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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
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Just noticed there was a typo on my side so my X is really 486 (Y stays the same 635). I don’t think it makes any difference but just in case... sorry about my mistake!



Mdiaz,

That typo doesn't change much - same size, same base bar, same stem - you'll just move the pads forward 3 holes (I think, it's 3) but I know the length is in there for that stem on that bike.

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When it comes to the bar and having the 2019 model the spacers in the middle (not affecting the height as far as I know) what would be my advantage having them on my Set-up versus the flat one?...just trying to understand.

I need to understand this too. I've only seen one of those new bikes at Kona briefly and wasn't able to measure it, inspect it, etc. I'll reach out the engineers in Germany and get more info on the new front-end next week.

Ian

Once again, thank you!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian, I'm guessing the TSP solution will end up being the best call. Athlete's first tri-bike purchase (has been test riding a few though) and I'm betting on fit adjustments going forward as adaptation occurs.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [gregn] [ In reply to ]
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Greg,

If you go sans TSP the Pad X is only 3mm too long. The athlete might be okay with that as the Ergon arm pads offer some pretty good real estate. The TSP is there in the kit if needed but using it limits the arm tilt just a bit so something to consider.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I'm interested in what configuration you'd suggest for me. I'm probably going for medium frame, short stem, flat basebar.

Height: 184cm
Inseam: 88.8cm
Pad stack: 653mm
Pad reach: 468mm

I guess I'm quite inflexible, but it was my first fitting in TT position, so I guess my position will improve over time.
Fitting was done using a 172.5 crank. Would it be worthwhile to swap the default Canyon crank (175) to something smaller?

Thank you for offering this service!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Timely thread as I am looking at a CF as we speak. I believe that a small is what I am looking for but confirmation would be great.

Height - 173cm
Inseam - 81.5cm
Pad Y - 610
Pad X - 470

Thanks,
Dave
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [teeman] [ In reply to ]
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Teeman,

Your Speedmax is a Medium for sure and a short stem for sure and you'll probably use the TSP to get the pads where you want them... but if you go with a flat bar you have to max out the arm pad pedestal at 80mm (a single 60mm + a single 20mm spacer) - and that's to get to 650 which is 3mm shy of your Pad Y of 653. If you go with the rise base bar then you can use two 20mm spacers + three 5mm spacers to get to 650 or go with a single 60mm spacer to get to 655.

Any flexibility issues you might have far less to do with your position than your morphology - you are long in leg and short in torso (me too - I'm 6'1" with a 34in inseam and you're 6' with a 35in inseam). That's why your Pad X is short but your Pad Y (and seat height) is high. Not to worry - lots of fast guys with our build.

Now, to crank length....yes, yes and yes again. If you go to something like a 170mm or even 165s you'll likely get some more freedom in your hip angle at the top of the pedal stroke and, dare I say, maybe even go a bit lower in your arm pad elevation. This is a bit of speculation based on typical circumstances - I'd need to see you in this position to be sure.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

Am ready to buy my first tri bike and settled on the Speedmax CF. Using Canyons fit questionnaire I should buy medium but given I can’t try it for size was looking for a second opinion. Can you explain how to determine pad x and y? Thanks
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian...I’m curious...
Stack 638
Reach 408 (bb to pad). 429 tip to pad.

Thank you
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

Thanks for providing some fit feedback. Much appreciated. I'm considering a Speedmax CF SLX.

These are my most recent bike fit numbers. It was suggested that I go with a 165mm crank.

Stack:652
Reach: 484
Saddle Height: 743
Crank Length: 165
Saddle Setback:-25mm

I think I am in between a M and L but not sure which would give me the best fit and allow for future changes. Thanks.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Never had an official fit but just roughly measured my current fit on my p3c. A speedmax is my dream bike but never been sure if I could make it work with my height.

190.5 cm (6'3")
~87.5 inseam (34-35")

Pad X (rear) ~= 500mm
Pad Y ~= 640mm

I could stand to extend my reach by maybe 10-15mm but can not go any higher.
Video of what this position looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Schv5w6N22w

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Last edited by: realbdeal: Nov 26, 18 7:59
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Let's see if this is possible

Stack 730
Reach 505
Cranks 175
setback 100

I'm 6'10" so i am use to having to adapt and may be able to go a little lower on stack and maintain but this is ideal.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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stack 665
reach 475

thank you!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Pumphreywj] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Am ready to buy my first tri bike and settled on the Speedmax CF. Using Canyons fit questionnaire I should buy medium but given I can’t try it for size was looking for a second opinion. Can you explain how to determine pad x and y? Thanks

Pumphreywj, This is an excellent question. Here's my answer....

When an athlete has a desire to buy a Canyon Speedmax here are the prioritized ways that can and should happen:
  1. BEST APPROACH....Go to a bike fitter who is educated, experienced, and owns a dynamic fit bike (a bike that can be adjusted up/down while the customer is riding). The fitter you select must have all three of those criteria checked off - all three. The process might cost as little as $199 or as much as $399 and it's absolutely worth it and here's why: you will leave with the Pad Y/Pad X, the size of the Canyon Speedmax that's right for you AND the front end configuration for the right size AND all the fit coordinates that will be needed once the bike is purchased (seat height, set back, cockpit distance, handlebar elevation, etc. etc). I can help by recommending fitters in your area.
  2. SECOND BEST APPROACH...(this doesn't apply to you) pull out your existing tri bike, the one you're abandoning. If you very much like the position measure the Pad Y and Pad X of that bike. It's easy to get pretty darn close at home with just the most basic of devices (tape measure)
  3. OTHER GOOD APPROACHES....Give me your saddle height (assuming it's known and right) and your overall height and let me put it into an equation that's pretty darn good at proscribing Pad Y & Pad X - OR - Go through Canyon's PPS and let it prescribe your bike size.

it sounds to me like you've gone through the PPS and it's told you that a medium is right for you - so you're set.

Now......I'm a bike fitter, and when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail, so you won't be shocked to hear me say you should get fit. And if you agree then I beg of you, get fit first. I'm sure you'll still be a medium but then you'll know if it's a long stem or short stem, a base bar that drops is flat or rises, the amount of spacers you need under those aerobars - and a slew of other goodies that will make you very happy on the bike: seat height, set back, saddle tilt, arm pad width, aerobar extension, slight twist of those aerobars so wrists are happy, a bit of tilt of the aerobars so they are perfect, and much more.


Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [dave_o] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Timely thread as I am looking at a CF as we speak. I believe that a small is what I am looking for but confirmation would be great.

Dave_o,

You are right the money with a small. It should have a short stem and pads nearly dead center to get your Pad X of 470. The best result for your Pad Y of 610 is a flat bar with a single 60mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer. You could get it done with the rise bar as well with two 20mm spacers + a single 5mm spacer - The bike comes with the flat bar and, one could argue the aesthetic of that superior.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [anthonypat] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian...I’m curious...
Stack 638
Reach 408 (bb to pad). 429 tip to pad.

anthonypat,

The Stack you listed of 638 is a legit number, one that I believe is a Pad Y, and with which I can work. The numbers you listed as Reach (408 and 429) are too short for me to assume they are a Pad X. Are you giving me actual "reach" or Pad X? If you have an existing bike that fits well I can help walk you through measuring that Pad X to be sure. Get back to me on this, I'm eager to solve.

And, this seems like a good time to preach on the subject of terms for a sec....

Your probably already know this and you used these terms to expedite your post but I'm on a forever mission of education so I'll correct the others who will read this and other posts - the terms "stack" and "reach" refer to a very specific place; the top of the head tube on the frame of a mortal bike. That's a great number to work with when prescribing a mortal bike. The Canyon Speedmax is a super bike so we must use Pad Y and Pad X - or, in times of great desperation we could perhaps default to "Pad Stack" and "Pad Reach" but that is, as the brilliant writer/director of the movie Dope, Rick Famuyiwa helped remind us, a slippery slope.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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 Thanks

Pulling info straight from my retul report

Arm pad stack...bb to top of pad 638

Arm pad reach horizontal from bb to back of pad 408

This is a felt ia frd in a size 54
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TK17] [ In reply to ]
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TK17,

You could go one of four ways here. Let me work them outloud and then I'll give you my opinion on the best bet....
Option 1) a Medium with a flat bar, short stem and the max in spacers (a single 60mm and a single 20mm)
Option 2) a Medium with a rise bar, short stem and two 20mm spacers + three 5mm spacers.
-----keep in mind that those two options result in a Pad Y of 650 - 2mm lower than your number. The next Pad Y is 655 - 3mm higher than your number and then the Medium would have to have the rise bar with a single 60mm spacer under the aerobars. Also, in terms of Pad X - you're right on the edge of this set up: either pads back all the way on the standard mounts (yeilds a Pad X of 489 - 5mm longer then your number or use the TSP and push pads nearly all the way forward on those and I think you can get within 2mm of your 484
Option 3) a Large with a short stem, flat bar and two 20mm spacers + a single 5mm spacer. This gives you the 650 Pad Y.
Options 4) a Large with a short stem, rise bar and a single 20mm spacers - again, 650
......if you wanted to error up on the Pad Y in size Large then it would be 2x20mm spacers + 2x 5mm spacers for flat bar...or...1x20 + 1x5 for rise bar. And, in terms of the cockpit distance if you use the TSP with pads all the way forward you get 484 on the nose. If you forgo the TSP and mount the pads all the way back you'll have a Pad X of 511

Now....which is best...hmmmm... Go with the Large, the flat bar because it comes stock. Add 45mm of spacer so you are on the bigger bike with longer front center. It'll give you some room to move if need be.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Nov 26, 18 15:53
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [anthonypat] [ In reply to ]
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anthonypat,

It pains me to type this but I think the Canyon Speedmax is a bit long for your 418 (translated to an estimated center of Pad X). I need to do some digging on the CF but even the new, 2019 CF SLX (which has greater range) bottoms out at 426 (the 2018 shortest is 439). I'll keep digging and if something changes I'll get back to you.

I'm curious on your report - is there a seat set back listed and what kind of saddle are you using?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
A speedmax is my dream bike but never been sure if I could make it work with my height.

realbdeal,

Good video thanks for including. You could fit on all three sizes of the Speedmax, here we go....

If you rode a size Small - long stem on the rise bar with a single 60mm spacer + three 5mm spacers. Its' nearly the max
If you rode a size Medium - short stem on the flat bar with a single 60mm spacer + three 5mm spacers, pads a bit forward
.............or..a size Medium - short stem, on the rise bar with two 20mm spacers + a single 5mm spacer, pads a bit forward
If you rode a size Large - short stem, on the flat bar with a single 20mm spacer + three 5mm spacers, pads back the max

I'd do the Large - the Medium would work but with 75mm of spacer on the flat bar you're nearly at the max of the 80mm spacers and I'd want you to have the range to reduce your rather dramatic (~150mm???) arm pad drop. You could always acquired the rise bar and gain some space, but I still like the Large better.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
anthonypat,

It pains me to type this but I think the Canyon Speedmax is a bit long for your 418 (translated to an estimated center of Pad X). I need to do some digging on the CF but even the new, 2019 CF SLX (which has greater range) bottoms out at 426 (the 2018 shortest is 439). I'll keep digging and if something changes I'll get back to you.

I'm curious on your report - is there a seat set back listed and what kind of saddle are you using?

Ian

Yes, saddle setback -21 (ISM 3.1)

Pad reach for. Tip of ISM to back of pad is 429


Thanks Ian!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, thank you for taking the time to answer everyone's fit questions regarding the Canyon tri bikes. My current tri bike is a Scott Plasma 20 (2013, size 54), and I'd love to get a Canyon based in how much I love my Ultimate CF SL. I'm worried one won't fit me, though, based on your recent post. My Retul report from 2016 lists my stack as 656, my reach as 436, and my saddle setback as -24. Would a Canyon fit me? Thanks!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [FFigawi] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'd love to get a Canyon based in how much I love my Ultimate CF SL

FFigawi,

Some bikes are built to be a bit long & low and some bikes are built to be a bit short & tall. A rider who needs a short/tall bike can achieve a great position and can be fast - it's not about what the bike is, it's about how right each person can be fit on that bike. Your current bike is something of a short/tall bike and the Canyon is something of a longer/lower bike. Because of that you'd have to get into quite a corner on the Canyon to make it work. If you got a Canyon Speedmax in a size Small and set up the front end with these specs: short stem, rise bar, the TSP, a single 60mm spacer + a single 20mm spacer it would result in a Pad Y of 645 - that's 20mm lower than your current position. The Medium Speedmax will get to your Pad Y number but then the bike is too long for you. Even with the pads all the way back and the TSP the Pad X on the Small is 439 and that might be within tolerances at 3mm off.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:


Option 3) a Large with a short stem, flat bar and two 20mm spacers + a single 5mm spacer. This gives you the 650 Pad Y.
Options 4) a Large with a short stem, rise bar and a single 20mm spacers - again, 650

I think it would be good to add extension and pad width to your list of required measurements. I keep getting different spacer numbers to you and I think it's because I include the switch plate and TSP to get the Z elements - which then has an impact on Y.

Working on the monopost calculations this week.


Velogicfit bike geometry comparison l Speedtheory
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,
I really appreciate you taking the time to do this for everyone!

Pad stack: 584 (to center)
Pad reach: 508 (to center)

FWIW, I ride a Felt DA in a 56 and a Cervelo P5 in a 51 in the exact same position. Looking forward to hearing what you recommend for the CF SLX!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I think it would be good to add extension and pad width to your list of required measurements
.

I dealing with quite a few PMs that don't even have their Pad X/Y. I'm worried asking for more data will confuse the issue. I take solace that when the customer opens their box all the pieces will be there to allow for options. I want them to order the right size first and foremost. I'll keep on the engineers and see if I can tighten my suggestions.

Quote:
Working on the monopost calculations this week.

I'll be eager to hear. I was just sent the prescriber for that new bike but I only spent 10min with it in Kona so I don't know if the numbers I have a perfect.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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