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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Eric -

Looking for your sizing expertise; got a prefit bike fit to have a fresh start. Previously rode a Felt B14 (56) and a Canyon Speedmax SLX (M - didn't like the fit).

Height: 177mm

Saddle Setback: -33mm
Pad Stack: 620mm
Pad Reach (back of pad): 439mm

This was all done with retul fit with crank length set at 170mm. My fitter suggested we try smaller cranks. Been looking at the P5 in ultegra Di2 in orange...

What do you think on the sizing?

Thank you :)
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [titan4] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Eric,

5'11" tall
729 saddle height
Frame Stack 522-542
Frame Reach 394-414
Pad Y APS 656
Pad X APR 429 to the front of the pad (
479 to the center of the pad). I was told by my bike fitter that retul measures to the back of the pad.

I am interested in the P2, P3, P-Series and P5...have yet to make up my mind. This is my first tri bike and I am scheduled to race IMFL 2021.

My retul measurements are attached. Thank you.

Best,
Ken
Last edited by: kenlenuiuc: Nov 16, 20 15:54
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [titan4] [ In reply to ]
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titan4 wrote:
Hey Eric -

Looking for your sizing expertise; got a prefit bike fit to have a fresh start. Previously rode a Felt B14 (56) and a Canyon Speedmax SLX (M - didn't like the fit).

Height: 177mm

Saddle Setback: -33mm
Pad Stack: 620mm
Pad Reach (back of pad): 439mm

This was all done with retul fit with crank length set at 170mm. My fitter suggested we try smaller cranks. Been looking at the P5 in ultegra Di2 in orange...

What do you think on the sizing?

Thank you :)

hi, thanks for reaching out.

With a Pad Stack of 620mm and a Pad Reach of 439mm you could fit on a 51cm or 54cm P5d, but in your case I'd definitely go with the P5d. If you chose the 51cm, you'd only have 12mm of additional reach to play with, and you'd run out of room real quick. With the 54cm you'll have 30mm of reach to play with as well as over 40mm of stack to go down (or up!) if you also need that.

there's a good chance a 54cm will come with 170mm or longer cranks, so just buy 165mm Ultegra cranks (for example) and then resell the OEM cranks, unless your LBS can do a swap for you.

Make sense?

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [kenlenuiuc] [ In reply to ]
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kenlenuiuc wrote:
Hey Eric,

5'11" tall
729 saddle height
Frame Stack 522-542
Frame Reach 394-414
Pad Y APS 656
Pad X APR 429 to the front of the pad (
479 to the center of the pad). I was told by my bike fitter that retul measures to the back of the pad.

I am interested in the P2, P3, P-Series and P5...have yet to make up my mind. This is my first tri bike and I am scheduled to race IMFL 2021.

My retul measurements are attached. Thank you.

Best,
Ken

hi Ken, thanks for reaching out. With a pad stack or 656mm and a pad reach of 429mm you are pretty "upright" and in the far upper left quadrant of a 54cm P5d. This is a red flag of sorts, as you're pretty far from orthodox philosophically and operationally you're only 10mm of running out of reach on the 54cm and hitting the back end of a 56cm P5d, on which you'd no longer be in no danger of running out of reach and still have plenty of stack to work with.

I could tell you more with a picture of your fit, but I'm pretty sure what I'd say would be a discussion of leading you to water on why you should slide your saddle forward and/or your pads forward 10mm and size up to a 56cm P5d and work to learning a more orthodox time trial position posture. In the end it's all about saddle choice and comfort.

This would go for a P3 or P-Series as well... there's no need to raise yourself up with un-aero stem spacers when you could to it with aero frame head tube.

Make sense?

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
kenlenuiuc wrote:
Hey Eric,

5'11" tall
729 saddle height
Frame Stack 522-542
Frame Reach 394-414
Pad Y APS 656
Pad X APR 429 to the front of the pad (
479 to the center of the pad). I was told by my bike fitter that retul measures to the back of the pad.

I am interested in the P2, P3, P-Series and P5...have yet to make up my mind. This is my first tri bike and I am scheduled to race IMFL 2021.

My retul measurements are attached. Thank you.

Best,
Ken

hi Ken, thanks for reaching out. With a pad stack or 656mm and a pad reach of 429mm you are pretty "upright" and in the far upper left quadrant of a 54cm P5d. This is a red flag of sorts, as you're pretty far from orthodox philosophically and operationally you're only 10mm of running out of reach on the 54cm and hitting the back end of a 56cm P5d, on which you'd no longer be in no danger of running out of reach and still have plenty of stack to work with.

I could tell you more with a picture of your fit, but I'm pretty sure what I'd say would be a discussion of leading you to water on why you should slide your saddle forward and/or your pads forward 10mm and size up to a 56cm P5d and work to learning a more orthodox time trial position posture. In the end it's all about saddle choice and comfort.

This would go for a P3 or P-Series as well... there's no need to raise yourself up with un-aero stem spacers when you could to it with aero frame head tube.

Make sense?

Eric

Thanks Eric,

This makes me question the retul bike fit I received. Did you take a look at the attachments I previously posted? The fitter was aware of me being new to triathlon and I am wondering if he set me up more upright because of this.

Best,
Ken
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [kenlenuiuc] [ In reply to ]
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kenlenuiuc wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
kenlenuiuc wrote:
Hey Eric,

5'11" tall
729 saddle height
Frame Stack 522-542
Frame Reach 394-414
Pad Y APS 656
Pad X APR 429 to the front of the pad (
479 to the center of the pad). I was told by my bike fitter that retul measures to the back of the pad.

I am interested in the P2, P3, P-Series and P5...have yet to make up my mind. This is my first tri bike and I am scheduled to race IMFL 2021.

My retul measurements are attached. Thank you.

Best,
Ken


hi Ken, thanks for reaching out. With a pad stack or 656mm and a pad reach of 429mm you are pretty "upright" and in the far upper left quadrant of a 54cm P5d. This is a red flag of sorts, as you're pretty far from orthodox philosophically and operationally you're only 10mm of running out of reach on the 54cm and hitting the back end of a 56cm P5d, on which you'd no longer be in no danger of running out of reach and still have plenty of stack to work with.

I could tell you more with a picture of your fit, but I'm pretty sure what I'd say would be a discussion of leading you to water on why you should slide your saddle forward and/or your pads forward 10mm and size up to a 56cm P5d and work to learning a more orthodox time trial position posture. In the end it's all about saddle choice and comfort.

This would go for a P3 or P-Series as well... there's no need to raise yourself up with un-aero stem spacers when you could to it with aero frame head tube.

Make sense?

Eric


Thanks Eric,

This makes me question the retul bike fit I received. Did you take a look at the attachments I previously posted? The fitter was aware of me being new to triathlon and I am wondering if he set me up more upright because of this.

Best,
Ken

Yeah, that sounds like a recipe for a bad outcome... your newness has little bearing on what a proper TT fit looks like, only how much postural coaching or outside-of-cycling analogies and safety tips you'll need to understand it. Same with flexibility, race goals, fitness, etc. Also, a Retul bike is just essentially a fancy ruler. It has effectively and definitively measured that you are outside of orthodox, unless you have some highly unique and outlier morphology I don't know about.

Again, a video of you on your current bike would be the best way to comment on how good or not good your fit was, but I'm certain about my P5d sizing recommendation and its ability to fit you both now and in the future.

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
kenlenuiuc wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
kenlenuiuc wrote:
Hey Eric,

5'11" tall
729 saddle height
Frame Stack 522-542
Frame Reach 394-414
Pad Y APS 656
Pad X APR 429 to the front of the pad (
479 to the center of the pad). I was told by my bike fitter that retul measures to the back of the pad.

I am interested in the P2, P3, P-Series and P5...have yet to make up my mind. This is my first tri bike and I am scheduled to race IMFL 2021.

My retul measurements are attached. Thank you.

Best,
Ken


hi Ken, thanks for reaching out. With a pad stack or 656mm and a pad reach of 429mm you are pretty "upright" and in the far upper left quadrant of a 54cm P5d. This is a red flag of sorts, as you're pretty far from orthodox philosophically and operationally you're only 10mm of running out of reach on the 54cm and hitting the back end of a 56cm P5d, on which you'd no longer be in no danger of running out of reach and still have plenty of stack to work with.

I could tell you more with a picture of your fit, but I'm pretty sure what I'd say would be a discussion of leading you to water on why you should slide your saddle forward and/or your pads forward 10mm and size up to a 56cm P5d and work to learning a more orthodox time trial position posture. In the end it's all about saddle choice and comfort.

This would go for a P3 or P-Series as well... there's no need to raise yourself up with un-aero stem spacers when you could to it with aero frame head tube.

Make sense?

Eric


Thanks Eric,

This makes me question the retul bike fit I received. Did you take a look at the attachments I previously posted? The fitter was aware of me being new to triathlon and I am wondering if he set me up more upright because of this.

Best,
Ken


Yeah, that sounds like a recipe for a bad outcome... your newness has little bearing on what a proper TT fit looks like, only how much postural coaching or outside-of-cycling analogies and safety tips you'll need to understand it. Same with flexibility, race goals, fitness, etc. Also, a Retul bike is just essentially a fancy ruler. It has effectively and definitively measured that you are outside of orthodox, unless you have some highly unique and outlier morphology I don't know about.

Again, a video of you on your current bike would be the best way to comment on how good or not good your fit was, but I'm certain about my P5d sizing recommendation and its ability to fit you both now and in the future.

Eric


Eric,

Attached are two pictures from the fit. I currently do not own a tri bike and am in the process of purchasing my first. Sorry I cannot provide video. My measurements were attached in my first post.

Best,
Ken
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Hi

I don’t have Tri fit numbers, but am trying to figure out whether a 51 or 54 P5D would be the right size for me. I’m considering a used one that comes with both of the PX and original P5 front ends.

I do have some of my basic measures
Height 172cm
Inseam 82cm
Torso 55.5cm
Arm 62cm
Femur 38cm

Any chance this is enough to get a sense which size bike would be a better platform?

Thanks
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [kenlenuiuc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kenlenuiuc wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
kenlenuiuc wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
kenlenuiuc wrote:
Hey Eric,

5'11" tall
729 saddle height
Frame Stack 522-542
Frame Reach 394-414
Pad Y APS 656
Pad X APR 429 to the front of the pad (
479 to the center of the pad). I was told by my bike fitter that retul measures to the back of the pad.

I am interested in the P2, P3, P-Series and P5...have yet to make up my mind. This is my first tri bike and I am scheduled to race IMFL 2021.

My retul measurements are attached. Thank you.

Best,
Ken


hi Ken, thanks for reaching out. With a pad stack or 656mm and a pad reach of 429mm you are pretty "upright" and in the far upper left quadrant of a 54cm P5d. This is a red flag of sorts, as you're pretty far from orthodox philosophically and operationally you're only 10mm of running out of reach on the 54cm and hitting the back end of a 56cm P5d, on which you'd no longer be in no danger of running out of reach and still have plenty of stack to work with.

I could tell you more with a picture of your fit, but I'm pretty sure what I'd say would be a discussion of leading you to water on why you should slide your saddle forward and/or your pads forward 10mm and size up to a 56cm P5d and work to learning a more orthodox time trial position posture. In the end it's all about saddle choice and comfort.

This would go for a P3 or P-Series as well... there's no need to raise yourself up with un-aero stem spacers when you could to it with aero frame head tube.

Make sense?

Eric


Thanks Eric,

This makes me question the retul bike fit I received. Did you take a look at the attachments I previously posted? The fitter was aware of me being new to triathlon and I am wondering if he set me up more upright because of this.

Best,
Ken


Yeah, that sounds like a recipe for a bad outcome... your newness has little bearing on what a proper TT fit looks like, only how much postural coaching or outside-of-cycling analogies and safety tips you'll need to understand it. Same with flexibility, race goals, fitness, etc. Also, a Retul bike is just essentially a fancy ruler. It has effectively and definitively measured that you are outside of orthodox, unless you have some highly unique and outlier morphology I don't know about.

Again, a video of you on your current bike would be the best way to comment on how good or not good your fit was, but I'm certain about my P5d sizing recommendation and its ability to fit you both now and in the future.

Eric



Eric,

Attached are two pictures from the fit. I currently do not own a tri bike and am in the process of purchasing my first. Sorry I cannot provide video. My measurements were attached in my first post.

Best,
Ken

yeah based on that picture I could see you coming forward a touch and hitting the back end of a 56cm.

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Finigan] [ In reply to ]
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Finigan wrote:
Hi

I don’t have Tri fit numbers, but am trying to figure out whether a 51 or 54 P5D would be the right size for me. I’m considering a used one that comes with both of the PX and original P5 front ends.

I do have some of my basic measures
Height 172cm
Inseam 82cm
Torso 55.5cm
Arm 62cm
Femur 38cm

Any chance this is enough to get a sense which size bike would be a better platform?

Thanks

It's difficult to ballpark a fit based on just height and body dimensions... what size is the used bike? What are your triathlon goals? Have you ridden a tri bike before or a road bike before? Chances are you'll fit on both but one will be more optimal.

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Hello- I maybe too small of a rider for this bike but here are my fit coordinates

Height 5'2
crank 155 Cobb
handlebar reach 458mm
arm pad reach 439mm
arm pad reach BB 448mm
arm pad stack BB 591mm

Hope this helps. or if you recommend any other smaller frame Tribikes - I don't mind 650b wheels either. Looking for options.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [TriNoob24] [ In reply to ]
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Dear Eric

I am into the market for my first TT bike, looking for a P5d. I did a generic fitting on Monday (IDMatch) and requested to have a "long distance" comfort setup for an Ironman on a fitting (modulable) bike.

Height: 1m83 (88kgs - rather athletic, BMI 26)
Inseam: 868mm

Saddle height: 760mm
Saddle seat back: 123mm
Reach from saddle to bars: 529mm
Drop from saddle to bars: -80mm
Seat angle: 80.7

Pad X: 400 (started initially at 504, but the machine reduced the distance during the fit automatically)
Pad Y: 670 (started at 676)

With this short reach (Pad X = 400) I am off all charts for a P5d according to Cervelo's charts on their website. I would fit on a P3X medium with these values. From my gut feeling I would go for a P5d sized 56, despite this "weird" reach value. What do you think?

Other question: Would a P Series size 56 be a better choice from a fitting point of view, due to the possibility of changing the front end?

My other bike is a Canyon Endurace CF size Medium. No TT bike yet. Many thanks in advance!
Last edited by: Rainbow_Warrior: Nov 19, 20 6:29
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [TriNoob24] [ In reply to ]
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TriNoob24 wrote:
Hello- I maybe too small of a rider for this bike but here are my fit coordinates

Height 5'2
crank 155 Cobb
handlebar reach 458mm
arm pad reach 439mm
arm pad reach BB 448mm
arm pad stack BB 591mm

Hope this helps. or if you recommend any other smaller frame Tribikes - I don't mind 650b wheels either. Looking for options.

Hi, thanks for reaching out.

You're not too small... no such thing. We just need the bike to work for you, to put the contact points in three dimensional space where you are in an optimized position. In fact just reading your fit coordinates and without even looking at the charts I'd say you are well within range of "normal" or orthodox.

First, need to clarify your two "reach" numbers... which one is your pad reach to back of pad from the center of the BB?

With a Pad Stack of 591mm and a Pad Reach of 439mm you are, just as I suspected, you are squarely in the center-center third of the chart for a 51cm P5d and on the center-right quadrant for a 48cm P5d. In other words, the reach is maxed out on the 48cm, and you would be unable to go any further forward with your pads if your fit evolved in such a way that you needed more reach. Conversely, on the 51cm you'd run out of stack first, but you have a lot of room (30mm) to play with.

Or, is your Pad Reach 448mm? In that case you'd be out of range for a 48cm P5d, and quite definitely a 51cm P5d, and moving toward a 54cm.

Let's double check something to be sure... are you positive about your Pad Reach number of 439mm? Or is it 448mm? And, also, I want to confirm that you're measuring to the back of the pads. If you're measuring to the middle of the pads that would change things significantly.

Make sense?

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Rainbow_Warrior] [ In reply to ]
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Rainbow_Warrior wrote:
Dear Eric

I am into the market for my first TT bike, looking for a P5d. I did a generic fitting on Monday (IDMatch) and requested to have a "long distance" comfort setup for an Ironman on a fitting (modulable) bike.

Height: 1m83 (88kgs - rather athletic, BMI 26)
Inseam: 868mm

Saddle height: 760mm
Saddle seat back: 123mm
Reach from saddle to bars: 529mm
Drop from saddle to bars: -80mm
Seat angle: 80.7

Pad X: 400 (started initially at 504, but the machine reduced the distance during the fit automatically)
Pad Y: 670 (started at 676)

With this short reach (Pad X = 400) I am off all charts for a P5d according to Cervelo's charts on their website. I would fit on a P3X medium with these values. From my gut feeling I would go for a P5d sized 56, despite this "weird" reach value. What do you think?

Other question: Would a P Series size 56 be a better choice from a fitting point of view, due to the possibility of changing the front end?

My other bike is a Canyon Endurace CF size Medium. No TT bike yet. Many thanks in advance!

hi, thanks for reaching out.

Your numbers of 400 and 670 are a red flag of sorts... it's an unorthodox result from a fit session, as you've seen from noticing you're off the fit charts. I'd like to see some pictures to be sure.

Furthermore, I'm not sure what a "long distance comfort setup for Ironman" means, but for me, the most comfortable position is also the most powerful and most aerodynamic, so I'm leery about how things are going to end up for you, especially given the unorthodox starting point in the fit process that outputted you a pad stack of 670mm and a pad reach of only 400mm. For example, the previous poster was 5'2" tall and had a pad reach of 440mm. Something isn't adding up here.

Something that is sticking out in the hard data is a saddle setback of 123mm. Is this to middle of saddle or the nose? For most triathlon applications something close to zero setback is the starting point, and then you go from there. What saddle were you on? If you move your saddle forward 100mm and your front end 100mm to match you're at a stack of 670mm and a reach of 500mm, something much more expected for somebody of your height.

Circling back to the "comfort" issue, if Ironman is your favorite race distance and use case for the future bike, the P3x or PX are absolutely good choices as they integrate storage and hydration much more aerodynamically and holistically than the P5d. Something to consider.

Anyway, we need to confirm some things before we even start the process here... what saddle were you using, why was it so far back, why are you so upright, why philosophically is "comfort" leading you and your fitter to an unorthodox position? I'm guessing that because you only have a road bike so far you ended up with a road bike position on the fit bike. Let's figure out the basics and then go from there.

Make sense?

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Eric - thanks for the response. Appreciate it!

Handle bar reach - tip of saddle horizontal to bar top = 458mm
Arm pad reach - tip of saddle horizontal to back of arm pad = 439mm
Arm pad reach BB - BB horizontal to back of pad = 448mm
Arm pad stack - BB vertical to top of arm pad = 591mm

Hope this clarify things. Also worried about stand over height as well as I am only 5'2.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [TriNoob24] [ In reply to ]
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TriNoob24 wrote:
Eric - thanks for the response. Appreciate it!

Handle bar reach - tip of saddle horizontal to bar top = 458mm
Arm pad reach - tip of saddle horizontal to back of arm pad = 439mm
Arm pad reach BB - BB horizontal to back of pad = 448mm
Arm pad stack - BB vertical to top of arm pad = 591mm

Hope this clarify things. Also worried about stand over height as well as I am only 5'2.

So at 591mm and 448mm, you are definitely too long / too far to the right for a 48cm P5d. You're squarely in the range of the 51cm P5d.

What's your inseam? You're looking at about 30-31 inches of standover on a 51cm if my estimations are correct. It would be a shame to ride a bad position for the 99.999% of the time you are on the bike to accomodate a .001% of the time event.

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Eric - I guess I am just deformed haha.....My inseam is 28 inch. So yeah you're right about just having the right position.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [TriNoob24] [ In reply to ]
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TriNoob24 wrote:
Thanks Eric - I guess I am just deformed haha.....My inseam is 28 inch. So yeah you're right about just having the right position.

28" inseam plus 3" tippy toes (not to mention cleat stack) and you're good. :)

How did you come about your position? I'm assuming from the numbers you're an somewhat experienced triathlete, despite your username? I'm sure you could handle getting on and off a speedy bike with a great position instead of the opposite.

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:


hi, thanks for reaching out.

Your numbers of 400 and 670 are a red flag of sorts... it's an unorthodox result from a fit session, as you've seen from noticing you're off the fit charts. I'd like to see some pictures to be sure.

Furthermore, I'm not sure what a "long distance comfort setup for Ironman" means, but for me, the most comfortable position is also the most powerful and most aerodynamic, so I'm leery about how things are going to end up for you, especially given the unorthodox starting point in the fit process that outputted you a pad stack of 670mm and a pad reach of only 400mm. For example, the previous poster was 5'2" tall and had a pad reach of 440mm. Something isn't adding up here.

Something that is sticking out in the hard data is a saddle setback of 123mm. Is this to middle of saddle or the nose? For most triathlon applications something close to zero setback is the starting point, and then you go from there. What saddle were you on? If you move your saddle forward 100mm and your front end 100mm to match you're at a stack of 670mm and a reach of 500mm, something much more expected for somebody of your height.

Circling back to the "comfort" issue, if Ironman is your favorite race distance and use case for the future bike, the P3x or PX are absolutely good choices as they integrate storage and hydration much more aerodynamically and holistically than the P5d. Something to consider.

Anyway, we need to confirm some things before we even start the process here... what saddle were you using, why was it so far back, why are you so upright, why philosophically is "comfort" leading you and your fitter to an unorthodox position? I'm guessing that because you only have a road bike so far you ended up with a road bike position on the fit bike. Let's figure out the basics and then go from there.

Make sense?

Eric


Dear Eric

Many thanks for the quick feedback, it is much appreciated.

The saddle was a Selle Italia Iron Evo, size small. The setback of 123mm is from the middle of the saddle, or what Selle Italia calls the BRP "Biomechanical Reference Point".

The fit was made with Selle Italia's IDMatch system (link) - you're pedalling on a smart bike in front of a camera, and their software is making live adjustements while you're pedalling. There is an "advertisement" video on GCN's Youtube channel for details.

The software has a dedicated triathlon module, where you can choose between the olympic distance or the ironman setup. I chose the latter, as I plan to do my first IM in 2021 and wanted rather a "confortable" position than a full aero/aggressive position (knowing that I can tweak the position if I want to get more aero/aggressive). In my understanding the Ironman position of the software is more confort orientated and upright than the OD.

I don't have pictures, but I can provide angles that where measured during the fit (see below).

I noted your suggestions regarding the P3X, but I am also considering the "budget" version P Series, what do you think of this bike from a bike fitting point of view?

So far I think that I will keep doing OD's, Sprints and 70.3 rather than IM's with the bike I am looking to buy. The IM will probably be a one shot. I am doing Sprints and OD's on my Canyon Endurace with clip-ons since years.
Last edited by: Rainbow_Warrior: Nov 29, 20 2:19
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Eric - I went to a fitter a few times, and they provided me with numbers. Been tweaking my current tribike every year (3 years now) which is an old Felt and wanted to upgrade for a while now. Just want to make sure I am dialed in before making such a big purchase with these new superbikes around. I consider myself still a Noob since there is so much to learn in this sport. Again - appreciate this thread and your response...truly help!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Rainbow_Warrior] [ In reply to ]
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Rainbow_Warrior wrote:
ericMPro wrote:


hi, thanks for reaching out.

Your numbers of 400 and 670 are a red flag of sorts... it's an unorthodox result from a fit session, as you've seen from noticing you're off the fit charts. I'd like to see some pictures to be sure.

Furthermore, I'm not sure what a "long distance comfort setup for Ironman" means, but for me, the most comfortable position is also the most powerful and most aerodynamic, so I'm leery about how things are going to end up for you, especially given the unorthodox starting point in the fit process that outputted you a pad stack of 670mm and a pad reach of only 400mm. For example, the previous poster was 5'2" tall and had a pad reach of 440mm. Something isn't adding up here.

Something that is sticking out in the hard data is a saddle setback of 123mm. Is this to middle of saddle or the nose? For most triathlon applications something close to zero setback is the starting point, and then you go from there. What saddle were you on? If you move your saddle forward 100mm and your front end 100mm to match you're at a stack of 670mm and a reach of 500mm, something much more expected for somebody of your height.

Circling back to the "comfort" issue, if Ironman is your favorite race distance and use case for the future bike, the P3x or PX are absolutely good choices as they integrate storage and hydration much more aerodynamically and holistically than the P5d. Something to consider.

Anyway, we need to confirm some things before we even start the process here... what saddle were you using, why was it so far back, why are you so upright, why philosophically is "comfort" leading you and your fitter to an unorthodox position? I'm guessing that because you only have a road bike so far you ended up with a road bike position on the fit bike. Let's figure out the basics and then go from there.

Make sense?

Eric


Dear Eric

Many thanks for the quick feedback, it is much appreciated.

The saddle was a Selle Italia Iron Evo, size small. The setback of 123mm is from the middle of the saddle, or what Selle Italia calls the BRP "Biomechanical Reference Point".

The fit was made with Selle Italia's IDMatch system (link) - you're pedalling on a smart bike in front of a camera, and their software is making live adjustements while you're pedalling. There is an "advertisement" video on GCN's Youtube channel for details.

The software has a dedicated triathlon module, where you can choose between the olympic distance or the ironman setup. I chose the latter, as I plan to do my first IM in 2021 and wanted rather a "confortable" position than a full aero/aggressive position (knowing that I can tweak the position if I want to get more aero/aggressive). In my understanding the Ironman position of the software is more confort orientated and upright than the OD.

I don't have pictures, but I can provide angles that where measured during the fit (see below).

I noted your suggestions regarding the P3X, but I am also considering the "budget" version P Series, what do you think of this bike from a bike fitting point of view?

So far I think that I will keep doing OD's, Sprints and 70.3 rather than IM's with the bike I am looking to buy. The IM will probably be a one shot. I am doing Sprints and OD's on my Canyon Endurace with clip-ons since years.

Okay. This is an amazing post, and probably deserves its own thread, but I'll tackle it here.

First of all, before we dig into the meat of the post, a P-Series bike is just as adjustable as a PX or P3x or P5d. If you have good position coordinates you'll be just as happy on a P-Series.

As for the rest, there's a lot going on here.

Basically you are going about it all wrong, exactly backwards. You are choosing a bike position based on a saddle, rather than choosing a saddle (from all of the several saddle companies) based on your body in a proper time trial position. Next, you are making a false choice between "aggressive" (no such thing) and not aggressive. Finally, you're making a false choice between "styles" of position, based on incorrect or outdated notions.

Again, your fit is an output of a dynamic and interactive process, not predetermined by an input on a computer. Your position numbers are the output of a process, and should not be determined by any preconceived inputs. A dynamic fit bike is a blank slate, you work it like you would the rig at an optometrist, better or worse, as many iterations as it takes until you find the optimal position, optimal being comfortable, powerful, and aerodynamic.

So, given all those bad inputs and backwards processes, you outputted fit numbers that are off the charts as we've already talked about. Not surprising, very unorthodox process. If you made a purchase decision based on that, you'd be on the wrong size bike altogether.

For example, look at the picture. Does that look like a time trial position or a road bike position? Hint, it's a road bike position. The bike in the picture is even a road bike with clip-ons.

I think the first step before buying a bike is getting a proper fit on a dynamic fit bike by a reputable fitter (using a good fitter-athlete dynamic and process), or get a good remote fit by an online fitter. Where are you located?

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:

Okay. This is an amazing post, and probably deserves its own thread, but I'll tackle it here.

First of all, before we dig into the meat of the post, a P-Series bike is just as adjustable as a PX or P3x or P5d. If you have good position coordinates you'll be just as happy on a P-Series.

In my understanding, the cockpit of the P Series can be changed and offers more pad width options by its nature, while the EX10 and EX11 have fixed pad width and cannot be changed, which is why I was asking.

ericMPro wrote:


Basically you are going about it all wrong, exactly backwards. You are choosing a bike position based on a saddle, rather than choosing a saddle (from all of the several saddle companies) based on your body in a proper time trial position. Next, you are making a false choice between "aggressive" (no such thing) and not aggressive. Finally, you're making a false choice between "styles" of position, based on incorrect or outdated notions.

Again, your fit is an output of a dynamic and interactive process, not predetermined by an input on a computer. Your position numbers are the output of a process, and should not be determined by any preconceived inputs. A dynamic fit bike is a blank slate, you work it like you would the rig at an optometrist, better or worse, as many iterations as it takes until you find the optimal position, optimal being comfortable, powerful, and aerodynamic.

So, given all those bad inputs and backwards processes, you outputted fit numbers that are off the charts as we've already talked about. Not surprising, very unorthodox process. If you made a purchase decision based on that, you'd be on the wrong size bike altogether.

For example, look at the picture. Does that look like a time trial position or a road bike position? Hint, it's a road bike position. The bike in the picture is even a road bike with clip-ons.

I think the first step before buying a bike is getting a proper fit on a dynamic fit bike by a reputable fitter (using a good fitter-athlete dynamic and process), or get a good remote fit by an online fitter. Where are you located?

Okay, duly noted, thank you.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks in advance!

First fit for my first tri bike. I'm 6'4" with long legs. Dynamic fit felt good and fitter was happy with the position we got to.

Pad Stack: 750
Pad Reach: 500

Interested in knowing what P-series size I might fit on.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [nmurray] [ In reply to ]
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nmurray wrote:
Thanks in advance!

First fit for my first tri bike. I'm 6'4" with long legs. Dynamic fit felt good and fitter was happy with the position we got to.

Pad Stack: 750
Pad Reach: 500

Interested in knowing what P-series size I might fit on.

hi, thanks for reaching out.

At that height and with that stack and reach you are a 61cm P-Series bike. You can add stack with aero spacers that raise the pad holders.

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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What is the longest reach (back of pad) and lowest stack for a 58 P5d with the stock bar? And What about with ex10?

For some reason the fit tool on the Cervelo website is off. For example, 512 stack and 526 reach shows as possible with riser at +1 and pad hole at +45, but the red crosshair on the chart is 10mm to the right of the shaded fit area.
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