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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Sorry if this has been covered already, it's a long thread!

Question regarding the basic CF, and the pad stack range given on canyon website.

Does lowest pad stack for a given size include removing the big old 25mm spacer under the stem?

Thanks.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Thanks for sharing your insight on the Speedmax sizing. I'm interested in purchasing the CF 8.0. I'd love to go to a local shop and get a dynamic fitting, but that isn't an option for me right now. I have not done a dynamic fitting in the past either so I don't know what my pad x and pad y are. I took my height and inseam measurements and they are 194.5 cm and 88.5 cm, respectively. Canyon's PPS suggests a large, but it seems like I am right on the border of a large and extra large. My current bike is a Cervelo R2 (61 cm frame), with a saddle height of 81.5 cm (measured from center of bottom bracket to top of saddle) and 175mm cranks. My goal races will be half and full distance Ironmans and for a 29 year old male, I have good not great hamstring flexibility. What size would you recommend?

Thanks for your help,

Keane
Last edited by: keanejohnson: Oct 18, 20 15:29
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for your insight Ian. I think this will also match with the older model?
Sadly the Canyon´s offers went off and there aren´t anymore M size left for the bike. I am looking for a used bike or a better black friday offer.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
I am looking for a Speedmax CF SLX with the following coordinates.
Pad Y: 700 Stack
Pad X : 510 reach

I am 183cm tall and my saddle height is about 790. I use a 172.5crank. I have attached a simple drawing.

Presently, I am using a Speedmax CF SL L size. The measurements above are taken off the the current bike.
Based on what i have seen in this thread, the 700 seems quite high for someone my height. Measured the stack couple of times, and thats what i got.

Please help me decide if the L size is what i need to go with for the SLX.

Thanks.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [funkbanana] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [funkbanana] [ In reply to ]
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Hi there,
I am interested in a Speedmax. I currently ride a road bike with clip ons. I know that doesn’t translate well but here are the measurements:

pad stack 660
Pad reach 475
Seat at 767
54cm Trek Madone with ProfileDesign Airstryke clip ons

I am 176cm tall w 81cm inseam. The above setup leaves me a feeling a bit cramped upfront I just couldn’t move the pads any further forward given the equipment constraints.

I asked same setup advice for Cervelo and came out for a 56cm. I know I ride pretty tall but the canyon seems like it might be to low for me. I am usually medium for everything but don’t want to mess this decision up. Any advice you can offer is appreciated.
Thanks.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey there Ian,

I'm considering either a CF or SLX and would love your thoughts on sizing. I'm currently on a size medium Speed Concept 2.5 (the 2011 version) and it fits decently. My roadie is a Cervelo R5 (2018) size 54.

Here are my measurements as taken in January with Steve from Bike Effect Santa Monica:

Height: 171.1cm
Inseam: 82.0cm
Wingspan: 179.0cm
Weight: 166lbs
Shoulder Width: 42.0cm
Sitbone Spacing: 120mm


Saddle X: 16.0cm
Saddle Y: 64.5cm
Handlebar X: 42.9cm
Handlebar Y: 66.0cm
Cranks: 165mm


The Canyon site tells me size S, but I'm thinking M would be more in my wheelhouse. Worth noting, I expect to be bringing those pads lower in the next year as I continue to work on position and flexibility.

Your thoughts are much appreciated!

Casey
Last edited by: Cacaster: Oct 23, 20 14:44
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [zlooney] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,

I am looking into the Speedmax CF SLX and would love your input.
Pad X: 450 (BB to Back of Pad)
Pad Y: 600
Saddle Height: 745
Thanks!

zlooney,
You're a medium on the Speedmax CF. Canyon charts their Pad X to center so I added 25mm to estimate that and ran with Pad Y of 600 and Pad X of 475. That fits nicely into the middle of the medium's range so you have room to move fore/aft, up/down as you like. That bike comes stock with an 80mm stem - which will be perfect and it comes stock with 175mm cranks which I consider very much imperfect. Be ready to swap those out for something closer to 165 and, if you're doin' that - perhaps add power in the process??

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian!

I am definitely planning on swapping out for 165mm cranks.

Would a Medium be the way to go for the SLX model as well?

Thanks
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Cacaster] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hey there Ian,

I'm considering either a CF or SLX and would love your thoughts on sizing. I'm currently on a size medium Speed Concept 2.5 (the 2011 version) and it fits decently. My roadie is a Cervelo R5 (2018) size 54.
Here are my measurements as taken in January with Steve from Bike Effect Santa Monica:

Height: 171.1cm
Inseam: 82.0cm
Wingspan: 179.0cm
Weight: 166lbs
Shoulder Width: 42.0cm
Sitbone Spacing: 120mm


Saddle X: 16.0cm
Saddle Y: 64.5cm
Handlebar X: 42.9cm
Handlebar Y: 66.0cm
Cranks: 165mm


The Canyon site tells me size S, but I'm thinking M would be more in my wheelhouse. Worth noting, I expect to be bringing those pads lower in the next year as I continue to work on position and flexibility.
Your thoughts are much appreciated! Casey

Casey,
I know Steve, respect him as a fitter. I live not to far from Bike Effect's erstwhile location. I was sorry to see them close.
I know you're pressed for time and I suspect you're in my area so here's my criteria:
1) If you've got Steve's fit sheet then I'm assuming (hoping) that he noted your Pad Y and Pad X - those are the numbers I really need. And If you can post those here I can confirm lots of stuff for your new Canyon Speedmax (CF or SLX).
2) If you don't have Pad Y and Pad X but you do live in the LA area then call me (see DM) and we'll measure it together at my fit studio as soon as tomorrow.
3) If all else fails I can make my recomendation based on the info above.

Let me know, I'm on this thread tonight so I'll get back ASAP, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [jn46] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,
Sorry if this has been covered already, it's a long thread!
Question regarding the basic CF, and the pad stack range given on canyon website.
Does lowest pad stack for a given size include removing the big old 25mm spacer under the stem?
Thanks.

jn46,
Yes, the Pad Y/Pad X ranges are the complete and total ranges to fit the rider to the bike so when we talk about riding as low as possible (and small Pad Y number) that would be available to someone by removing that spacer. I have often used one of Cobb's super thin headset-top caps (seen HERE). Those are close to my heart because John Cobb was visiting one of the F.I.S.T bike fit seminars at Slowtwitch HQ when I was bitching about how thick (tall) most (Specialized and Cannondale esp) headset top caps were. John drew something up on a napkin at lunch, we discussed it, and a month later he had finished a production run of something like 10,000 from his supplier - I was blown away.

Another side note on this - when the stem gets "slammed" the bento box on the CF gets a little exposed as it sits above the elevation of the top of the stem. That doesn't bother me but I did have one customer in my fit studio wasn't happen with less aero esthetic.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [keanejohnson] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,

Thanks for sharing your insight on the Speedmax sizing. I'm interested in purchasing the CF 8.0. I'd love to go to a local shop and get a dynamic fitting, but that isn't an option for me right now. I have not done a dynamic fitting in the past either so I don't know what my pad x and pad y are. I took my height and inseam measurements and they are 194.5 cm and 88.5 cm, respectively. Canyon's PPS suggests a large, but it seems like I am right on the border of a large and extra large. My current bike is a Cervelo R2 (61 cm frame), with a saddle height of 81.5 cm (measured from center of bottom bracket to top of saddle) and 175mm cranks. My goal races will be half and full distance Ironmans and for a 29 year old male, I have good not great hamstring flexibility. What size would you recommend?

Thanks for your help,



Keane,
Based on what you've given me here (and it's good enough to go on) I suspect your Pad Y is around 680 and your Pad X is roughly 525. So the XL is the bike for you. Both the Large and XL can meet you for our Pad Y but the Large is a hair short on the Pad X*.

Keep in mind... your road seat height currently is 815....for tri it could be around 820 and you should be on shorter cranks for tri - 170s maybe, even 165s and then your seat height would go up some more to 825 (for 170 cranks) and 830 (for 165s). This is all speculation of course but the direction of numbers is what I want you to see and to know that the XL will satisfy all those numbers as well too.


*If something happens with stock, you've got to have this bike and the XL just isn't available then my suggestion is this: get the Large, remove Canyon's 90mm stem that comes on it and get any 110mm stem from the open market (I think a Profile-Design Aeria would look great on here). The steer tube is 1 1/8 and the base bar is 31.8 and those are the standard now.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Howdy Ian.
Let's add one more prospective client to the mix. Currently on a 10yo Felt B-series, size 56. Looking at the Speedmax CF 8.0 Di2, which is a pretty screaming value right now. Am I correct that the only difference with the LTD model is Zipp over Swiss wheels? I might be the odd man out, but I'd like to stick with rim brakes -- being able to share with the wife scores some goodwill points.

Professional fit last year got me
Seat height 745
Pad Y 640
Pad X 510
and 160mm cranks -- Rotor Aldhu with a Power2Max PM -- which I would like to port over from the Felt, but I fear BB/spindle compatibility...

I'd probably switch out the RD, too, to a GS -- Lake Placid is (again) the goal race for next year, assuming racing resumes.

And putting 5'11, 32 inseam into the Speedmax page suggests S, which surprises me a little. But I know I should trust the process, trust the numbers.

Cheers,
Bob



ianpeace wrote:
If you are looking to buy a Canyon Speedmax and you want to make sure you get the right size, touch base right here on this thread. Best practices are for you to post your Pad Y, Pad X (AKA Pad Stack, Pad Reach) and I will prescribe the proper Speedmax for you. If you don’t know your Pad Y & Pad X then let me assist you in identifying those coordinates.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for the info Ian!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian. I'll be considering both CF and slx when canyon release the anticipated disc models. Unfortunately fit wise for the CF (if geo stays the same) I've already factored in having to get a longer stem than canyon provide so would have lost the flush fit anyway.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Juha] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thank you for your insight Ian. I think this will also match with the older model?
Sadly the Canyon´s offers went off and there aren´t anymore M size left for the bike. I am looking for a used bike or a better black friday offer.


Juha,
The only thing I want you to be careful of is this... the 2019 CF is built with an aerobar that sits just a bit lower on the base bar (Profile-Design Subsonic) and 2018 and older CFs are built with a aerobar (Profile-Design...I think it was called a SuperSonic but maybe just Sonic now) so the 2018 Pad X is just a hair higher and the 2019 bike is just a hair lower - very similar though.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [funkbanana] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,
I am looking for a Speedmax CF SLX with the following coordinates.
Pad Y: 700 Stack
Pad X : 510 reach
I am 183cm tall and my saddle height is about 790. I use a 172.5crank. I have attached a simple drawing.
Presently, I am using a Speedmax CF SL L size. The measurements above are taken off the the current bike.
Based on what i have seen in this thread, the 700 seems quite high for someone my height. Measured the stack couple of times, and thats what i got.

Please help me decide if the L size is what i need to go with for the SLX.

funkbanana,
Really good drawing, helps confirm, thanks for including that.
A Pad Y of 700 is high. If I just took the numbers you gave me (height, saddle height) I'd predict your Pad Y to be 635-655. You and I are same height and our seat height is 3mm different. My Pad Y is 645. The size Large XLS maxes out at a Pad Y of 685 and I don't like to build it past 675 unless I have to (it requires some aftermarket bits to get that last 10mm).

Here is my suspicion... you're riding too shallow in seat angle. By that I mean your hips are too far behind the bottom bracket. This can be because you're on a saddle that only offers comfort when you're sitting back on rear of it. This can be because the saddle is clamped too far back on the rail or the post. If I'm right in my suspicion then something is keeping your hips back there and when you move 'em forward either with a new saddle or by sliding this existing saddle forward then EVERYTHING with change - the same comfort or more comfort (always the first priority), the same power or more power (the second priority), and your front end will move both forward and down (especially if you put a 165 crank on there, but even if you stay with this 172.5). Then you're Pad Y will be down to something more like 650-660 and your Pad X will move out to something more like 520-525.

To confirm my suspicions....I'd like to know what saddle you're using, I'd like to know the set-back of that saddle (how far behind the center of the bottom bracket it sits when bike is level - you can measure this by dangling plumb line off the nose of the saddle and measuring the gap from string to center of bottom bracket), and I'd like to see a profile pic of you riding in aero with the bike level.

Let me know if you can deliver that here, I want to investigate deeper.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [GuidoDoc] [ In reply to ]
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Hi there,
I am interested in a Speedmax. I currently ride a road bike with clip ons. I know that doesn’t translate well but here are the measurements:
pad stack 660
Pad reach 475
Seat at 767
54cm Trek Madone with ProfileDesign Airstryke clip ons
I am 176cm tall w 81cm inseam. The above setup leaves me a feeling a bit cramped upfront I just couldn’t move the pads any further forward given the equipment constraints.
I asked same setup advice for Cervelo and came out for a 56cm. I know I ride pretty tall but the canyon seems like it might be to low for me. I am usually medium for everything but don’t want to mess this decision up. Any advice you can offer is appreciated.
Thanks.

GuidoDoc,
You ride a hair taller than most because you've got long legs for your height. It's not a problem and it's easy to anticipate and account for. But the reason your Pad Y is tall on your current step is.... the Stack (and I mean the real meaning of "STACK", the height of the headtube on your bike) is probably much higher than a tri bike (not sure if you're on an H1, H2, or H3 geometry of Madone) and then the Airstryke sits another 50ish mm above the base bar and all this without me knowing the pitch of the stem or the spacers under it. Also the seat tube angle on all road bikes is far shallower and when you move steeper with triathlon geometry the front end can then go both forward and down lower. It's just a totally different position....and... to that end....

I think your Pad Y should be around 630-640. If you had just told me your height & inseam I would have put your Pad X at 480 so that speaks to your feeling.

If you wanted the Speedmax SLX (the super bike) then it would be a Medium with the short stem that comes stock on it. The arm pad mounted in either the rear-most hole or just one forward and 40mm of arm pad pedestal.

If you wanted the Speedmax CF (the mortal bike) then it would be the Medium with 80mm stem that comes stock on it. The Pad Y on this bike goes up to 672 but really, with a proper fit I bet you'd land nearer to 635.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [zlooney] [ In reply to ]
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Would a Medium be the way to go for the SLX model as well?

zlooney,
Yes and I can be more specific in the prescription for the SLX:

Size Medium, short stem that comes stock, pads all the way back and 5mm of arm pad pedestal. Here's the rub on the medium: you can only go 5mm lower and then you're at the Pad X/arm pad drop limit. You can bring the pads closer (as much as 25mm closer) but you'd need an aftermarket item called a TSP (Team Switch Plate). What this means is the Medium is on big side for you and while there's tons of room to go longer and higher with the front end, there's only a bit of room to go lower and shorter in the front end.

Which then makes me detail the Small...

Size Small, short stem that comes stock, pads pretty much in the center, 35mm of arm pad pedestal. From here you can go up with pads 10mm higher with ease and then 10mm more beyond that with an aftermarket item and the fore-aft range is extensive.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome, thank you for your help!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [drwales] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Howdy Ian.
Let's add one more prospective client to the mix. Currently on a 10yo Felt B-series, size 56. Looking at the Speedmax CF 8.0 Di2, which is a pretty screaming value right now. Am I correct that the only difference with the LTD model is Zipp over Swiss wheels? I might be the odd man out, but I'd like to stick with rim brakes -- being able to share with the wife scores some goodwill points.
Professional fit last year got me
Seat height 745
Pad Y 640
Pad X 510
and 160mm cranks -- Rotor Aldhu with a Power2Max PM -- which I would like to port over from the Felt, but I fear BB/spindle compatibility...
I'd probably switch out the RD, too, to a GS -- Lake Placid is (again) the goal race for next year, assuming racing resumes.
And putting 5'11, 32 inseam into the Speedmax page suggests S, which surprises me a little. But I know I should trust the process, trust the numbers.


drwales,
Lots of good detail in here, thank you.

For the Speedmax CF, and Pad Y of 640 and a Pad X of 510.... you ride pretty long here's my advice on all of it...Get a medium. Your Pad Y of 640 will fall in the middle of the range and you'll have the freedom to raise or lower your pads as you see fit. Your Pad X of 510 will not happen with the 80mm stem that comes stock (bike maxes out at 492 with that stem) so put on any 100mm, -6 degree stem (like the Profile Design Aeria). Both the steer tube (1 1/8) and the bar clamp (31.8) are standard and easy to find.

For sure you have to keep the 160mm Rotor Cranks w/ power meter so call 801-393-4822 and speak to Joel or Lori and explain the situation and ask about bottom bracket you'll need to make your cranks work on this bike. You can pull the Ultegra cranks that come on the bike and sell 'em as new, never ridden.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian, congratulations for this thread, it's really great.

I would very much appreciate your help in finding the right Speedmax SLX for me.

My measurements in cms are (maybe not super precise because I took them myself):
Inseam: 83.5
Torso: 65
Arm length: 62
Lower leg length: 44

I've been riding on a Felt road bike with aerobars (size 54). Saddle height to bottom bracket is 72.5cms and it has a 170mm crank. The Speedmax will be my first tri specific bike.

Hope this information is sufficient.

All the best,

Douglas
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [dfrancoanzola] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian, congratulations for this thread, it's really great.

I would very much appreciate your help in finding the right Speedmax SLX for me.
My measurements in cms are (maybe not super precise because I took them myself):
Inseam: 83.5
Torso: 65
Arm length: 62
Lower leg length: 44
I've been riding on a Felt road bike with aerobars (size 54). Saddle height to bottom bracket is 72.5cms and it has a 170mm crank. The Speedmax will be my first tri specific bike.Hope this information is sufficient.

Douglas,
Thank you for the kind words, happy to help people be comfortable, powerful, aero, on a bicycle!!!
How tall are you overall - that number (plus the items listed above) will allow me to prescribe the ride Speedmax for you, and you can give it to me in ft/in or cm what ever is easiest for you.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I’m 175cm tall

Thanks Ian!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Howdy Ian
Thanks you for doing a great job helping people to find the right fit. I am a newbie and need help. I was thinking of buying a new CF or SLX. I went to a local bike fitter in FL and got measured.
Saddle height 753
Arm pad stack 669
Frame stack 551
Frame reach 376
Arm pad width 231
Arm pad reach 427
I am 172 cm tall
He recommended CF small size and said that SLX may not be ideal fit. He said something about not being able to adjust the SLX model.
What do you recommend? Really appreciate your time and effort. Thanks a lot.
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