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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Bulldogjcz] [ In reply to ]
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Does Canyon have a 100mm stem for the CF? What is the angle on it and or the 90mm.

Bulldogjcz,

No 100m stems for the CF, only 70, 80, 90. Regarding the angle of that stem...I've studies images on the CF all across the internet since you asked and I'm supremely confident the stem has a -17 degree pitch. The head tube on the CF is 73 degrees for S-XL only the XS is the odd ball at 72.5 degrees.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [rsmoylan] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Just did follow up assessment with Ian Buchanan at Fitwerx and he did in fact tweak things a bit. He made me a bit lower and bit longer. New numbers:
Pad Y: 64 cm
Pad X: 52.5 cm This is to center of pad.
Can't wait to hear what you have to say!


Scott,

Good on ya for staying diligent with your fit coordinates.

For the 2018 Speedmax SLX you can go one of two ways....
1) Medium with the flat bar, long stem, a single 60mm spacer + two 5mm spacers and pads dead center.
or
2) Large with flat bar, short stem a single 20mm spacer + three 3mm spacers and pads dead center.
There's no wrong choice here, I can't even make an argument for a better choice - you have the wonderful freedom of choose based on availability.

For the 2019 Speedmax SLX you can go one of two ways...
1) Medium with either flat or rise bar*, short stem, 45mm of spacer^ and pads pushed forward not to the max but darn close.
or
2) Large with flat or rise bar*, short stem, 10mm of spacer^ and pads nearly dead center.

*on the new bike there are only two options for the base bar: flat or rise (no drop version in 2019), and the base bar no longer effects the spacer height so flat or rise you still need 45mm of spacer with the M and 10mm of spacer with the large.

^on the new bike there's a mess of 5 and 10 mm spacers and they just get stacked up to achieve the height needed. No longer is there a need to purchase an aftermarket 60mm or deal with a 20 and some combo of 5s.

Now, what way would I lean on the 2019 bike....availability is a legit issue here so that's a factor and I think either size is great. I might prefer the large for one simple reason - it comes stock with the flat bar and I'd rather not have 45mm of elevation difference betwixt my aero extensions and my brake levers. I want those closer - as a triathlete, if I was 100% time trial then okay, maybe. Then again, I could get the M, pay a bit extra for the rise bar and have less gap but then I like the aesthetic of the flat bar so there's my own personal snobbery with which to contend as well. Oh, decisions!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Below are my metrics. The online calculator suggested a small frame but a local fitter suggested medium so I wanted another opinion.
Pad Y = 545mm
Pad X = 470mm



sfjab,

For the 2018 Speedmax SLX it can only be the small (the lowest the pads will go on the medium is 555 (and that's with the drop bar, if you go with the stock flat bar the lowest is 570). So, for you it's a size small with the flat bar, short stem and slammed (that is to say - no spacers between the aerbars and the base bar). You can mount the arm pads in the stock mounts and just move 'em back one or two holes of center to get your Pad X of 470.

For the 2019 Speedmax SLX the lowest the size small goes is 565. Your Pad X is not problem: short stem, pads back slightly.

Ian

Thanks for the feedback... so this means the 2019 Speedmax SLX in size small would not fit well?
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JFGOTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the explanations. I did measure it and it's at 766mm if I take the lowest part of the saddle and about 770mm if I go straight following seat post tube from center of BB. I have 86-87cm inseam.

Also, I think I could easily have a longer Pad X reach. Probably would be more confortable with at least +10-15mm (would give 460 to 465mm).

Thanks for helping.

JF,

Based on all this I'm predicting Pad Y of 626 and Pad X of 468

On the 2018 Speedmax SLX you could go one of four ways...
1) Size small with a flat bar, short stem and then the maximum spacers: one 60mm + one 20mm spacer, and pads in the stock mounts but back a couple of holes.
2) Size small with a rise bar, short stem, and a single 60mm spacer, and again pads in the stock mounts but back a skosh from center.
3) Size medium with a flat bar, short stem, the TSP, and two 20mm spacers + two 5mm spacers.
4) Size medium with rise bar, short stem, the TSP, and a single 20mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer.

Advice on those options: I don't like being painted into a corner (maximum spacers) so #1 is not a great option in my mind. #2 is very good: keeping in mind there are aftermarket purchases of the rise bar and the 60mm spacer. #3 is prolly my favorite: the only aftermarket purchase is the TSP (Team Switch Plate) needed to pull the arm pads back a bit more. #4 is good too but more money to speed on both rise bar and TSP.

As for the new 2019 Speedmax SLX there's only one way to go: size medium, short stem, TSP and 30mm of spacers - BOOM! that's a nice set up! Stay with the flat bar 'cuase 8 of 10 tifosi say it's sexier.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for the explanations. I did measure it and it's at 766mm if I take the lowest part of the saddle and about 770mm if I go straight following seat post tube from center of BB. I have 86-87cm inseam.

Also, I think I could easily have a longer Pad X reach. Probably would be more confortable with at least +10-15mm (would give 460 to 465mm).

Thanks for helping.


JF,

Based on all this I'm predicting Pad Y of 626 and Pad X of 468

On the 2018 Speedmax SLX you could go one of four ways...
1) Size small with a flat bar, short stem and then the maximum spacers: one 60mm + one 20mm spacer, and pads in the stock mounts but back a couple of holes.
2) Size small with a rise bar, short stem, and a single 60mm spacer, and again pads in the stock mounts but back a skosh from center.
3) Size medium with a flat bar, short stem, the TSP, and two 20mm spacers + two 5mm spacers.
4) Size medium with rise bar, short stem, the TSP, and a single 20mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer.

Advice on those options: I don't like being painted into a corner (maximum spacers) so #1 is not a great option in my mind. #2 is very good: keeping in mind there are aftermarket purchases of the rise bar and the 60mm spacer. #3 is prolly my favorite: the only aftermarket purchase is the TSP (Team Switch Plate) needed to pull the arm pads back a bit more. #4 is good too but more money to speed on both rise bar and TSP.

As for the new 2019 Speedmax SLX there's only one way to go: size medium, short stem, TSP and 30mm of spacers - BOOM! that's a nice set up! Stay with the flat bar 'cuase 8 of 10 tifosi say it's sexier.

Ian


Thank you so much Ian! You're making my day!!! Now I hope I will find one available... Will go for the 2019!

Anyways, enjoy this Holiday Season!!!

Best,

J.F.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [sfjab] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks for the feedback... so this means the 2019 Speedmax SLX in size small would not fit well?


sfjab,

In the world of bike fit (my world of bike fit) I'm okay with seat height being 1mm off, maybe 2mm. I mean that could be the difference in training in a bike short (thick pad) and racing in a tri short (thin pad). And I'm okay with other stuff being 10-20mm off of perfect - like Pad X for example because elbows can hang off the back of the pad and elbows can be stuck in the middle of the pad and that can be a pretty big sway.

We're talking about your Pad Y of 545. This speaks to your arm pad elevation, also known as your "drop" - and man, you ride low. There are aero fanatics on this site who immediately think down is fast and up is slow. There are also some folks with real wind tunnel experience who know that lower is not always faster. Also, Slowman and myself and many others have found that as we get a touch older (Dan's in his early 60s, I just turned 50) our necks simply will not stand craning up high to have a safe field of vision up the road. To that end we raise our arm pads 5-10mm to alleviate the problem. All this is a primer to me saying the the lowest the new size small will go is a Pad Y of 565 and that's 20mm higher than your current desire to ride at Pad Y 545 (just as an aside lowest a Ventum will go is 595). So you ask would it "not fit well" - if you're Pad Y is really 545 that's 20mm lower then 565 and 20min in pad height is not "noise" to me, that seems like a bit too much, it wouldn't be optimal - it would be comfortable, but not optimal.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Dec 18, 18 15:55
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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Hang in there Louis - and remember, if there's any hesitation to anyone about the 650s just offer them two words: Emma Pooley

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Many thanks for your help Ian,
I'm getting there...
I sent emails to Felt ( my daughters's team sponsor) about their DA's availability in size 47. I also sent emails to Renn about 650c tubular disks.

Louis :-)
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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Hi!

I have a Speedmax CF i size L, i´m 190cm tall with a pretty long torso, seat height is around 81-82cm bbcenter-saddle. I need a little more reach. Can someone recommend a stem that would fit good and look good, 100mm-110mm
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Badass, Ian! Thanks so much. Now, decisions...decisions...

Team Zoot
2019 Sponsors: Canyon Bikes, Garmin, Smith Optics, Gatorade, Zealios Skin Care & Sun Protection, Speedfill Products, Base Performance, Ottolock, Theragun, Boco Gear, ORR Carbon Wheel Systems, Giddy Up Multisport
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [superdea] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I have a Speedmax CF i size L, i´m 190cm tall with a pretty long torso, seat height is around 81-82cm bbcenter-saddle. I need a little more reach. Can someone recommend a stem that would fit good and look good, 100mm-110mm

superdea,

I have to start at the bottom (just like when I call computer tech support for a issue and the first thing they as is "is the machine plugged in?") please hang with me for the progressive steps...
  1. Have you removed the arm pad cushion and looked at moving the arm cups forward a hole or two?
  2. Would you consider staying with the 90mm stem and switching to a different set of clip-on aerobars that could give you the 10-20mm of cockpit distance you seek?
  3. The steer tube on your bike is 1 1/8in and the base bar is 31.8 (all standard) so lots of stems will fit, but I'm with you, the aesthetic is important. One option is the Profile Design Aria Ultimate. I can tell that it's a hunk of material (455gms for 100mm) but if there's anything that I want to be bomb-proof on my tri bike let it be the stem first! Also, there's some nice cable routing options within the stem, there's even room for a j-box if you're running Di2.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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1 Yes i have done that but then the extensions will be a bit short

2 it would be easier to switch stem, i dont want to redo the cabling.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian

This is an awesome service!

I bought a M Speedmax CF SLX 9.0 here in the states. There are are no choices of stem, bar, extensions, crank length, etc here. You just have to take whatever build they have when one becomes available in your size.

I would appreciate help with finding my coordinates and then see if I have the right bike.

Thanks so much!

Kent
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ok, let me try this again!

BB to center of pad 460

BB to top of pad 620

thank you!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [anthonypat] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
BB to center of pad 460

BB to top of pad 620

thank you!

anthonypat,

Now we're talking!!!
On the 2018 Speedmax SLX you could go one of four ways.
1) Size small, flat bar, short stem, and the TSP (Team Switch Plate), a single 60mm spacer + three 5mm spacers. Without the TSP the shortest Pad X is 466. With the TSP you'd likely put the pads in the maximum forward position to have your 460 on the button.
2) Size small, rise bar, short stem, TSP, and now two 20mm spacers + three 5mm spacers.
3) Size medium, flat bar, short stem, TSP, and two 20mm spacers + two 5mm spacers*
4) Size medium, rise bar, short stem, TSP, and a single 20mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer*
*The Pad X on the medium with short stem and the TSP and the pads pulled back as far as they will go yields a 462. I'm good with 2mm- but this paints you in a corner, you cannot go any shorter in cockpit, you are maxed.

On the 2019 Speedmax SLX you could go one of two ways.
1) Size small, short stem, pads in the stock mounts and pulled back two holes - and you'd need the maximum of 55mm of spacers. You can do the flat bar or the rise bar it doesn't effect the Pad Y on this bike you've only got two issues with which to consider a) aesthetic and b) the gap between aero position and the brake levers down on the pursuit bars. With the flat bar that's gonna be ~6cm with the rise bar less but I don't yet know how much as I haven't had a chance to play with this bike yet.
2) Size medium, short stem, TSP and 25mm of spacer. The minimum Pad X with the TSP is 440 and the minimum in the stock mounts is 475 so you've got room to roam a bit if you need to later.
I really think the Medium is the way to go here.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for all the great info Ian!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi,

I nead assistance to get the right slx size.

Size: 189cm
Inseam: 94cm
Arm lenght : 66,5cm
Torso lenght: 61,5cm
Shoulder width: 46cm

Should I get the M or the L frame (2018) ?
Thank you so much for your help.

BR
Wil
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Wiltri] [ In reply to ]
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Interested to hear the answer on this... depends on your fit really

Wiltri wrote:
Hi,

I nead assistance to get the right slx size.

Size: 189cm
Inseam: 94cm
Arm lenght : 66,5cm
Torso lenght: 61,5cm
Shoulder width: 46cm

Should I get the M or the L frame (2018) ?
Thank you so much for your help.

BR
Wil

Eric Reid
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Wiltri] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I nead assistance to get the right slx size.

Size: 189cm
Inseam: 94cm
Arm lenght : 66,5cm
Torso lenght: 61,5cm
Shoulder width: 46cm

Should I get the M or the L frame (2018) ?
Thank you so much for your help.

Wil,

If you have your have a seat height (or some data from my list below) that you know and are confident about I'd like those numbers. See my hierarchy below as an explanation why....

There are, in life, good-better-best ways to get things done. You want toast? A toaster might be best. The ovens broiler works but has more risk, and you can get toast by holding a slice of bread in your hand while someone waves one of Elon Musk's Boring flame throwers over it a few times but it's clearly not the best way.

The best prescription comes from the numbers generated after spending time with an educated, experience fitter who owns a dynamic fit bike. They gotta check off all three of those boxes or we are better off moving on to the next in the list. The invaluable upside of this option is that you get the Pad Y and Pad X you need for purchase but you also get all your coordinates need for perfection.

Next is an existing tri bike that is going to be replaced but the position is good. If this is the case I can quickly and easily explain how to measure Pad Y and Pad X at home, off of that bike so that we can work from those numbers on the new bike purchase.

Next up is me, using your overall height (1890mm) and your seat height (790? 812?) to make an strong hypothesis of your Pad Y/X.

Next is you taking the numbers you've given and going into Canyon's PPS to prescribe the size.

So, if you've got a bike at home to reference let me know. If not send me your seat height and let me use that. Barring those. Head on over to Canyon's site for the PPS.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for your quick answer Ian.

I fully agree with what you said. It makes sense.

To tell you my story, I first used the Canyon's PPS that prescribed me a M size with short stem. Then I ordered the bike and received it two weeks ago.
I visited then a fitter that told me that he will fit myself on this M size bike but that my possition would be very agressive. The fitter was using two cameras that reproduces my avatar on a screen with all my body angles.

Back Home, I tested the bike alone on my Home trainer but found the position very agressive and had the feeling that the frame was too small. I saw as well the bike settings at their maximums (seatpost in a very rear position, aero bars out of their setting area very upfront and max spacer stack possible 50mm). The worst feeling was when I had the hands on the brake position. I had the impression to bend a lot my back.

That is why, I decided to send back the bike to canyon to change for a L.

My Seat height is 815mm. You will find attached photos of my settings on the M size.
For your information, I have planned my first IM this year.

Thank you again for your help.
BR
Wil
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Wiltri] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Wiltri] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thank you for your quick answer Ian.

I fully agree with what you said. It makes sense.

To tell you my story, I first used the Canyon's PPS that prescribed me a M size with short stem. Then I ordered the bike and received it two weeks ago.
I visited then a fitter that told me that he will fit myself on this M size bike but that my possition would be very agressive. The fitter was using two cameras that reproduces my avatar on a screen with all my body angles.

Back Home, I tested the bike alone on my Home trainer but found the position very agressive and had the feeling that the frame was too small. I saw as well the bike settings at their maximums (seatpost in a very rear position, aero bars out of their setting area very upfront and max spacer stack possible 50mm). The worst feeling was when I had the hands on the brake position. I had the impression to bend a lot my back.

That is why, I decided to send back the bike to canyon to change for a L.

My Seat height is 815mm. You will find attached photos of my settings on the M size.
For your information, I have planned my first IM this year.

Thank you again for your help.

Wil,

Thanks for include more information. Just like doing a consultation before I start of a fit in my studio, I find the more info I get in this thread the better prescription I can make.

I believe that I know what you mean when you say "aggressive". I think that means our arm pad elevation is rather low. What really stands out for me are these things:
1) you had a fit done but the fitter didn't tell you your optimal Pad Y and Pad X. That disappoints me. I feel that is a number that a customer deserves to get when they leave a fitting. That's a number that we (athletes, fitters) live by and, as seen in this exact situation, would remove the guess work. Motion capture with cameras is cool but achieving "Reasonable Fit Expectations" is better https://www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/Road_Bike_Fit/Reasonable_bike_fit_expectations_3595.html
2) "max spacer stack possible 50mm" - hold the phone! The max spacer stack for the 2018 bike is 80mm (a single 60mm spacer + a single 20mm spacer). To be clear the 60mm spacer is a piece that does NOT come stock on the bike and has to be ordered when needed (I think it's $20 USD). The max Pad Y of a 2018 size Medium is 645mm with the rise base bar and 625 with the flat bar.
3) Seat post in the very rear position - oh boy. This concerns me. I haven't studied the bike yet but that seems like a very shallow seat angle and I'm concerned.


I came up with a Pad Y of 666 and Pad X of 505 using a formula I trust.

You've been dealing with the 2018 Speedmax SLX so for that bike... Size Large, flat bar, short stem, TSP (Team Switch Plate) and a single 60mm spacer. That prescription requires the additional purchase of TSP and 60mm spacer. If you when with a Size Large, short stem RISE bar, TSP then you'd only need a single 20mm spacer and three 5mm spacers - then you'd have additional purchase of rise bar and TSP.

If I've said anything in here that has left you curious please get back to me and I'll explain. Also, if you'd like me to flesh out the 2019 bike let me know, I'm happy to do it.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Dec 27, 18 9:30
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Timely thread as I am looking at a CF as we speak. I believe that a small is what I am looking for but confirmation would be great.


Dave_o,

You are right the money with a small. It should have a short stem and pads nearly dead center to get your Pad X of 470. The best result for your Pad Y of 610 is a flat bar with a single 60mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer. You could get it done with the rise bar as well with two 20mm spacers + a single 5mm spacer - The bike comes with the flat bar and, one could argue the aesthetic of that superior.

Ian

Hi Ian, wondering if I could ask a follow up question to your suggestion. Can you confirm which model Speedmax this would be applicable to? I believe that this is the CF SLX rather than the CF and just want to confirm. The reason that I ask is that I purchased a CF and got pretty close to pad y 610 with a single 10mm spacer. Either my measurements are way off or the suggestion that you provided were specific to the CF SLX.

Thanks again for the help!
Dave
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [dave_o] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I purchased a CF and got pretty close to pad y 610 with a single 10mm spacer

Dave,

Ugh! You're right. I blew it. My script for was for the SLX and not for the CF. It's funny because the SLX is a full blow super bike and it's actually become easier for me to hit the details on that bike than the CF which is sort of half way between a super bike and a mortal bike.

So you got to the Pad Y with just a 10mm spacer - great! To get your Pad X you've got essentially 2 items with which to play: stem (Canyon makes a 70, 80, and 90mm) and then the different holes in the arm pads.

Were you able to get the Pad X perfect? I'm assuming your small came with a 70mm stem.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
I purchased a CF and got pretty close to pad y 610 with a single 10mm spacer

Dave,

Ugh! You're right. I blew it. My script for was for the SLX and not for the CF. It's funny because the SLX is a full blow super bike and it's actually become easier for me to hit the details on that bike than the CF which is sort of half way between a super bike and a mortal bike.

So you got to the Pad Y with just a 10mm spacer - great! To get your Pad X you've got essentially 2 items with which to play: stem (Canyon makes a 70, 80, and 90mm) and then the different holes in the arm pads.

Were you able to get the Pad X perfect? I'm assuming your small came with a 70mm stem.

Ian

Great, I feel much better about my measurements now! I have the single 10mm spacer and am somewhere between 605 and 610, so pretty close there. Right now I am at a pad x 460 with the 80mm stem that came with the small and close to center on the pads. Looks like I could rotate the pads and get a bit closer although I think that I am going to try 460 for awhile.
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