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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [gaxt] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian, I bought the speedmax cf 8.0 L.
How do you measure Pad x (502)? to the beginning or the center of the pad?
Could you give me and advice on a good starting point for the seat (adamo pn 1.1). On the speedmax cf 8
Thanks for your help

gaxt,

Congratulations! I'm excited for you.

When I (we) measure Pad X for the Canyon (and lots of other super bikes) we measure to the center of the pad.

As for a starting point on the Adamo PN 1.1 saddle: you've got three pieces to solve: saddle height, set back and tilt.

You already know the neighborhood of your height: 790mm. ISM says that you should prolly go a hair lower for their saddles due to the way you're supposed to sit on them. - so let's talk about how you're supposed to sit on that saddle. The intention is that you perch off the front portion of the saddle and NOT way back on the rear of the saddle. There should be nothing sticking out the front of your shorts when you're on it like a road saddle might protrude.

And that bit helps inform your setback and doing that via text is pretty tough. Based on your seat height (from the previous post) and the fact that the Adamo is a "nose-less" saddle I would think the set back would be some where between 70mm and 20mm. But where you find comfort on the saddle is a factor as is your femur length - there's just so much that goes into that - which is the most critical fit coordinate. In fact when good fitters (educated, experience, and HAVE the proper tooling - dynamic fit bike) we start with larger set back and do a fit around that. Then move the seat forward and redo the fit around that new, lesser set back, and then move the saddle forward again and keep going through 4 or 5 different saddle set back positions until the best is revealed through both body angles AND feeling of power from the rider.

Lastly and perhaps the easiest choice is the saddle tilt. Judge this from the top of the saddle and not the rails. I'd start with the nose pointing down ONLY slightly maybe 1 or 2 degrees.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian, Thanks for your advices.

My girlfriend is also thinking on a speedmax cf 8.0 :) Do you think she'll be fine on an S?

Height: 170 cm
Inseam: 80.8
Shoulder: 36
Arm length: 58

Actual BB to seat: 71.8


Thanks for your help
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [gaxt] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian, My girlfriend is also thinking on a speedmax cf 8.0 :) Do you think she'll be fine on an S?
Height: 170 cm , Inseam: 80.8 , Shoulder: 36 , Arm length: 58 , Actual BB to seat: 71.8
Thanks for your help

gaxt,
This is all about the CF and not the XLS - just to be clear.......I suspect that her Pad Y is roughly 563 and Pad X is approximately 457. She's going to have to be on an XS. The lowest the Small goes (we're talking Pad Y for a sec) is 582 and while she might be able to ride a small I just think - even with it slammed - she'd be up in the wind, not optimized for hip power or comfort. So for the Pad Y is has to be the XS and she's only going to need ~10mm of spacer under the stem and no spacers under the aerobars.

Now let's talk Pad X..... the longest the XS goes is 455 and I think she might ride 2mm longer than that - 2mm is sometimes acceptable noise especially in cockpit distance since some folks like their elbows on the center of the pad and some like 'em hanging off the back of the pad a few mm - so there's wiggle room and 2mm might not be an issue. Here's my advice: get the XS, set it up with the pads as far away as possible. If it's not enough just call Canyon and acquire an 80mm stem to replace the 70mm that comes stock on the XS. The might not be needed but it's the solve if the bike is too cramped for her.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Am looking at the slx, but will consider the cf if it fits me better. My measurements are:

Arm pad x - 500mm (to centre of pad)
Arm pad y - 620mm
Height - 176cm
Inseam - 86cm
Cranks - 165mm (will swap out the stock cranks)

Will a medium slx be ok? Thanks in advance!
Last edited by: Roary: Jun 20, 19 3:22
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

We met a few weeks ago at the Austin 360 event. Thanks so much for the time getting me fitted. One of the things you suggested was getting off of the 172.5mm to 165mm. That is my eventual plan but finding the correct crank arms has proven challenging. In the meantime is there a way we can convert my numbers to work with my current 172.5mm until I get the hardware to make the switch? Thanks so much.

Pad x - 522
Pad y - 757
Saddle height - 890
Pad elevation-110
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [thebod] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,
We met a few weeks ago at the Austin 360 event. Thanks so much for the time getting me fitted. One of the things you suggested was getting off of the 172.5mm to 165mm. That is my eventual plan but finding the correct crank arms has proven challenging. In the meantime is there a way we can convert my numbers to work with my current 172.5mm until I get the hardware to make the switch? Thanks so much.
Pad x - 522
Pad y - 757
Saddle height - 890
Pad elevation-110

thebod,
For Sure! If I'm remembering correctly we did an Express Fit with 165 cranks and came up with those nubmers based on that crank. Okay, If I'm right here are the numbers massaged for 172.5

Pad X 522
Pad Y 750
Saddle Height - 883
Pad Elevation - 104

Essentially here's the thinking.... we did a fit with 165s and got some numbers. If the cranks are 172.5 that's 7.5 mm difference. So the saddle height has to go lower by 7.5mm (most folks can't feel 1mm change in stuff so we need not get our panties in a twist over 1/2mm and speaking of panties, .5mm in saddle height is the difference between the fluffled up pad in our shorts at the start of a ride and the compressed pad in the same shorts an hour into that ride). Since the saddle's going lower for longer cranks the pads have to go lower too to maintain the same drop. The drop and the PadY are sort of the same thing or at least the movement of one number informs the others. Pad X stays pretty much the same.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Jun 27, 19 11:58
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Roary] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
Am looking at the slx, but will consider the cf if it fits me better. My measurements are:
Arm pad x - 500mm (to centre of pad)
Arm pad y - 620mm
Height - 176cm
Inseam - 86cm
Cranks - 165mm (will swap out the stock cranks)
Will a medium slx be ok? Thanks in advance!

Roary,
Sorry for the delay, I did miss this one.
Yes, for sure a Medium and you're right in the middle of that size in a great way: small stem with pads near the middle holes, and 25mm of arm pad pedestal.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks so much! Yes, you are correct on the express fit and the 165 cranks. That makes total sense, I didn’t want to over think it. Again I really appreciate your time.

Best,

Kyle
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Hi Ian,
Am looking at the slx, but will consider the cf if it fits me better. My measurements are:
Arm pad x - 500mm (to centre of pad)
Arm pad y - 620mm
Height - 176cm
Inseam - 86cm
Cranks - 165mm (will swap out the stock cranks)
Will a medium slx be ok? Thanks in advance!

Roary,
Sorry for the delay, I did miss this one.
Yes, for sure a Medium and you're right in the middle of that size in a great way: small stem with pads near the middle holes, and 25mm of arm pad pedestal.

Ian

No worries Ian, thanks very much.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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This thread is just what I was looking for. I’m in the market for my first TT bike. Want to go with a speedmax. Either model is in scope. There is a distinct lack of good TT bike fitters near me (last experience started with KOPS ffs) so I’d really appreciate a bit of a steer on size / setup. I do plan to go further afield to look for a fitter also if possible.

Details I have to hand:

Height 188.5cm
Inseam 92.5cm
Arm span 202cm

Road bike saddle height 83.7cm
Road bike Bar X 50.8cm
Road bike Bar Y 64.6cm
Saddle setback 12.0cm (Adamo)
Saddle bar reach 62.5cm

Cheers

Rick
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [RickTChemist] [ In reply to ]
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I have some chafing issue inside legs. I mean just under the pack.

I'm wondering if it can be a problem of saddle too forward or not? For the moment the pain is big enough to keep me away from the bike some days..
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [P3aceFrog] [ In reply to ]
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Hey,

I have a speedmax slx (2018 model) and its a perfect fit . Im trying to purchase the angled spacers for the aerobar and cant find them anywhere.
How can you order some? Will the aercoach spacers work as well?

Looking for some help to replicate my old position..
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [RickTChemist] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
This thread is just what I was looking for. I’m in the market for my first TT bike. Want to go with a speedmax. Either model is in scope. There is a distinct lack of good TT bike fitters near me (last experience started with KOPS ffs) so I’d really appreciate a bit of a steer on size / setup. I do plan to go further afield to look for a fitter also if possible.

Details I have to hand:
Height 188.5cm
Inseam 92.5cm
Arm span 202cm
Road bike saddle height 83.7cm
Road bike Bar X 50.8cm
Road bike Bar Y 64.6cm
Saddle setback 12.0cm (Adamo)
Saddle bar reach 62.5cm

RickTChemist,
I'm glad I can help. You've given me some good info here. I'm estimating your Pad Y to be 665 and your Pad X to be 504

If you were to get a Canyon Speedmax SLX you would be on a Large with the short stem (that one comes stock). Pads one hole forward of all the way back and 35mm of arm pad pedestal. This is nice because there's some room to move forward for a longer cockpit, a bit of room to move back if you need a shorter cockpit. You can also go up and down to detail your arm pad elevation.

If you were to get a Canyon Speedmax CF you would also be on a Large. Let's talk pad height first....the bike will come with some spacers under the stem (25mm). Leave them because then the top of the stem will be at the same elevation as the bento box and while some would argue that's most aerodynamic, others would argue that it's most aesthetically pleasing - both would be right. The bike will arrive with the aerobars as low as they can possibly go on the base bar - and 40mm of spacer in the bag of riser kit hardware. I think you'll need to use one - 20mm spacer, one - 10mm spacers, and one - 5mm spacer to get where you need to be. Now, about the cockpit distance - all my spec sheets say that bike comes with a 90mm stem but I had a CF in my fit studio yesterday with a 100 stem on it so??? who knows. If it's a 90mm stem the pads will need to go forward one hole shy of max. If it's a 100mm stem then you'll be dead center on the bolt holes.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian --

Following up on you fit suggestions and looking for more help here. As a reminder, I'm riding on a 2018 model size M. I took your advice and got the longer stem (85mm I think) which opened me up a bit. Also moved my pad further forward and closer together and got longer 51 Speedshop "Ultimate" extension which took pressure of my neck, back, and wrist.. It's a much more comfortable position on the trainer.

Problem is -- it handled much more sketchily on the road. I just can't seem to get comfortable riding this thing on the road. It feels like the steering axis (with my extended hand and elbow position) is just too far out in front of the wheel, which magnifies small inputs and wind gusts (only riding a 303 NSW front wheel). The handling feels much better when I "choke back" on the extension but then my elbows are hanging off the pads and I'd need to cut the extensions to reach the shifters.

Before you were saying you're pretty sure I'm on the right frame size, but I wonder would a Large frame alleviate this problem? Or is it just that my fit is messed up somewhere further down the chain?

I don't know what do to honestly, 4 weeks out from my first A race and just not really comfortable on the bike at speed in the extensions.

Here are videos of me:
1) "Proper" position: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgF7kyYVf-g
2) "Choked back" position:
3) Base bars:

Here are some coordinates:
1) Saddle height: 77cm (too high -- I'm having some Achilles pain lately??)
2) Saddle tip to shifters: 82.5cm
3) Tip of saddle to aero pads: 48.4cm
4) Pad width: 29cm



(edit: fixed "proper" position video link)
Last edited by: wintershade: Jun 26, 19 11:14
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian

Thank you for such a detailed, and rapid response. You gave me just what I was looking for :-)

I've just ordered and SLX in large. Super excited to get it set up and on the road.

I'll post my setup etc on here once I am dialled in.

Best wishes

RTC
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade,

Great videos and thank you for the detailed explanations. So thrilled to hear you are more comfortable. I love those 51 Speedshop extensions!!

Yes, I think you're seat is too high. It took me a few clicks to stop the video at bottom dead-center but I think you could lower that saddle height 5-7mm and you'd be better off. When you raise your saddle it will effectively change your arm pad drop so you might want to go a bit lower there to match what you have now in pad elevation.

As for the handling issue, this is tougher but I can say this for sure - don't get a large. this bike fits you. The difference between the stretched out and chocked up video is so slight that it's hard for me to tell a difference. A 30mm front is pretty shallow, if you were on an 80deep front and getting moved around it would make more sense.No doubt that narrow pads will reduce your upper body foundation and make the bike a bit harder to handle - wider pads should give you more stability. I don't see anything in your position that would cause the handling problem. Which then forces me to ask questions like....do you right primarily on your trainer indoor? Do you race technical stuff too: BMX as a kid, cross, mountain, road?

The lower saddle height and wider pads will help the handling. Try those and let's see what happens.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

You are doing great work here - thanks for taking the time to help everyone! I am looking to buy a Speedmax CF SLX 8.0 and I have had a really hard time finding someone in Kansas City, MO who can help me with sizing. I'm pretty sure I am a classic "tweener" and could make a small or medium work (i'm leaning towards getting a small from everything I've read). I used the Canyon online fitting and it fit me as a Small, but then I changed the height from 175cm to 176cm and it switched to medium. I'm currently on an old 56" Cervelo P2 that I bought used 4 years ago. My fit is basically an eyeball test that has been "good enough." Suffice it to say I am in for a major upgrade and looking forward to getting a nice bike and really good bike fitting. I am 175cm and 150lbs with a fairly "normal" body build. I currently race 70.3s and I am looking forward to making the jump to 140.6. I don't have Pad X or Pad Y info. I'm including a picture of me on my cervelo for size reference. I know without those measurements it's tough, but any input is welcome! I'm giddy to buy this bike and just want to pull the trigger.


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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
As for the handling issue, this is tougher but I can say this for sure - don't get a large. this bike fits you. The difference between the stretched out and chocked up video is so slight that it's hard for me to tell a difference. A 30mm front is pretty shallow, if you were on an 80deep front and getting moved around it would make more sense.No doubt that narrow pads will reduce your upper body foundation and make the bike a bit harder to handle - wider pads should give you more stability. I don't see anything in your position that would cause the handling problem. Which then forces me to ask questions like....do you right primarily on your trainer indoor? Do you race technical stuff too: BMX as a kid, cross, mountain, road?

The lower saddle height and wider pads will help the handling. Try those and let's see what happens.

Thanks Ian. REALLY appreciate this. BIG DIFFERENCE! I widened the pads ~1cm (from inner to outer holes on Team Switch Plates) dropped the saddle nearly 1cm and extended the extensions 5mm. Wow what a difference. One other change I made last night was using the Fork Rake Shift! Did some research an apparently my bike came setup in "agile" mode, so I flipped the little metal things to "stable" mode which added 5mm of trail. Boy, that also seems to have helped the bike track straighter at high speeds. This was my first ride (in 6 long months) where I though, wow... you know what, this bike is pretty awesome and just might work.

So, all said, I think we're finally in the strike zone. The main thing is you think 1) the bike fits, and 2) there's nothing about the longer stem or having extensions + pads fully extended that's causing sub-optimal handling?

To answer your other question, I split my time between trainer and outdoors, but do most of my outdoor riding on my Canyon Ultimate. So I clearly need to be doing more riding on the Speedmax. No BMX or MTB experience. Before tris only raced karts (as a kid) and cars (as an adult). I think the next step is to buy a Canyon Lux or Neuron this winter and hit the trails. Perhaps that would help with my handling confidence?

Thanks again!
Josh
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JordanEnglishKC] [ In reply to ]
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JordanEnglishKC,

If you can tell me your saddle height (center of BB to top of the saddle in the middle) I can get back to you with some good numbers.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian. REALLY appreciate this. BIG DIFFERENCE!

wintershade,
GREAT NEWS!!! Ride that thing outside often and master it so you can put out the power in aero!!! Don't risk the descents in aero or turns in aero. We only need to look at Froome's example of going to clear his nose with one hand as an example of how things can go south. Many of us (all of us?) who are good bike handlers know that the proper TT position is one with more weight on the front end and that does demand more attention from the TT position but it can and will be ridden safely and effectively.

Have fun!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

My current saddle height (as pictured) is 29 inches. I'll say again, for what it's worth, I have very little confidence in my current bike size, positioning (which is a lovely sentence to type when I have a 70.3 race this weekend). But anyways.. that measurement is 29in.

-Jordan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JordanEnglishKC] [ In reply to ]
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My current saddle height (as pictured) is 29 inches

JordanEnglishCK,

Of everything in your current position, the seat height is something in which you should be confident. I think you're Pad Y is right around 618 and your Pad X is roughly 470. That might be a hair longer and lower than where you're riding right now and it would be better.

You're in a really nice place for a size Medium in Canyon Speedmax SLX. You'd need the short stem which comes stock on that bike and you'd need either 20 or 25mm of arm pad pedestal (20 gives you 615 in Pad Y, 25 gives you 620 in Pad Y). Now, here's the only tricky bit - if you pull the pads back all the way on the stock mounts you'll have a Pad X of 475. It might be a bit long, it might not. If it was too long then you'd simply order a Canyon aftermarket item called a TSP (Team Switch Plate) and then you could pull 'em back to perfection as far back as 448 which I know is far shorter than you'd need.

Get back to me with questions if/when you have 'em.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

Thank you for the quick reply! I pulled the trigger and was able to get the last medium they had in stock! PUMPED. I will follow up with any additional questions once I'm on the bike.

Thanks so much,
-Jordan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

First post here after reading for several months, been using my Canyon Ultimate as a sort of tri-bike for some time and after a Guru bike fit i came to the conclusion i need something better fitting.
Just had my first bike fit yesterday and during the fit i became clear the speedmax CF in both L and XL should fit just , but i want to find out which one fits better.

the results of the fit are:
handlebar x 516
Handlebar Y 660
extension Profile Design 4525
extension length 325
pad reach 466
pad stack 720
pad offset 50
pad c t c 240
saddle height 863
saddle setback 45
saddle drop 131

length 193
inseam 95

basically i'm long, heavy and not very flexible.

Can you help me out ?
Last edited by: DanielB84: Jun 28, 19 12:48
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian, we met at interbike in 2016 at the coaching course. If still possible can I get your input on this? Here's my info from a previous message on this thread:

Pad X 422 to back of pads
Pad Y 537
Saddle height 698
Cranks are 170s
I’m 5’6”
I’m trying out a Dash Stage saddle but I don’t honestly know where it should go or I should go on it - switched from a Specialized Sitero, and before that ISM Time Trial (older).


Thanks a ton.

Jeremy
Last edited by: jeremyebrock: Jun 28, 19 14:11
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