design aerobars, or are considering adding Profile Design bars to a frame or existing bike.

In no particular order, these are the brands that spec PD (off the top of my head)
Quintana Roo - full range
Canyon - Speedmax CF
BMC - Clipons on TM02, brackets/pads/ext on TM01 Flat bar (can't help with V-bar)
Scott Plasma 10
Ceepo
Argon18 E-117
Stevens Volt
Diamondback Andean
Cube Aerium C:68 Tri and TT
Parlee TTiR Disc
Wilier Turbine
Cervelo P3 and P2 (not P-series)
Sorry if I've missed any bikes

Obviously we already have assistance threads for QR, Canyon and Cervelo so you can ask there if you would rather focus on one brand.

If you would like assistance I need the following information:


Pad X is to the rear and Pad Y includes the cushion. Pad Z is the centre to centre width (or to the indents in the cushion if measuring an existing setup).
Grip Z isn't vital but is handy with some modern extensions and is the width at the base of the grip area (so that angling the grips in isn't part of the calculation)
Ext length is from the rear of the pad to the tip of the extension where the shifter inserts
Tilt is the inclination of the armrest (with the assumption that the extension will tilt too)
Add preferred grip angle and armrest if you like.

For background - I have been consulting to Profile Design for several years - first working on the Aeria Ultimate project to define the fit range. Then leading the development of the new generation brackets (Flyt series), Armrests (Ergo, Race, Boom) and Extensions (the ones with angles as names). I also founded Velogicfit (have now left) - developed 3D motion and aero capture software as well as the only bike finder that works with Pad XY.
Last edited by: cyclenutnz: Nov 18, 20 0:14
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Didn't want to clutter the top post, so here is the explanation of why each measurement is important

Some bikes based on classic find (assumes 0 deg tilt)


then we tilt to 8deg




And finally to 15 deg



You can see that stem lengths and spacer heights change to account for the pad moving back and down as it tilts.
I like to build bikes exactly right first time, so being able to accurately calculate how to hit the target position is crucial. Which is the genesis of these tools.
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Appreciate this. I've been looking at your website over last few days trying to figure stuff out but am still no clearer on my options.. had been looking at p2 but there are deals on e117 frames at moment. Any options considered though..

Cheers

Pad X 460
Pad Y 655
Pad Z 215
Grip Z 85
Extension length 395 but could use a bit more
Tilt 8.5 deg
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [flight<bird] [ In reply to ]
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With the Sonic/Ergo bar


On the XL Argon you would be slammed. To the point that I'd suggest going with a Subsonic bar so that there is room to go lower in future.
For stability you would be better on that than the L
There are 8 rows on those pads - the search aims to be in the middle of the pad adjustment range so you've got room to tweak there
Of course, if you're in Australasia the XL is sold out in the clearance models and the current model shows as special order on the suppliers site.

The L would be OK for handling, just a bit less stable in the aerobars than the XL

Anything else of interest?
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Dammit. I checked earlier in the week and there was stock in the XL Argon... Oh well.

Of those listed, probably only the Canyon or the lower range QR are also of interest.

Cheers
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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I am looking at the Wilier Turbine and trying to find out what PD aerobars are used on top of the Wilier’s basebar. Can’t find any data on the pad width Adjustment range (only tilt/ pad X/Y tables are available on their site). I also see that Wilier is using alloy 35a extensions on this bike, is the rest of the bar carbon or alloy? The stem must be Aeria (like) because there is an option to attach the Aeria hydration to the front end. Would appreciate any additional info.
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [Dimm] [ In reply to ]
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The Turbine has its own integrated carbon basebar/stem - Wilier designed the front part to match the HSF Aeria mount so you can use the bottle (and their testing shows that the bottle is definitely faster).
I didn't realise that the pad Z (width) hadn't made it into the published fit guide (I included it in the draft I wrote for them). Z options are the same as the Aeria Ultimate.
The Turbine still comes with Boom pads I think, so you would want to change to Ergo or Race unless you need a really wide position.
Ergo 124-253mm in 18.5mm steps
Race 142-235mm

If the alloy extensions bug you - go for the 35C+
Normal carbon extensions are only slightly lighter than alloy, C+ is half the weight.
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Much thanks, very helpful.
So the parts above the basebar (tilt brackets, etc) are essentially Aeria hardware? I just wonder (based on the extensions choice in this otherwise expensive bike) how heavy the whole aerobar setup is vs. a top carbon aerobar like the Aeria or integrated alternatives I am also looking at (like the Argon 119).
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [Dimm] [ In reply to ]
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Everything above the basebar is standard PD stuff yes. There is a lighter Aeria Ultimate bracket (the Race bracket) coming soon - partly at the request of Team Astana wanting to shave weight. The Race bracket is essentially the standard AU bracket with a smaller wing, so it doesn't have nearly as much adjustment range.
The Turbine bar would be much lighter than AU as it has an integrated carbon stem. I don't know about the Argon18 bar.
If weight matters to you then non-disc and not having specific bars are good places to start.
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks again, much appreciated. I am not weight obsessed, just wanted to make sure no corners have been cut in the aerobar design. Wilier is hardly a name in tri bikes, but this Turbine surprisingly checks many important points.
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [Dimm] [ In reply to ]
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Wilier have come a long way in the last few years, the Turbine is a good bike.
Wilier got advice from bike fitters when developing the bike - which was to use the AU parts as they offer the best fit range. Plus it saves a lot of money in development for them as PD already has a wide range of options for extensions and armrests etc.
And it's the only superbike that has a fit guide that deals with tilting the bars :-)
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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I'm on a 2014 Cervelo P2 - 54". I'm swapping out my bars to a Canyon H30 basebar with Subsonic extensions. I'm hoping to know where to start with the set-up. I currently have a 110mm 1/seventeen stem on the aerobars now. I also have an older 90mm 6deg stem in the parts bin.

Pad X = 471 mm
Pad Y = 640 mm
Pad Z = 265 mm
Grip Z = 99 mm (grip center to center)
Extension Length = 353 mm

Very much appreciated.
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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This might be slightly off topic, But I’ve just received my Aeria Ultimate bars with the 35+c extensions. First of all, How short Can I Cut the extensions relative to the clamping area, flush or leave a bit?
And second, I like my extensions higher relative to the armrests, Can I turn them and cut to fit (if it fits, havent tried yet)?
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [Traket92x] [ In reply to ]
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Pad row 9 means all the way forward (but with the offset rearwards)
Pad Col 8 is the widest setting
I assumed a tilt of 7.5 deg as being able to do that is why you are changing bars.

You will need to set the brackets as wide as possible on the basebar to get the grip width, or acquire a 50a (or 4525) extension that offers a lateral offset to the grip. Setting the brackets wide also required to get closer to target pad width.
You're unlikely to be able to pair a Subsonic with an HSF Aeria.
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Very much appreciated.

Out of curiosity, what becomes the limit on fitting the HSF Aeria with the Subsonic?
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [brasch] [ In reply to ]
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brasch wrote:
This might be slightly off topic, But I’ve just received my Aeria Ultimate bars with the 35+c extensions. First of all, How short Can I Cut the extensions relative to the clamping area, flush or leave a bit?
And second, I like my extensions higher relative to the armrests, Can I turn them and cut to fit (if it fits, havent tried yet)?

1. you are supposed to have 10mm of extension sticking out the back of that bracket. Bolt clamps require more, but that's not relevant to you.
2. They haven't been tested in that configuration. They were tested a great deal in the standard setup as it's really not easy to make an extension that light. If you do want to get higher rise I'd suggest a 50a extension (has to be alloy if you still intend to use the aeroport) or look at the USE alloy extensions.
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [Traket92x] [ In reply to ]
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Traket92x wrote:
Out of curiosity, what becomes the limit on fitting the HSF Aeria with the Subsonic?

That the brackets are bigger close to the stem than the higher rise options. You may get away with it if using risers - I'll check with my team later on.
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Hello,

First thanks for helping everyone with this since there isn't a fit calculator on the PD site.
I'm interested in moving to a deep mantis position with around 25 degrees of tilt. The best way to achieve that seems to be with clip on aerobar brackets. Also wondering if I can get a few cm lower without an undermount setup.
Currently using the tri rig alpha x with the omega x brake which has been an amazing bar, but can't go any lower without the undermount setup and doesn't tilt past 15 degrees or so.
Here are the numbers I would be looking to hit:

Frame is Cervelo P2 size 54, stack 522 reach 411

pad x: 510
pad y: about 585?
pad z: about 20 cm between the bolt holes I'm using. With my tri rig scoops, which I want to keep using, the z width between the cushion indents is about 17 cm
tilt: would like to try up to 25 degrees
ext length: not sure since my existing setup won't really get there. I would estimate maybe 38 cm from the rear of the scoop pad to the tip where I would want the extension to be. I would like to keep using my existing zipp evo 110 extensions anyways.

If I was to make the switch I would like to use the aeria ultimate stem and the hydration system.
I imagine I would also need something like the svet base bar and the subsonic brackets, but I'm open to anything.

Is it possible to get a combination of parts that will hit those pad stack and reach numbers?
how does cable routing work through some of the PD base bars? Can cables be routed internally through a base bar and out the back of that aeria ultimate stem? How about running cable straight down to the omega x front brake?
Can the extension bracket accept M5 or M6 bolts, which is what the tri rig scoops use?

Thanks!
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [TCoBGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry for slow reply, it's a bit more involved than the normal calc.

I do need to clarify where you've measured the Pad X to?
If it's rear, the closest I can get is 498 with a stem to fit the HSF Aeria
If it's centre then it's less of a drama.
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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welcome to the official fit club :)

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
Sorry for slow reply, it's a bit more involved than the normal calc.

I do need to clarify where you've measured the Pad X to?
If it's rear, the closest I can get is 498 with a stem to fit the HSF Aeria
If it's centre then it's less of a drama.

Sorry that's an important piece of info I should have specified. 510 is to pad center.
Thanks.
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Cool thread.

Can you give me 660mm pad stack and 515mm pad reach to back of pad w/ 15* of tilt for Aeria Ultimate bar and stem? What would that backwards calculate to frame stack and reach? I'm in between two frame sizes.... QR PR5.

thanks,
Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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As far as I can tell it takes ~20mm of spacers (incl hset cover) to match the height of the QR bento
But the 56 is nearly at max pad reach (11 out of 12 row options where 1 is most set back)
58.5 is a less extreme pad position (but gives the room to lengthen out)

The difference between pad row column and description is that description splits the high level view down to exact placement on the bracket
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:

As far as I can tell it takes ~20mm of spacers (incl hset cover) to match the height of the QR bento
But the 56 is nearly at max pad reach (11 out of 12 row options where 1 is most set back)
58.5 is a less extreme pad position (but gives the room to lengthen out)

The difference between pad row column and description is that description splits the high level view down to exact placement on the bracket

Thanks, I suspected as much. The client is in between sizes from both a fit and a bar choice perspective.

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official Fit Assistance for Profile Design Bars [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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I'm trying to find the vertical height gain measurement of the 50 degree extensions, but at a loss. Do you know the measurement from centre to top? Thanks.
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