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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian for the detailed explanation. I thought the Pad Y looked abit odd as well when I read through the other posts in this thread..
On the crank arm, if I change to 155mm, do I need to make changes to saddle height and saddle setback?
Thanks, Jan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cheahjn] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks Ian for the detailed explanation. I thought the Pad Y looked abit odd as well when I read through the other posts in this thread..
On the crank arm, if I change to 155mm, do I need to make changes to saddle height and saddle setback?
Thanks, Jan

Jan,
The fit coordinates of your existing bike (the converted road bike) will not be exactly the same as your new Canyon tri bike - and that's a good thing. The new tri bike is designed to put you in a position that is better than your existing road bike. I can tell you that the set back on the road bike will be a larger number than the tri bike - in fact the set back on the road bike could be something like 52mm and the tri bike could be as little as 12mm or even a few mm "set forward" of the bottom bracket. This has nothing to do with the crank length but everything to do with the tri bike geometry and the proper tri position. This is something that a fitter would guide you towards (and if you want a recommendation let me know where you live and I'll check my list). The seat height will be very similar to your road bike, maybe a few mm higher - and if you move from 170 cranks to 160 cranks the seat height has to go up 10mm so you can scale that to whatever change you make.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Thanks Ian for the detailed explanation. I thought the Pad Y looked abit odd as well when I read through the other posts in this thread..
On the crank arm, if I change to 155mm, do I need to make changes to saddle height and saddle setback?
Thanks, Jan


Jan,
The fit coordinates of your existing bike (the converted road bike) will not be exactly the same as your new Canyon tri bike - and that's a good thing. The new tri bike is designed to put you in a position that is better than your existing road bike. I can tell you that the set back on the road bike will be a larger number than the tri bike - in fact the set back on the road bike could be something like 52mm and the tri bike could be as little as 12mm or even a few mm "set forward" of the bottom bracket. This has nothing to do with the crank length but everything to do with the tri bike geometry and the proper tri position. This is something that a fitter would guide you towards (and if you want a recommendation let me know where you live and I'll check my list). The seat height will be very similar to your road bike, maybe a few mm higher - and if you move from 170 cranks to 160 cranks the seat height has to go up 10mm so you can scale that to whatever change you make.

Ian

ok understand. now i'm super excited for the bike :)
I live in Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur. Would be great if you have any recommendation for a fitter in this side of the world..
Thanks!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cheahjn] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
would you advise me with some adjustments to my Canyon Speedmax CF.
I bought size Large, I believe (still) that this is good size for me (I am feeling more comfortable on the bigger frame :) )

I am 183cm high
inside leg: 86,5cm

my current Y/X are: 720mm and 510mm
saddle (Fizik Mistica; end of nose) is 3cm behind BB
saddle high leel is 104,50cm high

Still I feel that this is not ideal position; I can not feel same comfort (and power) as it was previously (another bike)

thanks in advance and regards
Adam
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ajezier] [ In reply to ]
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Good morning

I am looking to replace my 2014 BMC TM02 in a M-S. Standard numbers are 515 reach, 377 stack, 490 TT. I use 165 cranks and 110 stem (-6) and have the -7 position with a fabric saddle right in the middle of the rails.
Just had a look at the pad measurements and I'm sure I probably need a professional fit! Pad X is 460 and pad y is 665 Seat height is 705 and extensions are 305.
I've been told I could go steeper with the seat angle but this bike is definitely too short for that. I've got one 10mm stacker under the stem. Interestingly I don't feel cramped despite the bike and numbers alongside my long back.

Their chart recommends me a small for 178 height and 79 inseam (other charts struggle to place my long back short legs properly) for the CF. The SLX puts me on a medium which I feel would be too big.Please can you let me know if I am right or wrong here?

Obviously would switch out their cranks for a 165, which I feel suits my inseam and short 43/44 sized feet, however the small CF doesn't seem to have enough seat height, especially when I want to change to shorter cranks!

Please can you let me know if you want more info.

I am also looking at a Trek speed concept and will get my leg over a medium at the weekend (I think I'm a small for this too). This looks like I must have a fit from them to know exactly which parts are required for me, and then order as project one. Feels like it'll take ages to arrive!

Many thanks in advance for your help
Last edited by: blueathlete: Jul 14, 19 23:37
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

I'd really appreciate if you can give me advice on fine tuning my new Speedmax CF SLX. I did a fit and spent quite a lot of time riding it (around 2 thousand kms) and still having the same issue that I can't deal with: almost all the time bike feels very unstable, more like you're going to flip forward, especially on downhills. I'd assume it is just a matter of time to get used to it, but after two months it starts being annoying. Even when on a handlebar, I feel very twitchy and any crosswind makes it worse.

Input parameters are as follows:

Pad X - 465 mm
Pad Y - 650 mm
Saddle height - 770 mm

I'm 184 cm, my Speedmax is size M.

I'd be thankful for any suggestions on how it can be adjusted to make in order to make me feel more confident.

Cheers,
Dennis
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks much Ian. Got the large and fits great. Now just need to figure out 165 cranks (with or without power). I have dura ace and the shifting is so smooth.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ajezier] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,
would you advise me with some adjustments to my Canyon Speedmax CF. I bought size Large, I believe (still) that this is good size for me (I am feeling more comfortable on the bigger frame :) )
I am 183cm high, inside leg: 86,5cm , my current Y/X are: 720mm and 510mm, saddle (Fizik Mistica; end of nose) is 3cm behind BB, saddle high leel is 104,50cm high
Still I feel that this is not ideal position; I can not feel same comfort (and power) as it was previously (another bike)

Adam,
I'm a bike fitter fist and foremost and this thread is designed to help athletes like you purchase the right size bike. It's not possible for me.... in text.....to get you in the right position. I can't do it. I teach this subject and I don't think it can be done. Now....a video...set up properly (level bike, camera at profile, you riding at race power for a 30sec)...that's something I might be able to work with. Post it up.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Hello Ian,
Appreciate if you can advise the size for me on the women cf. I'm currently fitted on a road bike with clip on aero bars with the following measurements:
Pad X (middle of pad to BB) 420mm
Pad Y (top of pad to BB) 667mm
I’m 164cm, 76.8cm inseam, current saddle height 680mm.


Jan,
So glad you wrote.
I don't believe for one second that your optimal triathlon position is Pad Y 667. That spot that the converted road bike has placed is too high up in the wind. When you get lower you will be more comfortable (priority one), more powerful (second priority), and a bit more out of the wind (third priority). When I work on your morphology I get something a bit longer and a lot lower: Pad Y of 576 and Pad X of 440.

I do think an XS is the right bike for you but go into this knowing the tallest the Pad Y on that bike will go is 620. You should have faith in this because.... right now you ride 667 and I think you should be 576. If I'm wrong and you need a bit more height in your pads this will go up 40+mm to meet you nicely - not all the way to 667 but that can't be your place. The Pad X range is no problem for you swinging from 420-465 so you'll find your perfect spot.

Couple of side notes. While there is a legit difference between the women/men versions or road bikes in the Canyon line the tri bikes are unisex and they should be. The only difference in the women's version of the CF is color. Also, This bike will show up and it'll be ready to fit you in lots of perfect ways. One thing I'm worried about is this - the cranks that come on the bike will be too long (172.5mm). My advice is simple - before you throw a leg over this bike pull the 172.5s so you can sell them as never ridden. If you simply have to stay on Shimano then get a set of Shimano 105 level cranks in 160mm (shortest they make). If you really want optimal comfort/performance I urge you to acquire a set of 155mm from Cobb or Rotor and have them installed on your bike.

Ian

Hi Ian.
Thought I drop a message to thank you for recommending the XS and also the Pad X and Y for the speedmax. I got the bike couple days ago and set it up according to what you suggested (except the crank) and went out for a 4.5 hours ride. The fit is almost perfect, and I could dial into the fit almost immediately. I'm taking note of all the discomforts so that when i go to get a bike fit, the fitter would have an idea what to adjust. Very very happy with your recommendation. Coincidentally the LBS in my area has one last set of 155mm Cobb crankset available with a very good price.
Thank you once again for your assistance.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
Thanks for your response (a few weeks ago), I've had chance to play with the bike a bit now and I think I'm getting there although I just wanted to run a few things past you if possible.

Attached is a small video of the current set-up, the vid quality is very low but I had to do that to meet the attachment size limit on this forum. It would be great to get your thoughts.

Seat height - I set it as previous bike but I think it could come up a bit.
Set Back - I was worried about cockpit distance being too big so put the seat as far forward as it would go... I think it may need to come back slightly. It feels comfortable, but the set back is about 0 at the moment, on my old bike it was more like 6cm. Is a 0cm setback a bad thing or shall I just leave it as it is?
I think I could move the seat back 1-2cm and still have a cockpit distance that is comfortable, so I'm thinking of trying that next.
Pad Drop - I've got it approx 10% of seat height as you suggested, to do this I got hold of some of the max size risers that profile design do (70mm). It feels comfortable but looking at pictures and the video, I think I look very upright. So I'm not sure if I should bring this down a bit. Also for comfort I moved the areobars apart slightly (increasing pad width), I have broad shoulders and this seemed to make things more comfortable as well as being similar to what I am used to on my old bike.

Many Thanks for your help, I really appreciate.
Jeremy
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
appreciate for your reply.
Of course I am not expect fitting advises - it was my mistake with the initial request.

My intention of the question was rather your opinion in relation to my frame size (L) and current Y/X.
I think that stack is too high and will calibrate slighlty position. I am not feeling that position where Y is 720 is OK.

I will record short video/with the position.
regards
Adam
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Lol , you are welcome. Thank you for your response. Didn't want to drown you in text. Yes - that's per Pad.

Cheers!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Ksaint] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

I am about to pull the trigger on the Canyon Speedmax SLX, but not sure which size suites me the best. Could you help? Below is my info.

Height: 176cm
Inseam: 84cm (relatively long for my height)
Saddle Height: 756mm
Armpad Stack: 640mm
Armpad Reach: 475mm
Crank Length: 165mm

Thanks,

tristeven
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [blueathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Good morning

Just had a look at the pad measurements and I'm sure I probably need a professional fit! Pad X is 460 and pad y is 665 Seat height is 705..... Interestingly I don't feel cramped despite the bike and numbers alongside my long back.

Many thanks in advance for your help


blueathlete,

Hmmm...... "I probably need a professional bike fit". I'm going to agree with you and here's why. Your morphology is pretty normal. I don't see why you can't ride where everybody else who's built like you rides. You're Pad Y should be ~623 (not 665), and you're Pad X to the center of the pad should be ~480 (not 460). There are whispers of agreement built into your post: "I've been told I could go steeper"

If you were at Pad Y of 623ish and Pad X of 480ish (with a seat height of 705) then...

The SLX for you would be a Medium*, short stem, pads dead center and 30mm of spacer.

The CF for you would be a Small but you'd need to pull the 80mm stem that comes stock on the bike and get a 90mm.


Ian

*I realize that I'm not 100% sure of the seat height ranges on the Medium SLX.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Jul 18, 19 13:17
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [M@verick] [ In reply to ]
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Dennis,

If you remove the front wheel. Is there a reversible dropout that holds the axle? And, if so, which way is it positioned?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Tri_dada] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks much Ian. Got the large and fits great. Now just need to figure out 165 cranks (with or without power). I have dura ace and the shifting is so smooth.

Tri_dada,

GREAT news!!

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cheahjn] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:

Hi Ian.
Thought I drop a message to thank you for recommending the XS and also the Pad X and Y for the speedmax. I got the bike couple days ago and set it up according to what you suggested (except the crank) and went out for a 4.5 hours ride. The fit is almost perfect, and I could dial into the fit almost immediately. I'm taking note of all the discomforts so that when i go to get a bike fit, the fitter would have an idea what to adjust. Very very happy with your recommendation. Coincidentally the LBS in my area has one last set of 155mm Cobb crankset available with a very good price.
Thank you once again for your assistance.

Awww Jan, thanks for this note. You made my day.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JS86] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,
Thanks for your response, I've had chance to play with the bike a bit now and I think I'm getting there although I just wanted to run a few things past you if possible.
Attached is a small video of the current set-up. It would be great to get your thoughts.
Many Thanks for your help, I really appreciate.

Jeremy,
You've done very well. Let's discuss....
Quote:
Seat height - I set it as previous bike but I think it could come up a bit.
I think your seat height looks really good. I don't have it with pedal at bottom dead center right at profile to the camera but it's pretty close here. Don't raise it.



Quote:
Set Back - I was worried about cockpit distance being too big so put the seat as far forward as it would go... I think it may need to come back slightly. It feels comfortable, but the set back is about 0 at the moment, on my old bike it was more like 6cm. Is a 0cm setback a bad thing or shall I just leave it as it is?
I think I could move the seat back 1-2cm and still have a cockpit distance that is comfortable, so I'm thinking of trying that next.
First, let's clarify something...seat height and setback are items critical to power (and to comfort) and they must be set unto themselves as the place where you generate the most power. The cockpit then gets adjusted with stem length and pad movement to compliment and support that optimal spot the saddle found. You didn't approach from that direction but I think you stumbled into a pretty good position. More below pic..


Zero setback is not only an acceptable thing (in triathlon we're talking here - not in time trial that is governed by UCI rules) but for you it's a must. The reason I say that is... you are sitting ON that saddle. You are not perched off the nose of that saddle. If that's where you need to sit to find comfort then the seat has to be forward. It could, in theory, even have a setback of + 5mm or + 10mm or a bit more - a "set forward" as it were. I think you should leave the saddle where it is and ride. if....when you strive for greater power.... you find yourself creeping towards the front of the saddle a bit more, know two things: 1) that's common/typical/expected, and 2) you can move the arm pads and extensions forward a touch to make room for that movement if it works for you.

Quote:
Pad Drop - I've got it approx 10% of seat height as you suggested, to do this I got hold of some of the max size risers that profile design do (70mm). It feels comfortable but looking at pictures and the video, I think I look very upright. So I'm not sure if I should bring this down a bit. Also for comfort I moved the areobars apart slightly (increasing pad width), I have broad shoulders and this seemed to make things more comfortable as well as being similar to what I am used to on my old bike.
About pad width...smart move on the pad width, find comfort for your broad shoulders.
About pad drop...how long are the cranks on that bike? I worry they are 175s. It's printed on the inside of the crank arm, near the pedal axle. Get back to me on that because what I see here is probably the max pad drop you can have. If you want to go lower it's gotta be shorter cranks that allow that to happen - by the way, I don't think you look very upright.

Let me know about crank length.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [tristeven] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Ian,
I am about to pull the trigger on the Canyon Speedmax SLX, but not sure which size suites me the best. Could you help? Below is my info.
Height: 176cm , Inseam: 84cm (relatively long for my height) , Saddle Height: 756mm , Armpad Stack: 640mm , Armpad Reach: 475mm , Crank Length: 165mm


tristeven,

For the Canyon Speedmax SLX you could go one of two ways.

Size Large, short stem, the aftermarket TSP device, pads one hole forward of all-the-way-back, and 10mm of pedestal. This bike is near the boundaries of where it can go. It can ONLY go 10mm lower pad drop and it can only go ~5mm shorter in cockpit. It can go a lot higher and a lot longer.
....or....
Size Medium, short stem, pads back all the way, and 45mm of pedestal. This bike is near the boundary of it's height. It can only go 10mm higher to reach it's max and that's with a little aftermarket item called the "high stack flat spring". It can however go lower, longer or shorter.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Jul 18, 19 13:20
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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That's fantastic thank you very much!

I got on an xs Boardman for a quick trial which felt okay and this further suggested I wasn't far enough forward and it was obvious by going further forward I could also get lower.

I think I'm setup as UCI on this BMC and I don't need to be!

Do you think it would help my neck position as well as that's the only thing that aches on longer rides?

The CF seems like the least faff if I can't stretch to a SLX! It does also mean I can kinda ignore what I have now and go for proper suggestions and try other bikes as well!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [blueathlete] [ In reply to ]
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That's fantastic thank you very much!

I got on an xs Boardman for a quick trial which felt okay and this further suggested I wasn't far enough forward and it was obvious by going further forward I could also get lower.

It does also mean I can kinda ignore what I have now and go for proper suggestions and try other bikes as well!

blueathlete,

I don't believe in "test rides". For many that sounds weird but here's my perspective.

If a customer walks into a local Trek/Cannondale dealer and says "I'm looking to buy a bike". The sales person guesses their height and says "I think a 54 would be right for you. Put on this helmet and ride this Cannondale Synapse around the parking lot for a few minutes". Then they come back and the sales person says "now try this Trek H1 Madone for a bit". Afterwords the customer say's "Oh the Cannondale is so much more comfortable".

Sure - Both bikes are 54cm but the Cannondale has a taller stack and if it's got 35mm of spacer under a +6 degree, 90mm stem and the tires were at 85psi (5.7bar) while the Trek is a longest and lowest bike they make and it's set up with 20mm of spacer, a -6 degree, 100mm stem and tires a 105psi - then apples are not being compared to apples. If both bikes were set up identically then the customer could choose by color.

This is infinitely more important for tri than road.

The way to buy a bike is this: go to an educated, experienced fitter who has a dynamic fit bike and together you will find the ultimate position. Once you know your seat height, setback, cockpit distance and pad drop - you can have ANYTHING under you as long as those contact points are in the right spot. The frame could be ti, steel, carbon, alum, unobtainum (science fiction), bamboo (real bikes made of this), it doesn't matter when you're rolling down the flat road at race effort - it will feel the same.

You've got to find your position. Then you'll know which bikes can get their easily (or not at all). Then you can shop by the appropriate criteria that follow - groupo, price, color. Then you'll very likely end up back at Canyon because that Speedmax CF with Ui2 and sexy wheels is so inexpensive compared to a comparable bike.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Jul 18, 19 14:23
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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What do you think of the Guru fit? Seems to be the only option around where I am (Midlands, UK) and there's a draw to knowing which bikes will actually fit me before ordering.

The Trek concept stores offer an expensive fit service specifically to their bike, but refundable on purchase.

I'm planning the fit as I want to start with power and then get the bars set. This is how I've done it in my garage, however it has taken me months on the road to decide on a new stem length and I don't have that time til my next event!

Thank you very much for your help!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [blueathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Well, Ten Point north of London is phenomenal. I don't know Cycle Division or JE James personally but my advice is to call Helen or Brian at Ten Point and ask them advice on who's good near you. They'll likely know.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Thanks again for your response, it made me feel a lot more confident that I'm getting it right, as I said the comfort is feeling pretty good although I still haven't done a really long ride, maybe this weekend will be my chance.

You're right, crank length is 175
but if you dont think I look too upright then is there any need to go lower (with shorter cranks and presumably smaller risers on the aerobars) ?

It sounds like its a good thing that I bought the larger 70mm risers for the aerobars that are on there at the moment?
Obviously I could keep the seat where it is now and drop the aerobars down onto the smaller risers (or no risers at all) which would put me in quite an aggressive position, but it doesnt sound like this is what you are suggesting as you are thinking about the smaller cranks.

One other thing, you said:
"I don't have it with pedal at bottom dead center right at profile to the camera but it's pretty close here."

I did get this photo which is more of a profile to the camera, so may be better.... you think seat height should stay as it is?



Many Thanks again for your help,
I really appreciate it,
Jeremy
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JS86] [ In reply to ]
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Jeremy,

Yeah, seat height looks good. Leave it.

My issue with the short cranks is this.... at the top of the pedal stroke I worry that your hip flexor and the flesh around it get's bound up and a bit sticky as you come around 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, 12, 1 o'clock and doesn't get free 'til it approaches 2 - 2:30. With shorter cranks (and you should go straight to 165mm) you'd have incredible freedom there and you'd flow over the top of pedal circle and get into your power faze sooner. Keep in mind - when you go from 175 to 165 you'll raise the seat height 10mm so the drop will be more - there won't be any need to lower the front end.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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