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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [EquatorTri] [ In reply to ]
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Hi - thanks in advance for your help!
I’m interested in a Speedmax CF SLX 9.0 LTD.
Pad Stack (y) - 693mm ( although I’d like to go lower)
Pad reach (x) - 500mm ( to back of the pad )
I’m 5’10.5 with a 31” inseam and a long torso and very long arms.

EquatorTri,

Thanks for the rebump.
For the SLX using Pad Y of 693 and Pad X of 550 (Canyon measures to the center of the pad). The Pad X of 550 is no problem, the large will get to 550 on the short stem that comes stock on the bike. You'd simply move the arm cups out to the maximum (552) or back one hole ~540 and you'd have something you'd love. The Pad Y is trouble spot. The maximum Pad Y on the biggest bike (large) is 685. Typically I'm good with 2, 3, even 4mm off of fit coordinates but this 8 and that troubles me. I don't know how long ago this fit was done or if you have the ability to go lower. I'd be so curious to know your arm pad elevation (aka drop).

The CF on the other hand...you'd fit on the XL bike (Y range is 634-721) and you'd need to remove the 90mm stem that comes stock on that bike and install a 110stem to get the length in the cockpit you need.

Get back to me with questions if you have 'em.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [CajunCannon] [ In reply to ]
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CajunCannon,
I do not know of any XS in existence - under small pros or in the works.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Antthom] [ In reply to ]
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I'm thinking of moving from Cervelo to a speedmax.
My current current bike is Cervelo P3 XS and the Canyon online calculator indicates S size, however i think based on my measurements i could better suited to Canyon XS.
- Pad stack = 600mmm (center of pad)
- Pad reach = 440m (center of pad)
- Saddle seatback from BB = -15mm
- Stem 85mm
- Height = 168cm
- Inseam = 78cm
- Saddle height = 760mm
- Crank length = 170mm (thinking of moving to 160 or 165mm).

Antthom,
If you were after the Canyon Speedmax SLX it would be the Small, you'd use the short stem that comes stock on the bike and you would need to purchase a TSP (Team Switch Plate) to pull the pads back another 14mm (shortest w/o TSP is 453, shortest w/ TSP is 426). Then you'd use 35mm of arm pad pedestal to get your pads at the proper elevation. A great set up.

If you were after a Canyon Speedmax CF it would be an XS for sure and you'd be right in the sweet spot of that bike with the 70mm stem that comes stock on it.

I want to put this note in here now in anticipation of future changes.... you didn't include your arm pad elevation (drop) but via a little math I know it's sizable. I want to urge you to go to 160mm cranks (Cobb, Rotor, InfoCrank, etc). The Canyon you buy will not have that length (nor would any other bike) so pull the cranks that come on the bike before you ride and sell them as "unridden". Also, when you go to a shorter crank your seat height will go up. To maintain the same drop the arm pads will go up too and... finally, I get to the point..... both of the bikes prescribed above will get to that new pad elevation with all the hardware included. AND... it's possible that with shorter cranks you can ride with a bit lower drop and, of course, both bikes mentioned above will meet you where you want to be. Whew! Thanks for surviving all that blather.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian!

The fit was done about 6 months ago and I’ve definitely gone lower since. I took about 8 years off from Triathlon and I’m just getting back into it. I’m in my early 40’s and my fitness and flexibility are coming back great.

My Arm Pad Drop was -59MM when I did the fit.

What is the range of Y on the size Large CF SLX 9.0?

Thanks!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian:
I am part of team Paragon with Mark Saroni, I met you back in June at the 365 Canyon event in Austin Texas.
I am exploring the idea to get a new bike , could you help me find out what is my right size?
My measurements are:
Saddle distance to crank hub: 28
Inseam: 32
Hight: 6ft


Thank you
Agustin
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [EquatorTri] [ In reply to ]
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607-694

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [tinsalvat] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I met you back in June at the 365 Canyon event in Austin Texas.
I am exploring the idea to get a new bike , could you help me find out what is my right size?
My measurements are:
Saddle distance to crank hub: 28
Inseam: 32
Hight: 6ft


Agustin,

Thanks for jumping in here. There is a progression of pre-fitting; that is to say spec'ing the Pad Y and Pad X of a bike an athlete will purchase that will fit them. The best way is a comprehensive fit with a bike fitter who is 1) Educated (FIST/Guru/Retul), 2) Experienced (100+ tri bike fits), and 3) has the proper Tooling in a dynamic fit bike (Purely Custom, Guru DFU, Muve, Exit). The next best are those Express Fits that Dan and I were doing at the Slowtwitch Road Show presented by Canyon, at Austin. The Express Fit doesn't give the fit coordinates (no seat height, no set back, no cockpit distance, no drop), it only results in Pad Y and Pad X for purchase. The third best way is to take the numbers off an existing tri bike that an athlete has at home, one that fits pretty well, feels pretty good - and I've guided many into measure that at home with basic stuff. The fourth best way is what I'm about to do here: I'm gonna take some numbers from your existing road bike, and your morphology and come up with a Pad Y and Pad X that will help you buy a new tri bike. Here goes...

You've got slightly longer legs and shorter torso creating your height. To that end...I'd say your Pad Y is ~640 and your Pad X is ~494. Based on that.. If you were to buy a Canyon Speedmax CF the proper bike would be a size large and the 90mm stem that comes stock on that bike would put you nicely in the middle of the range.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
Thank you for the answer and advice.
Antthom
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Ian

I'm trying to figure out if I am going to fit on either the SL or SLX frame. I've only ridden a road bike before and as this thread has repeated multiple times the numbers from a road bike might be meaningless.
So I'll just post my body measurements from the previous bike fit and hopefully that will give you enough info to approximate my pad X, pad Y. I'm 1.98cm tall, the inseam is 93.5cm, torso is 69cm, current seat height is 83cm.
The guy that did my road bike fit told me that my torso is longer than average and that concerns me if it would be possible to get the required Pad X length on any of the Canyon frames as I am already pretty tall.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

I was hoping to get your opinion. I am currently on a Speedmax CF, size small. Recently, I've been getting knee pain on the bike (not during running), and I'm beginning to wonder if I am on the wrong size. Previously, I was on a BMC TM01 (2014) and that felt much more comfortable. I tried to cross reference the two, but didn't exactly get the answer I was looking for, mostly accounted for my lack of knowledge on fit measurements. I am 5'9. Would love your opinion and let me know if you need any more information.

Thanks,
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Homulvas] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Ian

I'm trying to figure out if I am going to fit on either the SL or SLX frame. I've only ridden a road bike before and as this thread has repeated multiple times the numbers from a road bike might be meaningless. So I'll just post my body measurements from the previous bike fit and hopefully that will give you enough info to approximate my pad X, pad Y. I'm 1.98cm tall, the inseam is 93.5cm, torso is 69cm, current seat height is 83cm. The guy that did my road bike fit told me that my torso is longer than average and that concerns me if it would be possible to get the required Pad X length on any of the Canyon frames as I am already pretty tall.

Homulvas,
No doubt that a proper fitting road bike and a proper fitting tri bike are different. I like to reiterate this often: best way buy a tri bike: get a prefit done by an educated, experienced triathlon fitter who uses a dynamic fit bike....next best way: measure off an existing tri bike that fits pretty well...next best is giving me the numbers you offered and letting me massage then into a formula that's pretty darn good.

To that end...I think your Pad Y is ~688 and your Pad X is ~540

Let's start with the Canyon Speedmax SLX (this is the super bike). You'd be a size Large, with a short stem (comes stock), pads mounted dead center, and you would need everything they make as pedestal: 55mm of spacer + an aftermarket item called the "High Stack Flat Spring". The max Pad Y on this bike is 685 and I'm guessing your Pad Y at 688. So if I'm dead-on, it's 3mm too low and, hey, 3mm, that's not that big of a deal. But there's no going up. This is the max.

Let's now prescribe the Canyon Speedmax CF (this is the mortal bike). You'd need a size Extra Large and you'd be right in the middle, the sweet spot of this bike with the stock stem that comes on it. This is for sure a safer bet for you in terms of fit.

Get back to me here if you have more questions.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Homulvas,
No doubt that a proper fitting road bike and a proper fitting tri bike are different. I like to reiterate this often: best way buy a tri bike: get a prefit done by an educated, experienced triathlon fitter who uses a dynamic fit bike....next best way: measure off an existing tri bike that fits pretty well...next best is giving me the numbers you offered and letting me massage then into a formula that's pretty darn good.

To that end...I think your Pad Y is ~688 and your Pad X is ~540

Let's start with the Canyon Speedmax SLX (this is the super bike). You'd be a size Large, with a short stem (comes stock), pads mounted dead center, and you would need everything they make as pedestal: 55mm of spacer + an aftermarket item called the "High Stack Flat Spring". The max Pad Y on this bike is 685 and I'm guessing your Pad Y at 688. So if I'm dead-on, it's 3mm too low and, hey, 3mm, that's not that big of a deal. But there's no going up. This is the max.

Let's now prescribe the Canyon Speedmax CF (this is the mortal bike). You'd need a size Extra Large and you'd be right in the middle, the sweet spot of this bike with the stock stem that comes on it. This is for sure a safer bet for you in terms of fit.

Get back to me here if you have more questions.

Ian
Thanks for the reply

Just clarify the website says that the armpad reach of the CF XL is 508 - 533 MM wouldn't that be a problem if my pad X is ~540?
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Homulvas] [ In reply to ]
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Ay Caramba! Homulvas, thanks for catching that. Yes, while the 688 fits perfectly into the Y range of the CF in XL (634-721), the X comes up short. That bike comes with a 90mm stem - the longest that Canyon offers. The steer tube (1 1/8) and bar clamp (31.8) are standard on this bike so any 100mm stem would then satisfy the needs of your cockpit. Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi there,
I'm thinking of buying a Speedmax CF 8.0 Di2 tri bike. According to the Canyon website I should take a size M. For my road bike I already did a bike fit and there they mentioned I rather have a tall upper body. So to be really sure I call upon you guys. Thanks for that!

Y pad: 668 mm
X pad: 496 mm

height: 182 cm

Hoping this can help,
many greetings from Belgium,
Stijn Ylode


Y pad 668 mm

X pad 496 m
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Stijn Ylode] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi there,
I'm thinking of buying a Speedmax CF 8.0 Di2 tri bike. According to the Canyon website I should take a size M. For my road bike I already did a bike fit and there they mentioned I rather have a tall upper body. So to be really sure I call upon you guys. Thanks for that!
Y pad: 668 mm X pad: 496 mm
height: 182 cm
Hoping this can help,
many greetings from Belgium,
Stijn Ylode

Stijn Ylode,
Thanks for checking in. You're a size Large and this is because the longest the Medium goes is 492. The Large will have your Pad Y nicely in the middle of the range so you can go up or down if your position changes. The Pad X of 496 is good too as the you can still have room to move fore 'n aft if need be. The large makes sense if your height is made up a longer upper body and shorter legs.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
thank you very much! My gut feeling to consult you was correct.
Good luck with everything you're doing and thanks again,
Stijn Ylode
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
back again with just one question. I've noticed that the saddle height on the L frame (Speedmax CF) is ranged between 753 - 883 mm. My current saddle height on my road bike is 77,5 cm and my inseam is 85 cm. Doesn't that leave me with very little or too little room to maneuver/adjust in time, given the 175 mm bracket and use of thin cleats and shoe soles?
(Or am I completely wrong to base this on a bike fit of a road bike?)
Many greetings and thank you,
Stijn Ylode
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Stijn Ylode] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,
back again with just one question. I've noticed that the saddle height on the L frame (Speedmax CF) is ranged between 753 - 883 mm. My current saddle height on my road bike is 77,5 cm and my inseam is 85 cm. Doesn't that leave me with very little or too little room to maneuver/adjust in time, given the 175 mm bracket and use of thin cleats and shoe soles?

Stijn,
My spec sheet says that the seat height range on a size large CF is 715-895. Even if the range was 753-883 the expectation is that your road seat height of 775 would be a hair higher for tri (780+) and then higher still if you went from a 175 crank to a 165mm crank for example (790ish). I think you've got lots of room to move in there.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
thanks for your swift reply! You really got me ready to go! Ready to go large! :)
All the very best,
Stijn
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

Any chance you could provide some insight on my post from the other day? Sorry to bother! I just wanted some opinions from the resident expert! Thank you!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [onceatriathlet3] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Ian,
I was hoping to get your opinion. I am currently on a Speedmax CF, size small. Recently, I've been getting knee pain on the bike (not during running), and I'm beginning to wonder if I am on the wrong size. Previously, I was on a BMC TM01 (2014) and that felt much more comfortable. I tried to cross reference the two, but didn't exactly get the answer I was looking for, mostly accounted for my lack of knowledge on fit measurements. I am 5'9. Would love your opinion and let me know if you need any more information.

onceatriathlet3,
There's no way I (or anyone) could diagnose this via text on a forum. That doesn't mean I cannot help. "I was on (old bike) and was much more comfortable" - let's start right there. Have you had your new bike fitted to you?That's the best thing to do with any new bike. Short of that: if you are comfortable on one bike and you duplicate that position on a new bike then you're typically good to go. I would begin by getting the BMC level (in a trainer is best, having someone hold it might work too) and then measure out the seat height (same crank length?), the saddle set-back (same saddle I hope), the cockpit distance (nose of saddle to back arm pad and to the end of the aerobar), then the arm pad elevation. Then recreate that with your new bike.

Now, onto a series of other potential knee pain causing issues...
  • same shoes?
  • cleats? new, old, same position, are the worn?
  • training volume?
  • gearing difference on new bike to old bike?
  • strength work?
  • run volume?
  • body maintenance (massage, stretching, rolling)?
  • trauma (trip, fall, weird turn playing soccer with kids)?
  • new push off in pool?
  • have you seen a PT to inquire about the knee issue?

When we triathletes have an injury we really want it to be one thing: "it's gotta be those new shoes" or "my desk chair moved two weeks ago and I know it's not the same". Most of the time an injury isn't attached to one thing - it's a series of small things over a long period of time.

I really want you to get a good bike fit from a fitter who has the proper tooling, the education, and the experience in triathlon. Tell where you live and let's see if I have a good fitter in your area.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry. I think I got too far into it. Let me rephrase my question. If someone is 175cm, would you recommend a small or medium size?
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [onceatriathlet3] [ In reply to ]
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Ok good, we're back in my lane. I've got your height at 175cm - do know your saddle height and if not I'll take inseam. With that I can answer your query.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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My last fit had me at 735mm for saddle height.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [onceatriathlet3] [ In reply to ]
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I think your Pad Y is somewhere around 612 and your Pad X is roughly 472. You are almost exactly in the middle of the range for the Pad Y of the Speedmax CF in a size small, and you are up against the edge of this bike for the longest the cockpit will go. So the short is "yes" the small fits you unless you like to ride a more obtuse shoulder angle while in aero and then you'd want to swap the 80mm stem that comes stock on this bike for a 90 and then you'd have more length in the cockpit.

Keep in mind, what I talk about here on this thread is not so much "bike fit" but "bike sizing". The bike fitting I do is in person, it's detailed, and it results in lots of coordinates (seat height, set back, saddle tilt, arm pad width, aerobar tilt, etc. etc.). The idea on this thread is just what you're asking: "what size bike is right for me". I'm sitting here are my keyboard confident that you've got the right sized bike but still worried about your knee pain. I wish I could do more for you on that subject. If you're even in the Los Angeles area (with our without your bike) let me know and we'll meet in my studio to investigate. If that's not gonna happen soon than I'd like to try and find a fitter near you.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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