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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Rainbow_Warrior] [ In reply to ]
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hi, thanks for reaching out.

yes, you're certainly off the charts with those stack and reach numbers, and definitely run into the issue of a 54cm not being long enough given an orthodox time trial position.

the highest a 54cm goes, assuming you don't add the EX10 mono-riser, is about 662mm, at a reach of 419mm.

The longest a 54cm adjusts is about 463mm to 492mm between a stack of 662mm to 575mm.

Can you sit on your friend's bike? Max out the pads and see how it feels.

Eric


Rainbow_Warrior wrote:
Dear Eric

I am a bit in the same situation (and sizing!) than pkeys: owner of a road bike (Canyon Endurace CF 54) with aero bars, looking for a first triathlon bike.

I would have the opportunity to buy a friend’s P5D size 54. I made a bike fit last week and have following measurements:

Height 1m84 (6’00)
Inseam 84cm (33 inches)
Saddle height 76.5cm (79.6 before fit)
Saddle setback 8.3cm (9.6 before fit)
Saddle to base bar distance 53.5cm
Saddle to hoods distance 68.7cm
Drop (height between saddle and base bar) 5cm
Stem 100mm, 6 degrees
Cranks 172.5mm

For what it is worth, it measured current stack and reach (approximatively), but as mentioned they make no sense due to the fact that they are measured on an endurance road bike…

Pad X 37,5cm
Pad Y 68,5cm

I have rather short legs and a long torso, I am afraid that the 54 will be low but might be not long enough, what do you think?

Many thanks in advance.

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits |
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [oxerider] [ In reply to ]
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hi, thanks for reaching out.

I agree. Unless you get lower than 705mm stack, you are an XL in the PX.

Also, the XL will give you plenty of room to go lower or longer, or not, in the future.

If your neck isn't flexible, look with your eyes!

make sense?

Eric





oxerider wrote:
Hi Eric,

I am considering to go for a PX. My latest fit gives me the following numbers:
Pad X: 452mm
Pad Y: 715mm (also tried 700mm but 715mm feels better)
Saddle height 807mm
My height is 188cm.

I am not superflexible (especially neck). I am being told that I should go for XL due to relatively high saddle height.

I am also attaching a pic from that fit.

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits |
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Eric

I am looking at getting the P5D, but unsure which size will fit me, so your help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm currently on a 2017 P2 size 54 and have gotten a pretty good fit from a bikefitter, but I'm not sure the fit measurements are the same as the ones you are using. The data from my bikefit sheet is:

Reach: 490 (from middle saddle to middle pads, I think).
Stack: -70 (drop from middle saddle to middle pads)
Pad Z: 240

Do I need to take some new measurements?

Thanks,
Soren
Last edited by: Sallert: Mar 24, 20 7:53
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Sallert] [ In reply to ]
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Sallert wrote:

Do I need to take some new measurements?

Thanks,
Soren

Yes, please.

We measure where the pads are using coordinates in space on an X Y chart with 0,0 being the center of the bottom bracket.

So, measure pad reach by measuring forward horizontally from the center of the BB to the plumb line straight down from the back of the pads.

Measure stack on the plumb line from the top of the pads thru the horizontal line bisecting the center of the BB

Make sense?

Eric

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits |
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the quick response!

So the new approximate measurements are:

Reach: 388
Stack: 651

I feel like I could probably go a bit lower on the stack to get more aero - don't know if that would have any effect on reach. I'm 179cm but with relatively long legs and short torso, so it took some finetuning in order to fit me on the P2.

Please let me know if you need more info.

Thanks,
Soren
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Sallert] [ In reply to ]
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Sallert wrote:
Thanks for the quick response!

So the new approximate measurements are:

Reach: 388
Stack: 651

I feel like I could probably go a bit lower on the stack to get more aero - don't know if that would have any effect on reach. I'm 179cm but with relatively long legs and short torso, so it took some finetuning in order to fit me on the P2.

Please let me know if you need more info.

Thanks,
Soren

My philosophy is generally that you have to get longer to get lower.

At a stack of 650 you’d have to be at least a reach of 420. At a reach of 388 the highest stack would be 625, and that would be on a 48cm frame.

Something to consider. I’m thinking a little longer and a little lower

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits |
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting!

In that case, should I really be looking at another brand with different geometry? Or do you think a 48 would work for me?
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Sallert] [ In reply to ]
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No, I think I need to see a picture. The P5d is a very very adjustable bike. Something is off about your fit

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits |
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Cool, I will upload a picture first thing in the morning!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Here's a picture of my position. The white on the back of the suit blends with the background here, but hope you can still see what you need to :)
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Sallert] [ In reply to ]
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What size P2 is that?

Sallert wrote:

Here's a picture of my position. The white on the back of the suit blends with the background here, but hope you can still see what you need to :)

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits |
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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It’s a 54. As far as I remember my fitter flipped the headset in order to get the aerobars closer to me.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Sallert] [ In reply to ]
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Sallert wrote:
It’s a 54. As far as I remember my fitter flipped the headset in order to get the aerobars closer to me.

Ok, then I think your measurements are wrong. The frame reach of a 54cm P2 is 411mm and the back your pads are bears outs to that point, which makes waaay more sense.

Based on this picture I would have said you needed a 56cm P2.

For the P5d, getting just slightly lower and slightly longer puts you on a 54cm frame. If you are absolutely sure you’d never get longer, then 51cm maxes out at 645mm stack.

I think the 54cm is the best option.

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits |
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Ok, then I think your measurements are wrong. The frame reach of a 54cm P2 is 411mm and the back your pads are bears outs to that point, which makes waaay more sense.

That's entirely possible ;) Although I did my best to measure it as per the picture below:




Thank you so much for the assistance! I'll see if I can track down a size 54 and try it out :)

Cheers,
Soren
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Sallert] [ In reply to ]
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That diagram, taken literally is measuring frame reach and not pad reach.

Are you measuring like the diagram? Or to back of pads?

E

Sallert wrote:
Quote:
Ok, then I think your measurements are wrong. The frame reach of a 54cm P2 is 411mm and the back your pads are bears outs to that point, which makes waaay more sense.

That's entirely possible ;) Although I did my best to measure it as per the picture below:




Thank you so much for the assistance! I'll see if I can track down a size 54 and try it out :)

Cheers,
Soren

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits |
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
That diagram, taken literally is measuring frame reach and not pad reach.
Are you measuring like the diagram? Or to back of pads?

Ah yeah, I see. I did measure like you said though, to the back of the pads. Frame reach and pad reach seem to be pretty close together in my fit though, with my short reach, which makes my knees almost hit my elbows when pedalling.

/Soren
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Sallert] [ In reply to ]
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Sallert wrote:
Quote:
That diagram, taken literally is measuring frame reach and not pad reach.
Are you measuring like the diagram? Or to back of pads?


Ah yeah, I see. I did measure like you said though, to the back of the pads. Frame reach and pad reach seem to be pretty close together in my fit though, with my short reach, which makes my knees almost hit my elbows when pedalling.

/Soren

well definitely get a longer bike. At least a 54cm in the P5d. You might even be a 56cm, but I couldn't say that with confidence unless I knew more about how you came to be fit the way you are and what direction your future fit might go.

Go sit on a 54cm or 56cm after social distancing is over and keep me posted.

Or do you need to pull the trigger now? IIRC it's a friend's bike?

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits |
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
well definitely get a longer bike. At least a 54cm in the P5d. You might even be a 56cm, but I couldn't say that with confidence unless I knew more about how you came to be fit the way you are and what direction your future fit might go.
Go sit on a 54cm or 56cm after social distancing is over and keep me posted.

Or do you need to pull the trigger now? IIRC it's a friend's bike?

That makes much more sense! I'll head down and try a couple of bikes when I can. Thanks a lot for helping - I'll let you know once I've actually sat on the bikes :)

The guy decided to sell his P5X instead, which I'm not really interested in, so I can hold off on buying since it looks like I'll be buying new. Main race isn't until August, so I've got some time to find the perfect bike, but it would be nice to get some miles on it and dial in the fit prior to racing ;)
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Eric,

We were messaging awhile back (March 14) about the possibility of purchasing a Cervelo triathlon bike and what size would fit me best. I found a used Medium Trek Speed Concept that I ended up having to return after finding a crack in the frame. None the less I am now looking for a new bike. I was able to find a Cervelo P2 in my price range ($2000 on Competitive Cyclist) and was wondering which is the better frame for my size. You mentioned my "new" fit coordinates would be pad stack 600mm and a pad reach of 475 mm. I am also going to be getting 165.5 cranks. You said a 54 might not be long enough and a 56 would not be low enough. In your expertise which would be the better option moving forward? I can always work on my flexibility and be able to get lower. I feel like I have been able to get much lower then when my prior "aero road bike+clip on bars" fit was done and I was pretty comfortable on the Trek SC with it going so low. Also adding shorter cranks may do something to my fit as well. Please get back to me with any insight so I can order the P2 asap! Thanks for all your help!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Eric, really excited about this. Newbie to the site and forums, but loving all this information. This is exactly what I was looking for without a Cervelo LBS and hoping you can help us out.

Both my wife and I are looking at buying our first tri bikes. We currently ride 2011 Trek 2.1 road bikes (mine a 54cm H2, hers a Lexa 54cm H3). She has very long legs proportionately, but i question if the 54 was right for her. We have clip-on aerobars and have been fit (as well as possible) by a fitter with them. We've done a number of triathlons in the past, but are just getting back into it after a break due to kids. We are scheduled for our first IM 70.3 this year and I would envision us sticking with the Olympic/70.3 level. We are age groupers with a built in competitive spirit who enjoy the fitness tri's provide, but likely won't be podium dwellers at any point. Similar to another post, we also were looking at the P2's at a really good price on Competitive Cyclist and then possible wheel upgrade (but also looking at the Canyon 7.0 due to the nice initial wheelset). Unfortunately, I've found very little info on the Cervelo sizing and it will be difficult to get to a Cervelo dealer/fitter. It seems like my wife is between the 48 and 51 (while they only have 51's, 54's, and 56's for sale) and I might be between the 51 and 54.

Here goes - best measurements I could take with our road bike setup (and a few other measurements, not sure if relevant)

Wife (she looks stretched out, but doesn't seem to bother her):
Pad Y = 676
Pad X = 345
Pad Z (C2C) = ~245
Saddle = ~ +1.5 deg (OEM road saddle)
Saddle Height = 723
Height = 160cm (5'-3")
In Seam = 75cm (29.5")

Me:
Pad Y = 665
Pad X = 331
Pad Z (C2C) = ~183
Saddle = ~ -4 to 4.5 deg (ISM PR2.0)
Saddle Height = 770
Height = 173cm (5'-8")
In Seam = 79cm (31")

Looking forward to anyone suggestions you have. I really appreciate you doing this and excited about #newbikeday.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Eric,

Replying to you from the 'New 2019 Cervelo P5 Disc Brake'-thread.

My fit-coordinates are: stack 625 and reach 535. Measured at center-pad.

I have my saddle at 765mm, -50 from BB. 172,5cm crank arms. I'm181cm tall.


Translated to the tool on the cervélo official site, I interpret that my numbers are equivalent to a pad stack of 625 and a pad reach of 490, since these measurements are to the back of the pad. Many pads seem to be around 90mm, so a deduction of 45mm is reasonable when comparing the numbers?

If I have the above assumptions right, then I would be able to fit into both a size 56 and a size 58? My stand over height is limited at 82 which also is fine with the 80,4 on the size 58.

So from the above numbers, I reckon a size 58 would fit me the best, leaving my elbows pretty much in the centre reach-wise and in the lower end stack-wise. Being 42 yo, it's not likely I'm gonna need to get any lower.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Eric

After your input and talking to a bunch of bike shops, I ended up getting the P5D in a size 54. I am super stoked to go ride it, and as far as I can see I'll be able to adjust it to fit me nicely.

However, I'm having some issues getting the cockpit set up properly - specifically getting the J-bend extension to go far enough in/back that I can reach the shifters and still rest comfortably on the pads. It feels like the extension is bumping into something (the battery?) when I try to push it further in than the 50mm mark (see picture). Is it a battery/cable installation problem, or am I missing something here?



Regards,
Soren
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Sallert] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Soren, thanks for reaching out.

Let me check with the bike shop guys... I haven't come across this situation yet and I want to talk to the experts.

My stock answer of course, if you know me ;), is to move your pads forward so that you can reach your shifters. Tips of the extensions/tips of shifters should be pressed into the heels of your hands, with shifter buttons rotated so that they're "trigger finger" oriented, and not thumb oriented... you're a fighter pilot, not a helicopter pilot. Make up the extra reach between yourself and the pads by shrugging your shoulders up to the pads, and also if you can add tilt to lean into in order to make the front end accept your weight that you're now leaning into the bars.

As always, a fit picture would help me make recommendations.

Make sense? I'll get you the answer to the question you really asked though, let me check.

talk to you soon,
Eric


Sallert wrote:
Hi Eric

After your input and talking to a bunch of bike shops, I ended up getting the P5D in a size 54. I am super stoked to go ride it, and as far as I can see I'll be able to adjust it to fit me nicely.

However, I'm having some issues getting the cockpit set up properly - specifically getting the J-bend extension to go far enough in/back that I can reach the shifters and still rest comfortably on the pads. It feels like the extension is bumping into something (the battery?) when I try to push it further in than the 50mm mark (see picture). Is it a battery/cable installation problem, or am I missing something here?



Regards,
Soren

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits |
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [Oskario] [ In reply to ]
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Oskario wrote:
Hi Eric,

Replying to you from the 'New 2019 Cervelo P5 Disc Brake'-thread.

My fit-coordinates are: stack 625 and reach 535. Measured at center-pad.

I have my saddle at 765mm, -50 from BB. 172,5cm crank arms. I'm181cm tall.


Translated to the tool on the cervélo official site, I interpret that my numbers are equivalent to a pad stack of 625 and a pad reach of 490, since these measurements are to the back of the pad. Many pads seem to be around 90mm, so a deduction of 45mm is reasonable when comparing the numbers?

If I have the above assumptions right, then I would be able to fit into both a size 56 and a size 58? My stand over height is limited at 82 which also is fine with the 80,4 on the size 58.

So from the above numbers, I reckon a size 58 would fit me the best, leaving my elbows pretty much in the centre reach-wise and in the lower end stack-wise. Being 42 yo, it's not likely I'm gonna need to get any lower.

Oskario, my apologies for missing this post.

Are we talking about a new P5d? If so, yes, you'd fit on either a 56cm or 58cm P5d. I like to use 100mm as the length of a pad, so I subtract 50mm when converting center of pad to back of pad coordinates. This would put you at a Pad Stack of 625mm and a Pad Reach of 485mm.

So, they both fit, but which is better? The question is how will your fit progress and evolve as you continue to ride and refine and optimize your position. With the 56, you could get lower but not much longer, and with the 58 you could get longer but only a little lower. You could change that equation a little bit by getting the EX10 mono-riser from the P3x which would give the P5d 56cm a little more reach as well as tilt and width options.

If we're talking the PX, it's a similar conversation, but the limits are much more apparent. You're on the very far edge of a size M P3x (reach) and the very low edge of a size XL P3x (stack), and so while three sizes fit you there you'd be best off on the size L P3x as it gives you reasonable flexibility to get lower *and* longer. That said, if I saw your position and absolutely KNEW you'd never need to get lower, and also knew that long course was your game, I'd advise the XL because getting longer has soooo many benefits for speed as well as comfort for long distance triathlon.

Make sense? Get back to me and first of all let me know which bike you were thinking about and also what your goals are.

Eric

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits |
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Cervelo TT and Triathlon Bikes [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Eric,

Replying from the Cervelo P5D thread, appreciate your help. I am interested in the 5PD but I have doubts whether this is a good bike for me. Below is my post from the other thread on the basebar plus additional fit inputs.

“I am between 6'3 and 6'4 (192cm). I like the P5 Disc and would be (grudgingly) prepared to spend extra on the EX-10 riser that I would definitely need for the pad width. However I also spotted that the basebar is only 38cm wide in all frame sizes and unless I am mistaken it cannot be swapped. I have broad shoulders and my handlebar on the road bike is 44cm. Is it a reasonably safe assumption that this will be a very unhappy relationship with the basebar and the P5d is just not for me?”

I also have done a fit the other day to understand my coordinates. They are pad Y 690, pad X 451 back of pad. But it must be said that he fitter was conservative and didn’t want to rotate me further and drop the cockpit lower, arguing that the pad drop of 124mm is quite substantial (my saddle height is 843mm, long legs) and that my retul angle (torso to horizontal?, not sure) was already 20 degrees which is the lowest recommended by retul. I do think though I could probably be at least 1-2cm lower and longer.

My pad Z fit output is 217mm but this is only because this is the widest we tried. I think in ideal scenario I would prefer 1-2cm wider.

All in all, my concern is that the P5D frame is low, so the basebar will be quite low (and narrow), and I will be at a significant riser elevation even in size 58 due to my high pad stack, which may not be ideal for stiffness/handling. So the concern is that after I buy the bike and the EX-10 on top, I may still end up with a somewhat ill-fitting bike.

Sorry for the long winded post. Would appreciate any thoughts from you.

Dimm
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