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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Dennis,

If you remove the front wheel. Is there a reversible dropout that holds the axle? And, if so, which way is it positioned?

Ian

Hi Ian,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, there is a reversible dropout that pushes front wheel few millimeters forward, those making wheelbase a bit longer. Seems that it's not enough to maintain proper center-forward balance for me... Not sure what else can be done there. I was looking for angled spacers so that I can stretch against armrest, which would possible add me some confidence, but these spacers are only available for previous models, not for 2019
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
Drop here!
I'm in for my first tri bike- opting for a canyon speedmax CF 8.0.

My measurements are:
height: 174
inseam: 85
saddle height: 75

From reading your advice on the forum, I could go S or M (measurements are quite near someone named Roman) - so I wanted to go for:

Speedmax CF 8.0 size M
change possibly to shorter stem of 70
change the cranks (175) to 165 cranks (or maybe even smaller ??)

Would that sound right ? How would I ideally set up the bike in terms of padX/Y, saddle and other ?

Many thanks in advance for your help, Ian. I'd like to progress this year from 70.3 to a full ironman, so will be enjoying quite some time on the bike:-)
bart
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

I've got the CF SLX on my short list for a new bike but I'm stuck on what size. I'm thinking small, but......

My saddle height is 720mm (forgot the setback)

Pad X is 510mm BB to pad center
Pad Y is 610mm BB to pad center

Any input you can offer would be great.

Thanks!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [bartbecks] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,
I'm in for my first tri bike- opting for a canyon speedmax CF 8.0.

My measurements are: height: 174 inseam: 85 saddle height: 75
From reading your advice on the forum, I could go S or M (measurements are quite near someone named Roman) - so I wanted to go for:

Speedmax CF 8.0 size M, change possibly to shorter stem of 70 , change the cranks (175) to 165 cranks (or maybe even smaller ??)
Would that sound right ? How would I ideally set up the bike in terms of padX/Y, saddle and other ?
Many thanks in advance for your help, Ian. I'd like to progress this year from 70.3 to a full ironman, so will be enjoying quite some time on the bike:-)

Bart,
Based on your numbers you've got pretty long legs for a guy your height. I'm thinkin' your Pad Y is ~617 and Pad X is ~472

For the Canyon Speedmax CF you have two options (and it's nice to have two options as availability can be an issue)

Option 1 - get a size small, push the pads all the way out to their maximum to get the Pad X of 472, and the Pad Y of 617 is right in the sweet spot of the small's range so you'll have the perfect amount of spacers under the stem so that the top of the stem and the bento are flush..and you'll need ~20mm of arm pad pedestal. This is not the optimal bike because you are maxed at the cockpit distance - now, the bike comes with an 80mm stem so if you feel cramped on the small you could get a 90 and buy yourself some room.

Option 2 - get a size medium, bring the pads not all the way back, but one hole fwd of all the way back and then keep the spacers under the stem but slam the aerobars to the base bar and you should have it. I like this set up better as you've got room to move up/down/fore/aft to find the right spot.

I cannot speak to the saddle set up - not without seeing you (in person is always best, on video can be an option). Seems like you're pretty confident with a seat height of 750mm so that's a good start. My guess is that if you use the Fizik Mistica that comes on the bike the set back on that noseless saddle would be somewhere between 40mm back and Zero depending upon where you sit on the saddle (should be more to the front).

The medium will very likely arrive with 175mm cranks. As you alluded to... pull these off before you ever mount the bike. Install a shorter crank and then sell the old cranks as "never ridden". How short...well, 165 is an easier length because more of them are made. 160 might be better for you especially if you ride a lower drop (AKA arm pad elevation). Sounds like you are already game for short cranks so then the next consideration has to be...if you're buying cranks should you feed two birds with one scone (PETAs new animal friendly re-tooling of an old idiom) and get the new cranks with power?? Prolly!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [A.Hart] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,

I've got the CF SLX on my short list for a new bike but I'm stuck on what size. I'm thinking small, but......
My saddle height is 720mm (forgot the setback)
Pad X is 510mm BB to pad center
Pad Y is 610mm BB to pad center
Any input you can offer would be great.

Thanks!

A.Hart,
When you come with this kind of tight, confident data it makes my life easier! Okay...here's your prescription for a Canyon Speedmax SLX

While you could fit on a small (I'll frame up below) I really think a Medium is better. The Medium set up would use the short stem that comes stock on the bike, the middle arm cup hole, and 15mm of arm pad pedestal. The post would be low in the frame (that is to say, not much seat post exposed) but that's fine. If the aesthetic of that troubles you then.... the small would work: but there are some complications: 1) the pads all the way forward on the short stem yields a Pad Xc of 507. You then have three choices: 1) live with 3mm off of perfect (many can), 2) purchase a TSP from Canyon and then you can push the pads forward some more, or 3) buy the long stem from Canyon and bring the pads one hole forward of all-the-way-back. Also, to get your Pad Y, you're gonna need 45mm of arm pad pedestal - which is fine and not even the max (it'll go 10mm more if you acquire an aftermarket item called a "High Stack Flat Spring").

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

I dont have Pad X and Y from a fitter or a current bike as my current position is no good but I have seen you use other measurements from some posters to derive your view of the X/Y coordinates.

What measurements do you require to assist me with this so I can set my trainer bike up and see if that position gets me closer to my ideal/orthodoxy with the view to upgrading to canyon CF8 in next few months?
Height/inseam/arm length etc?

Appreciate your help
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
Appreciate all the inputs you are giving to us all looking at the speedmax.

Would like your advice on what size you think could fit for me, fit co-ordinates are from Retul fit

Y: 629
X: 408

Currently on a Felt IA 54cm. FYI

Thx
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [hongjai8] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,
Appreciate all the inputs you are giving to us all looking at the speedmax.
Would like your advice on what size you think could fit for me, fit co-ordinates are from Retul fit
Y: 629
X: 408

hongjai8,
I'm moving forward to prescribe a Pad Y of 629 and a Pad X of 458 - I'm betting (hoping) that you're 408 is to the rear of the pad. Canyon, like many manufacturers, speaks to the center of the pad. Most pads are 100mm across so that would be the middle. Get back to me if I've over stepped with this assumption.

For the Canyon Speedmax SLX you'd be a size Medium with the short stem that comes stock on the bike and 35mm of arm pad pedestal. That set up right there is still a hair long so you'd an aftermarket item that Canyon sells called a TSP - that will bring the pads back a bit more and then if you mount them in the middle hole of the arm cup I think you'll have it!

For the Canyon Speedmax CF you'd be a size Small with the 80mm stem that comes stock on the bike. You'd want to keep the spacers under the stem so that the top of the stems stays flush with the top of the bento box and then just about 25mm of pedestal should get you to the 629. For the reach mount the cups 2 holes forward of the all-the-way-back position.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Pad X- 520 (centre)
Pad Y- 655
170mm crank
Saddle height 784

height 186cm
inseam 87cm

Looking at a stock Speedmax CF7 or CF8

cheers
Last edited by: flight<bird: Aug 8, 19 22:25
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [flight<bird] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Pad X- 520 (centre). Pad Y- 655. 170mm crank. Saddle height 784. height 186cm. inseam 87cm
Looking at a stock Speedmax CF7 or CF8

flight<bird,

For the Canyon Speedmax CF you are for sure an XL. That bike comes with a 90mm stem stock and it'll work perfectly with the arm cups mounted one hole back of the forward most position (to achieve your Pad X). For the Pad Y you'll want to leave the 25mm headset top cap in place as it positions the top of the stem flush with the top of the bento box and then I don't think you'll need too much (any?) aerobar pedestal to get the pad height right where you want it. You'll fit on the bike very well.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Ian.


I have a Canyon Speedmax SLX 8.0 2019. I want to raise the front end for 10 mms and change my extensions to longer ones. My questions are, do I need to buy an angled spacer to raise the front
end for 10 mms? The arm pads are in the highest position now as I've used all off the existing spacers and brackets.

Also the current extensions are short for my arms, my palms reaches the further end of the current extensions. I've thought buying a longer extensions such as USE. Do you have any suggestions for that?

PS: I’m 178 cm and I use S model for my Canyon Aeroad as well.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Had my road bike fit done yesterday and then had a TT fit done as I'm interested in getting myself the CF SLX 8.0. Fitter did not rate the Speedmax because of cockpit adjustability but I think most people he's fitted did not do research before buying to get the correct combination of spacers and switch plates to get fit horned in. I'd appreciate it if you could advise based on my numbers below as I'm evenly wanting to get my hands on a well fitting Speedmax!!

Pad X:469
Pad Y:643
He's suggested 165mm crank length so having to deviate from the standard already.
Pad width: 220
Saddle height:775

Looking at size M? Achievable?
Appreciate the assistance.
Gareth
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [canadiguzel] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I have a Canyon Speedmax SLX 8.0 2019. I want to raise the front end for 10 mms and change my extensions to longer ones. My questions are, do I need to buy an angled spacer to raise the front
end for 10 mms? The arm pads are in the highest position now as I've used all off the existing spacers and brackets.

Also the current extensions are short for my arms, my palms reaches the further end of the current extensions. I've thought buying a longer extensions such as USE. Do you have any suggestions for that?

canadiguzel,

Sorry I missed this. Here's my first thoughts....
My guess is that you have 45mm of arm pad pedestal under there now, and, as you say, you want to go up another 10mm. That can be acheived by using what Canyon calls a "high stack flat spring". If you're in the US call them at 866-226-9661.

As to the extensions.... there's not enough standardization in cycling but thankfully the diameter of aero extensions are holding on. You can slip any extension in there you like, any length, any curve. I want to suggest you look at 51 SpeedShop Ultimate Carbon Extensions, I think the shape of those are really good.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Irongcp] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian, Had my road bike fit done yesterday and then had a TT fit done as I'm interested in getting myself the CF SLX 8.0. Fitter did not rate the Speedmax because of cockpit adjustability but I think most people he's fitted did not do research before buying to get the correct combination of spacers and switch plates to get fit horned in. I'd appreciate it if you could advise based on my numbers below as I'm evenly wanting to get my hands on a well fitting Speedmax!!

Pad X:469 Pad Y:643 He's suggested 165mm crank length so having to deviate from the standard already. Pad width: 220 Saddle height:775
Looking at size M? Achievable?
Appreciate the assistance.

Gareth,
I'm going to progress here under the assumption that Pad X of 469 is center of the pad - be sure to correct me if that's wrong. Some fitters/bike manufactures measure to rear of pad some to middle of pad - Canyon uses middle, we can easily add 50mm to get to the center if this is the rear but I gotta know.

So, if Pad X(c) is 469 and Pad Y is 643 you could do a Medium with 45mm of arm pad pedestal you'd get 640 in Y and if you got the aftermarket "high stack flat spring" you'd get to 645 or even 650. The bike comes with the short stem stock and you'd also need an aftermarket item Canyon makes called the "TSP - Team Switch Plate" to bring the pads back to where you like 'em.

This could also be done on a Large - 15mm of arm pad pedestal, short stem, TSP with pads back all the way yeilds a Pad X(c) of 471

BTW, 165mm cranks for you should be the standard. The world is slow to coming around buy my advice is to purchase 165s when you order the bike so you can swap out the 175s that come on it and you'll be able to sell them "unridden".

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian
I have a 2017 Canyon Speedmax CF 8.0 size L which I’ve been happily riding
Olympic distance the last few years. This year I’m doing a 70.3 and found
significant neck/shoulder pain on longer rides. I saw a triathlon coach
today who did an unofficial bike fit, and we found that the drop from saddle
to handlebars is 18cm, the angle from hip to shoulder is 10 degrees, and
distance from seat edge to handlebar is 55cm.
Saddle recoil is 5cm.
He said to me this equates to a mega aggressive position (I’m just a regular
age grouper) and that I should try to raise the aerobats using spacers. I’m
194cm tall.

Question:
Do you agree with his prognosis?
Does Canyon make spacers that I could use to raise the handlebar height?

For now I just need a quickish fix on my existing bike, my race is in 6
weeks.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [sloppygiuseppe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply

Quote:
Hi Ian
I have a 2017 Canyon Speedmax CF 8.0 size L which I’ve been happily riding
Olympic distance the last few years. This year I’m doing a 70.3 and found
significant neck/shoulder pain on longer rides. I saw a triathlon coach
today who did an unofficial bike fit, and we found that the drop from saddle
to handlebars is 18cm, the angle from hip to shoulder is 10 degrees, and
distance from seat edge to handlebar is 55cm.
Saddle recoil is 5cm.
He said to me this equates to a mega aggressive position (I’m just a regular
age grouper) and that I should try to raise the aerobats using spacers. I’m
194cm tall.

Question:
Do you agree with his prognosis?
Does Canyon make spacers that I could use to raise the handlebar height?

For now I just need a quickish fix on my existing bike, my race is in 6
weeks.


Thanks in advance!


sloppygiuseppe,
A 180mm drop (measured level off the top of the saddle down to the arm pads) is a rather large number. I makes me think of a guy named Bjorn Anderson who used to the be the patron saint of all things aero here on Slowtwich. He was a pro who rode a massive drop..


Regardless of whether you are and "regular age grouper" or an elite or a pro triathlete or someone trying to win the TT World Championships - you are going to be fastest when you can hold the aero position for long, uninterrupted periods of time. Comfort in a moderate aero position is faster than a freaky aero position that hurts so badly you have to unfold yourself from that every few minutes to stretch and recover.

Yes, you should raise your arm pads, do it progressively as comfort can sometimes happen in the move of 5mm. Here are some areas in which to explore:
1) Spacer under stem - between the top of the head tube of your frame and the bottom of your stem clamp I think there's about 25mm of spacer. make sure that's there. My guess is that there is no steer tube sticking out the top of your stem. If there is steer tube protruding out the top of the stem move those spacers down under the stem first. I chose this first because I like the base bar (brakes) to move when the aerobars and for them to remain in proximity to one another.
2) Aerobar pedestal - I'm assuming you've got the stock Profile Design aerobars on there and those have the ability to be lifted incrementally up to raise the arm pads (and bring the extensions along with them). Profile has different sized spacers AND the appropriate length bolts of keep it all safe and connected.
3) I saved this for last and you should only go to this if you've maxed out the two steps above. The stock stem on your bike is level to the ground (-17 degrees). If you lifted everything else to it's max and you still need to go up consider a -6 degree stem to increase the pads even more.

I want to speak to your cockpit distance too...you mentioned the distance from the nose of the saddle to the handlebars is 55cm. I can't know if that's long, short, or perfect. What I can say is this: 1) neck and shoulder pain could be coming from being stretched out too far. I don't think your elbows need to be exactly under your shoulders when you're in aero but they should be close to that or just a bit forward of that. If you're stretching really far out to be in the aero position that can cause similar pain too. As can a too narrow arm pad set up so check that too.

If you'd like you can post pics here and I can evaluate.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian this is great thank you.
Maybe I can pull off a Bjorn Anderson one day :)

Attached is a pic of the bike, it looks as though the stem spacer is attached, and there is no protruding steer tube, right?
I have contacted Profile Design and ordered a spacer to raise up the aerobar height.
For the stock stem point, could you maybe share a link to the product you're referring to? I couldn't figure this out from searching products on the Canyon site.
Cockpit distance I hear you, my elbows are pretty close to vertically below shoulders, marginally in front. The image below is me on a turbo after buying the bike 2 years ago (regretting not taking a pic when I was on it today..). I haven't changed any settings significantly since then and am in roughly comparable shape.Sounds like this is not an issue to the same extent as drop.

Based on this description by the way, does it sound to you like I need an XL frame?

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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [sloppygiuseppe] [ In reply to ]
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sloppygiuseppe,

That's a great looking ride!

Yes, you've got the spacer under the stem - and, yes, the aerobars are at the bottom of their adjustable range. When you get the spacers you need you can lift the pads up to where you'll want to be. My guess is that you'll find a GREAT spot with 20-35mm of pad pedestal. I doubt you'll need a different stem but if you did consider the Profile Design 1/Zero Seven. The length of your stem is 90mm so be sure to get that same length. The cool thing about this stem is that if you put this in the -7 degree position it'll lift you about 18mm if you need more (and I sincerely doubt you will) you can flip the stem and bring it up to +7 and get another 15+mm - again, I sincerely doubt that will be needed - in fact, you might not need any new stem at all - try the spacers first.

This frame can and will work. Keep in mind the XL will get longer and that could cause another problem to solve so stay with this bike and find a good spot.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Eek, I freaked out and ordered the 70mm spacers (they can't be broken down). They also have 20mm, 30, 40, 50 and 60 available.
Are there any other measurements I could send you to narrow down which spacer to get, or is that getting too much into feel and I just need to try different ones and see?
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Hi Ian ,
x = 450 ( mid pad ) y = 620 Seat Height = 725 My Height = 172 Weight = 64 Cranks = 172.5
I have been looking at the CF SLX size small, is that correct ?

John,
With a Pad Y of 620 you're better off on a Medium. The Max Pad Y on a Small is 620 and that's with everything under the pad. If you got to a Medium then all you need is 25mm of pedestal and that's pretty much dead center of the range of Pad Y on the Medium you have room to move in the future. Now, about that Pad X of 450 you'll need the short stem (easy, it comes stock on the bike), you need to mount the arm cups all the way back (easy), you also need an aftermarket item that Canyon sells for the SLX called TSP (Team Switch Plate) and you'll need that to pull the pads back another little bit to get to 450.

Ian

Hello again Ian,

Would this also be the same for the CF ?

Thanks

John
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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My wife is interested in the CF 7.0. Her coordinates are 472mm reach and 610 stack. Seat height of 703.

I was thinking XS would be better, but am worried about having to pedestal the pads a lot. And S seemed that she would be near the very bottom of possible seat height.

Any thoughts you had would be much appreciated. And if Canyon isn’t best option for her no biggie either, there are other frames I know would fit her well she likes as well.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

I’m looking to purchase my first triathlon bike and Canyon was highly recommended by a colleague. I am specifically looking at the 8.0 SL. I just had a Guru fitting done, here are my measurements. Thanks!

Height - 75” or 190.5cm
Pad X - 450mm (B), 490mm (C) [not sure the difference]
Pad Y - 700mm
Saddle Height - 835mm
Stack - 653mm
Reach - 503mm

- Jacob
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [blueapplepaste] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
My wife is interested in the CF 7.0. Her coordinates are 472mm reach and 610 stack. Seat height of 703.
I was thinking XS would be better, but am worried about having to pedestal the pads a lot. And S seemed that she would be near the very bottom of possible seat height.
Any thoughts you had would be much appreciated. And if Canyon isn’t best option for her no biggie either, there are other frames I know would fit her well she likes as well.

blueapplepaste,
Thanks for posting here.

With regards to the CF the XS won't go short enough to meet her at Pad X of 472 (max is 455). The Small will work but even that one will require the arm cups are mounted in the farthest away location to make the 472 happen. The medium won't meet her on seat height.

Here's my suggestion.... Get the size small. Her seat height of 703 is so nicely set in mid range (675-820). The Pad Y (Pad Stack) is so nicely set in mid range (562-649). The stem that will come stock on the small is an 80mm, get a 90mm and you'll have her in perfect Pad X (Pad Reach) with some wiggle room.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [wjwatts] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hi Ian,
I’m looking to purchase my first triathlon bike and Canyon was highly recommended by a colleague. I am specifically looking at the 8.0 SL. I just had a Guru fitting done, here are my measurements. Thanks!
Height - 75” or 190.5cm
Pad X - 450mm (B), 490mm (C) [not sure the difference]
Pad Y - 700mm
Saddle Height - 835mm
wjwatts,
The Pad X of 450 (B) speaks to the back of the arm pad, the 490mm (C) refers to the center of the arm pad. Some bikes speak to one location and some to another (canyon goes to center). Good on your fitter for noting both.

I can for sure give you the specs but.... Canyon makes two different Speedmax bikes referenced by "8.0 SL". One is the Speedmax SLX - this is the all out super-duper bike with the hydration built into the front end. And the Speedmax CF - this is the super-ish bike. The SLX 8.0 SL is $7k and the CF 8.0 SL is $3,999.

Which one you lookin' at?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Sep 10, 19 17:31
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Great to know on the pad measurements.

I’m looking at the CF 8.0 SL

- Jacob
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