Thanks for your help - much appreciated.

I'm looking forward for my new frame

Andy

Hi Eric,

Hope you can help?
I’m looking at a new P-series and undecided on a 56 or 58.
I’m 183cm and have posted my previous Retul fit data.
Saddle height is 834
Arm pad stack BB is 664
Arm pad reach BB is 408

Thanks,

Ben

I mean, I’m very partial to my P4, but I think the geometry of a P2 would be best for your position.

When building a mortal bike, I think it helps to think of building it from the bars back. These days, there are some good clean cockpit options like the TriRig Alpha One. Match a good cockpit to a Cervelo frame and you are cooking with gas. A good cockpit is one that adjusts fore and aft and width as you need it, but without using any spacers under the “stem”.

Any reason why you’re not interested in any of the newer P2/3 or P5d, P3x, or the new P-series bikes? Are your cranks that special?

eric[/quote]
Not sure the cranks are that special or not

I’m enjoying the narrow Q factor and need an older Cervelo to keep it narrow ala rruff and Jens

Not sure the cranks are that special or not

I’m enjoying the narrow Q factor and need an older Cervelo to keep it narrow ala rruff and Jens[/quote]
OK, I see...

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

520 reach, 650 stack. NP2/3.

Reach to back of pads?

If that reach is correct, you're somewhat long and low and would probably do best on a 58cm NP3. It comes OEM with a -6 stem and a high stack Profile basebar system, so there's a slight chance you'd have to switch to a -17 stem or the Subsonic mount system.

LMK if that reach is to mid-pad, and I'll recalculate.

Eric

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

What is the availability of the new P-Series (disc) ? Are they ready to ship ? I could not find information about this...

It was to back-of-pad. No worry about bars as I'm starting with a frameset - super-biking the NP3 frame.

Thanks.

Well then, I’ll assume you’re doing TriRig Alpha One and brakes.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Definitely brakes. Still researching bars, but the Alpha One is certainly looking like the leading contender. I do my own aero testing, and it just looks excellent for field changes.

As far as I know they are available and shopping but let me check with my dealer and Cervélo contacts...

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Hey Eric -- You've helped me in my own "long bike recommendation" thread, and I thought I'd ask your help here with a more Cervelo specific question, since I'm starting to lean to a Cervelo (specificly a P5 Disc). Here are my numbers, which I expect will evolve given I'm relatively new returning to the sport after a decade-long hiatus:

Stack: 640, want room to go down to 620
Reach: 510 (BB to front of pad), 550 (to mid-pad)
Saddle: 790-810 (still experimenting a bit with this, Jim wants me at 810, currently I'm at 670, so I guess we'll meet in the middle).

Cervelo's online calculator says I won't fit a P5 Disc but could ride a P3x XL. But I don't want a P3x.

Could I ride a P5 Disc 58 with the P3x cockpit, and have room to spare in all directions?

Hi, thanks for reaching out. If you're "new", I'll give you my standard retort and say that I'd like to see a picture of you in the position you list below before making firm recommendations on a bike size and cockpit configuration.

Also, I think you made a typo in the seat height sentence below... "Jim wants you at 810, you're currently at 670", etc. That's a pretty big gap. I think you meant 770? Or 870 even?

That said, with a Pad Stack of 640mm and a Pad Reach of 510mm to back of pad, you're just slightly off the charts in the long and low quadrant of a 58cm P5d. To hit a reach of 510mm, you'd have to lower stack to 635mm... mono-riser in the 24mm position and pads in the +45 position. Conversely, to hit a stack of 640mm, you'd have to shorten the reach to 507mm (a trivial amount...), with the mono-riser in the +29 position and the pads in the +45 position.

To your question re: the cockpit, yes, if you swap the EOM EX11 mono-riser for the P3x's EX10 mono-riser, you'll add quite a bit more reach and width flexibility, not to mention native tilt ability, so that's a win-win really.

To sum up, based on your thoughts about the P3x and my caveat about seeing a pic of you in your current position, I'd like you on a 58cm P5d with EX10 mono-riser.

Eric

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Hi Eric,

Thanks for this thread. I'm in the market for a new whip, and the P5D and P Series are on my short list.

Here's my fit data:

Stack: 643 mm
Reach: 475 mm (pad rear)
Width: 210 mm

Looks like I would fit on a 56 or 58? I also run a bit of tilt on my pads and extensions. Pic from a recent race attached.

Thanks in advance.

-BP

Thanks Eric -- Unfortunately I don't have a photo of me in the position Jim put me in (the coordinates I gave you). Also you're right, I screwed up the saddle height, current saddle is actually 790 (just measured it).

What I do have, is a video of me on my current bike (which doesn't accommodate my new position) in a critique my fit thread (which you've critiqued) here: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=6964186. The position is decently comfortable on a trainer but it massively sucks outside, but I feel like my weight balance is too far forward over the front of the bike and want something with a longer front-center that will feel more stable, where I can just lock in and hammer. I don't have X/Y numbers from the old fit.

Jim's new numbers are: X=511 (to tip of pad, 550 mid-pad), Y = 637, saddle = 811, Z (center to center pad width) = 175.

If it's helpful, my road bike BB to grip reach is 634, BB to car reach is 501, and handlebar stack is 634. I'd love for the pursuit position to feel kind of like riding on the shifter tops of a road bike. Is that reasonable?

One thing that does worry me a bit is riding a Size 58, or an XL. Man, I'm only 5'11" on a good day. It just seems like such a big sounding bike. I called one shop to ask about availability of a size XL P3X and 59 P5 to test ride and compare them, and he was like -- "dude, no way that's the right bike for a 5'11" guy" but I mean... Jim is Jim. I'm not going to quibble with his numbers and I felt powerful and relaxed on the fit bike.

Edit (to add): You could maybe talk me into a PX vs P5D. I spoke with cyclenutnz and was I was set against the PX for weight and the bike feeling slow, but I've been doing some reason in this forum, and Slowman seems to think the PX handles more confidently at high speeds on non-technical courses. Then I looked at my projected bike split at IM Mont Tremblant (not exactly flat) and 3 extra pounds costs me <2 minutes. I wonder if loaded up it's actually net faster? In the end I'll probably try to test both but your advice would help. My preferred distance is 70.3 with the usual spring Olympic distance tune-up races, but planning to do an IM (my 3rd, hopefully <11 hrs this time) this year.

with a pad stack of 643mm and a pad reach of 475mm to rear of pad, you'd be in the upper right quadrant of a 56cm P5d or the lower left quadrant of a 58cm P5d. For tilt, you'd either need the EX10 mono-riser from the P3x cockpit or aftermarket tilt wedges for the pads and the P5d 50 degree extensions.

As to which, 56cm or 58cm, it's a question of how solid your fit is right now. If you see yourself getting longer, which FWIW most of my fit clients do, you'd only have 15mm of additional reach on the 56cm with the stock mono-riser, and 35mm more reach with the EX10 mono-riser. 35mm sounds like a lot but it can get used up quickly. The 58cm would afford you 35-55mm more reach. Conversely, if you went with the 58cm P5d and the EX10 mono-riser, you'd only be able to go an additional 30mm lower than you are now, which might be less of a problem depending on your current and evolved fit.

As always a pic would help.

Make sense?

Eric

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I wouldn't worry about a 58cm or XL or whatever... it is what it is. You got a great fit and those are the numbers. I mean, I'm 3" taller than you and don't get worried that I could be on a 61cm... I'm just long like you are. Just go with it. Sizes are meaningless anyway, it's all about your fit coordinates and then ultimately your CdA and race performances. The longer bike is not going to hold you back. Finally, I wouldn't listen to bike shop guys about sizing... they usually don't know what they're talking about and certainly aren't in tune with your fitter's fit philosophy.

As far as the P5d goes, you are *just* outside the long/low quadrant of the 58cm... you will need the EX10 mono-riser which adds an additional 20mm of reach fore/aft *and* gives you the ability to tilt which I think you would like and probably had at your last fit.

I'll have to defer to Slowman with regard to the handling of the P5d vs. P5x/PX bike, but I think CycleNutNZ has the gist of the numbers when talking about loading and hydration. If you're a "light" guy, which some are for IM but more are for HIM and OD, then if you purpose the P5d frame bottle as a flat kit, the P5d wins. But if you're a "heavy" loader and have three or more bottles and all the calories for an IM, then maybe the P3x/P5x/PX is right for you. The only thing I know for certain is that the P5d is lighter. Which HIM and IM courses do you plan to do?

Make sense?

Eric

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Thanks Eric.

Pic attached from a recent race.

I'm pretty comfortable in this position- any indications based on this pic if I should be targeting to evolve my fit in the lower or longer direction? I haven't tried getting lower because I would need to undermount the current setup. I have 20mm more reach I can add.

Thanks!

no need to go lower... you could even come up some. It's hard to tell definitively because the photo is ever so off center, but I'd probably slide you forward in both saddle and pads. No actually, I'd find you a better saddle that you can roll your hips forward on and take care of it that way. You might have to move your current saddle backward to achieve that.

Anyway, lower will not be an issue for you, think longer. The 58cm is on the table for you.

Eric

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Hi Eric,

I am looking for advice on a P-Series.
I've long legs and short torso and therefore between a 56 and 58 I believe.

Saddle height is 834
Arm pad stack BB is 664
Arm pad reach BB is 408

Body measurements are 183cm tall and inseam of 91.8cm.

Many thanks

Thanks a ton Eric. I really appreciate the help. Your point on bike shops not being the best to listen to regarding fit makes sense. After all, they're trying to sell the best bike they have available to them, but not the best bike available anywhere.

To answer your questions, I'm probably more of a "loaded" rider for HIM and IM. I have a delicate stomach and can't "live off the course." For HIM I carry 3 bottles (of Skratch at standard concentration) and find I need to eat solid "real" food (1.5 ProBars) which I cut up into little bites in my bento. For a full IM, I have 3 more Skratch bottles at special needs and 2 more ProBars. I kind of like having 3 bottle cages available to me. It's nice to have an open bottle cage around mid-ride for 70.3s for water if I want to be able to squirt myself down. So for HIM and full IM, I'd probably have to run a standard bottle cage on the downtube and put some kind of tool bag under the saddle. So for me, for 70.3 and full IM, my guess is the PX is the faster bike... For OLY, I only need a single BTA water bottle and 2 gels in my pocket, but I generally don't really care all that much about my OLY results.

To be honest, I think think the bigger factor to speed will be my confidence handling the bike rather than a few grams of drag here or there. I've consistently ridden below my power targets in races this year, because I back off descending and in windy conditions and just am not comfortable on the Canyon. So I'll reach out to Slowman by PM, hopefully he's able to provide more guidance on handling differences between the two bikes.

If I go P5D -- 58 with the P3X cockpit makes sense.

If I go PX -- Would you suggest Large or XL? Advantages of the L are it's likely lighter and leaves me a ton of room to get lower, but the front-center is much shorter and it looks like I barely fit the reach. XL has much more front center with a longer wheelbase (so presumably would feel more stable?), but I worry it might feel too big/heavy and only leaves about 2cm to get lower.

What do you think?

hi,

with those fit coordinates (Pad Stack: 664, Pad Reach 408), and those body measurements you are probably best on a 56cm P-Series bike.

With the Zipp Vuka equipped bike, you could go with a 56cm P-Series frame, a 90mm -6 stem w/ a 5mm dust cap, and with the cockpit configured in the overmount with 25mm riser and the armrest clamp offset rearward with the pads in the -25mm offset position.

You would still have room to go longer and lower with that setup in the future.

Make sense?

Eric

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Probably the XL, unless you think you're going to get tons lower in the future then the L. If your fit was absolutely dialed, and needed absolutely no more reach, then I'd put you on the L. Your handling preferences would be the deciding factor.

Eric

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Thanks Eric,

Yes that makes sense.
Presumably there’s enough seatpost on a 56cm frame for the height required?

Awesome. Thanks!