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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all that info Ian! Truly is a massive help and I also appreciate the vid you provided as well haha. I do like the straight black color though ;) Have a good one!

Matt
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [xoslic] [ In reply to ]
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Kamil,

Great news about crank length!
Saddle set back seems "logical" - I can't speak to how it looks in text.
Measure your saddle height form center of BB to front third on that saddle (and then keep measuring it that way forever more), and yes, it should be a bit higher than your road saddle height.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Helo Ian,

Pad reach: 51cm to the middle of the pad
Pad stack:67 cm to the bottom

Can I fit a speedmax SLX or is the stack too high? Is the speedmax CF XL the better option?


Greetings


Luc
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Testrider] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Pad reach: 51cm to the middle of the pad
Pad stack:67 cm to the bottom
Can I fit a speedmax SLX or is the stack too high? Is the speedmax CF XL the better option?

Luc,

You can fit on a Speedmax SLX. You would be a size large, with the short stem, pads one hole forward of fartherst-back-they-can-go position, and 40mm of arm pad pedestal. You fit nicely on that bike!!!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Thanks in advance for taking the time to do this. I've been reading this thread for awhile and really enjoyed just reading all the deep responses.

I'm looking at a Speedmax CF, probs between M and L? I'm riding a road bike w clip-ons right now so the below numbers are from a fit on that... I dunno if that's helpful or not. But thanks anyway!

Height: 183
Weight: 77
Inseam: 84
I would say I'm more torso+arms, less legs

Saddle setback: 8.0
Saddle reach: 57.7
Saddle height: 76.0
Seatpost setback: 1.5
Crank: 175
Tip of saddle to aeropads: 50.0

Handlebar
X 488
Y 667

Frame
X 410
Y 606
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [icecubes] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks in advance for taking the time to do this. I've been reading this thread for awhile and really enjoyed just reading all the deep responses.
I'm looking at a Speedmax CF, probs between M and L?

icecubes,

I plucked some of the salient data from your bike below and I think your true Pad Y is ~640 and your Pad X is ~494.

For the Canyon Speedmax CF you're going to have to do the size Large. The medium could work too but not with the 80mm stem that comes stock on that, you'd have to get a 90mm stem to make the cockpit a bit longer (the pad height will be fine). I think the Large will look cool and feel great too because you should only need about 15mm of spacer under the stem (so slammed-ish....slammed adjacent). And the pads back one hole forward of as-far-back-as-they'll-go. This is good too because you've been riding a road bike for a while and your saddle set back - at 8cm, at your height - is rather large (especially if you're a bit more torso+arms). This new bike will need to be ridden forward more than you're used to - so that you're hips are nearly over the bottom bracket. My guess is that you might progress into this and in so doing the Large will give you room to move the arm pads out front.

I'm excited for you. You're gonna be rather shocked at how much more comfortable you'll be in a true tri position, and, therefore, how much faster you'll go.

Keep me posted.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian,

Any advice on parts that you would order with the bike that Canyon sells so it can be fit properly, and then if it doesn't turn out just return the part?

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hey Ian,
Any advice on parts that you would order with the bike that Canyon sells so it can be fit properly, and then if it doesn't turn out just return the part?

ChasingPB,

Hmmm...This is interesting. My thinking has always been order the bike knowing the parts needed to get the bike in the right spot and then you're good to go. But of course this is from the "fit first" perspective. We we chatted on this thread back in late January I made a hypothesis based on your morphology and am confident in that: Speedmax SLX, M, Short Stem, 25mm pedestal.

There are only a few aftermarket parts one can order for the Speedmax. They are:
  • The TSP (Team Switch Plate, you can see a pic on pg 7, post 156 of this thread). There's already 54mm of fore-aft movement in your Medium with Short Stem but the TSP adds another 30mm more to that fore-aft if needed.
  • A different length stem. Canyon makes two stems for the Speedmax SLX; a short at 65mm and a long at 85mm. I'm certain the bike will come stock with the short stem which is the one I think you need.
  • Tilt Kit. I haven't installed one yet but I do know this much - you get 0 degree tilt or 7 degree and nothing in between. Not sure if or how much the install of this this effects pad elevation.
  • High Stack Flat Spring - I do not know what this is but I do know it is needed when the pad's aren't high enough and you need to come up another 10mm. The max pad pedestal is 45mm, the High Stack Flat Spring can get us to 55mm
  • Rise Base Bar - the only logical argument I can see for this is if someone has 45, 50, 55mm of pad pedestal and they want they're brakes & pursuit position closer to their aerobar height.

I know that Canyon has this amazing return policy on bikes. Be sure to check and see if that's the same for parts.


Lastly...if my numbers are right you don't anything more. You'll be in the sweet spot of the stock bits that arrive with the bike and you can go up or down, fore or aft enough to find the right spot.


Keep me posted on that as I want to know how it goes.


Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi
I'm interested to know a little bit more about what's achievable with the stack on the 2018 Speedmax CF SLX 8.0
Quoted stack and reach;
595 - 648.
I know that Canyon make a raised base bar which gives you approx. 40mm extra arm pad stack.
I was also told (by Canyon) they make a 60mm spacer, but it can't be used with the raised base bar.

Does this mean maximum achievable is stack is;
708 with normal base bar and 60mm spacer.
688 with raised base bar.

any help appreciated Cal
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Cal Naughton Jr] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'm interested to know.....the stack on the 2018 Speedmax CF SLX 8.0
Quoted stack and reach; 595 - 648.
I know that Canyon make a raised base bar which gives you approx. 40mm extra arm pad stack.
I was also told (by Canyon) they make a 60mm spacer, but it can't be used with the raised base bar.

Carl,
Good question. There are some who follow this thread and learn from it so let's hit the important note on this post...we're talking about the Pad Stack (Pad Y) range of 2018 (twentyEIGHTEEN) Speedmax SLX. Everything I'm about to type is not applicable to the 2019, which has a different front end with different numbers and options.

The full Pad Y range of the 2018 Speedmax SLX size Large (you didn't specify size but based on the numbers...I got you) is 595 at the low end and 710mm at the high end. Let's break down the details on this range...
The 2018 bike offered 3 different base bars: Drop, Flat, Rise. The aerobars mount in such a way that the Pad height is effected by the choice of bar and you already get that.
  1. Drop Bar's complete range is 595 to 675
  2. Flat Bar's complete range is 605 to 685
  3. Rise Bar's complete range is 630 to 710


The bikes come stock with the flat bar AND three 5mm spacers and two 20mm spacers to combine for a total of 55mm. I say "complete range" because to get to the maximum of any of those ranges you need two aftermarket items: 1) is the Rise Bar. 2) is the a 60mm spacer and then you would use just one 60mm spacer to get to 60mm of arm pad pedestal. Beyond that it would be a 60+5, 60+5+5, 60+5+5+5, or finally a 60+20 to get to the max.


Quote:
I was also told (by Canyon) they make a 60mm spacer, but it can't be used with the raised base bar.
I have never heard this. And the perscribers I'm living off of show the allowable ranges with 60mm pedestal on a Rise bar for all three size bikes. Okay, there are two things we can do. Get back to me on your source of the Rise bar + the 60mm pedestal being a "no-no". If that person sounds respected I will contact the engineer in Germany who acts as my most trusted source on such matters.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian
That's an awesome response and appreciated. I missed out the crucial bit of info apologies, it was actually a medium frame I was talking about
which on the Australian Canyon website has the following ranges in standard configuration;
Stack range 595 - 648
Reach range 475 - 549

The information about using the 60mm spacer came from the general email enquires from the Australian Canton website.
Would you mind putting together the information you outlined below for the Medium frame.

once again really appreciate your input

Cal
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Cal Naughton Jr] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Would you mind putting together the information you outlined below for the Medium frame.

Cal,

Awww, no worries. I was SURE you meant a Large.

For the medium...
The full Pad Y of the 2018 Speedmax SLX size Medium is 555 to 675.
1. Drop Bar's complete range is 555 to 635
2. Flat Bar's complete range is 570-650
3. Rise Bar's complete range is 595-675

The Pad X on this bike...
1. Short stem 489-516 (if you use the TSP you can get down to 462)
2. Long stem 516-536 (if you use the TSP you can stretch it out to 563)

Everything I have indicates that it's okay to use a 60mm pedestal with the Rise bar. I've never heard anything to the contrary ('til your post). It is, of course, critical that you match the proper length bolts with pedestal combo so that there are enough threads to hold it all together properly.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian
Much appreciated, it sounds like I may not achieve the pad Y required with the Speedmax which is a shame but just to be clear,
the figure you quoted below does include the 60mm pedestal? or not?


Quote:
3. Rise Bar's complete range is 595-675


cheers

Cal
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Cal Naughton Jr] [ In reply to ]
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Cal,

Yeah, I think I get the direction you're headed here - which is up. So, the max would be achieved with rise bar, a single 60mm + a single 20mm pedestal and that would result in the max Pad Y of 675.

Ian

PS the Speedmax CF in size Medium has a max Pad Y of 714.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian
Thanks again, I like the detail and how things work and you've provided it! It's always difficult to get the detail out of the bike manufactures a set of
drawings with spacer options would be helpful.

Numbers from last bike fit below, I thought the Speedmax CF SLX might be pushing it.

Last bike Shiv L (to big)
Current saddle Cobb Fifty Five (best so Far)
5'11"
Saddle height 780
Pad Y - 705
Pad X - 460

I understand these are slightly odd numbers but have had 2 back surgeries, I find it difficult to find a saddle that works and this intern means
Pad Y is higher than it probably should be.

Once again many thanks appreciate your patience.

cheers

Cal
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian.

Question for you.
I was last fitted (FIST) at the end of 2010.
I haven't changed my fit since then. (other than replacing my saddle - Specialized Sitero)
I do think I could now go lower, but I am unsure by how much.
Current dimensions on the bike - 2011 Argon18 E112

Pad Stack 735
Pad Reach (centre) 449

Saddle Setback (to nose) 65
Drop - 70

These were pulled off the current bike, but I won't claim they are fully accurate.
Picture in use attached.
as you can see, not an aggressive fit (But is UCI legal, which is a requirement, and still needs to allow me to run after)

Any chance I might fit on either of the current Canyons?
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Great thread, am thinking of pulling the trigger on a Speedmax so your assistance would be appreciated. I got the numbers below from a Canyon fitter who recommended me a medium.
Height: 182 cm
Inseam: 92 cm
Torso: 60 cm
Shoulder width:45 cm
Arm Length: 70 cm

I had a Guru fit done on my current bike (58cm Cervelo P2) in 2016 which gave me:
Pad Stack: 645
Pad Reach: 442

I would like to be able to get lower than I am on this fit, also I feel a bit cramped so the ability to be more stretched out would be nice.

Any advice would be appreciated.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Ian,


Can you please help me to select proper size of Canyon Speedmax CF7? My measurements are below:
Height: 175 cm
Inseam: 80 cm
Weight: 68 cm
Torso: 65 cm
Shoulder: 49 cm
Arm length: 58 cm


Thanks,
Roman
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Cape_Horn] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Ian.
I was last fitted (FIST) at the end of 2010. I haven't changed my fit since then. (other than replacing my saddle - Specialized Sitero)
I do think I could now go lower, but I am unsure by how much. Current dimensions on the bike - 2011 Argon18 E112

Pad Stack 735
Pad Reach (centre) 449
Saddle Setback (to nose) 65
Drop - 70

These were pulled off the current bike, but I won't claim they are fully accurate.
Picture in use attached.... UCI legal, which is a requirement, and still needs to allow me to run after

Any chance I might fit on either of the current Canyons?

Cape_Horn,

Short, Quick Answer: if you're going to stay with Pad Stack of 735 and Pad Reach of 449 then you'd need to be on the Canyon Speedmax CF in a size large but you'd need a shorter stem than the one that comes stock on the large. But, that set up would leave you in this position which I'm not happy about so let's go to the longer answer for as it's a far better one.

Longer, More Valued Answer: Everything about pic says "up and back" to me. That bike you're on has a seat angle of 76 degrees and you're on a road saddle (comfort is found rearward) so your hips are behind the bottom bracket in a such a way that it's forcing your cockpit to be short and your arm pads to be high - that's confirmed in the fact that you've got the tallest 3D headset top cap thingy + what looks like another 20mm of spacer + a +6 degree stem. Now, what might save this whole position is the new saddle because that new saddle might allow you to sit farther forward and give you the position your need/deserve but the question is - did the new saddle result in you flipping that stem (-6 degree), stripping out that 20mm spacer, maybe even going to the shorter/shortest 3D top cap, and moving the pads out or going to a longer stem? If, not - if you have the same front end set up with then new saddle then not much has changed.

You can be UCI legal and be in a comfortable (top priority), powerful (second priority), and slippery (third priority). A better position on the this bike will help you get there....also, a more modern bike with better geometry will help you get there.

I'd like three things from you if you can get 'em for me: 1) where do you live (city). 2) I want your overall height and 3) I'd like your saddle height measured from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of your saddle in the middlish. Get back to me with that and let's continue this discussion. #1 is cause if one of the fitters on "my list" is near you then I'm going to urge you to go see them. #2 & #3 are in case you are too far from a great fitter then I want to propose a Pad Y/Pad X that is far closer to where you could be.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian,

Great thread, am thinking of pulling the trigger on a Speedmax so your assistance would be appreciated. I got the numbers below from a Canyon fitter who recommended me a medium. Height: 182 cm Inseam: 92 cm Torso: 60 cm Shoulder width:45 cm Arm Length: 70 cm

I had a Guru fit done on my current bike (58cm Cervelo P2) in 2016 which gave me: Pad Stack: 645 Pad Reach: 442

I would like to be able to get lower than I am on this fit, also I feel a bit cramped so the ability to be more stretched out would be nice.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Stimps9,

If we're talking the Speedmax SLX then yes, you'd be on a medium and yes you'd go a bit longer and lower as your wanting to be. Let me expand on that. The Medium Pad Y maxes out at 650, even at 645 you'd need a little aftermarket thing (Canyon calls it a "high stack flat spring") but at 640 you'd be in the realm of the 45mm of arm pad pedestal that comes with the bike. Also the shortest the Medium goes is 448 and that's with the aftermarket "TSP". You might still need the TSP to lengthen yourself out to 455, 460, 470 it's not 'til you get to 475 that you're in the stock Pad X zone.

You'd also fit on the Speedmax CF but that's a bigger discussion. Let me know if you want me to expand on that.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [rprotsyk] [ In reply to ]
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Roman,

I can do it for sure. Would you be able to give me your saddle height (center of bottom bracket to top of saddle near the middle)?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian,


Saddle height (center of bottom bracket to top of saddle near the middle): 74.5 cm
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Hi Ian,

Great thread, am thinking of pulling the trigger on a Speedmax so your assistance would be appreciated. I got the numbers below from a Canyon fitter who recommended me a medium. Height: 182 cm Inseam: 92 cm Torso: 60 cm Shoulder width:45 cm Arm Length: 70 cm

I had a Guru fit done on my current bike (58cm Cervelo P2) in 2016 which gave me: Pad Stack: 645 Pad Reach: 442

I would like to be able to get lower than I am on this fit, also I feel a bit cramped so the ability to be more stretched out would be nice.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Stimps9,

If we're talking the Speedmax SLX then yes, you'd be on a medium and yes you'd go a bit longer and lower as your wanting to be. Let me expand on that. The Medium Pad Y maxes out at 650, even at 645 you'd need a little aftermarket thing (Canyon calls it a "high stack flat spring") but at 640 you'd be in the realm of the 45mm of arm pad pedestal that comes with the bike. Also the shortest the Medium goes is 448 and that's with the aftermarket "TSP". You might still need the TSP to lengthen yourself out to 455, 460, 470 it's not 'til you get to 475 that you're in the stock Pad X zone.

You'd also fit on the Speedmax CF but that's a bigger discussion. Let me know if you want me to expand on that.

Hi Ian, many thanks for this however I’m afraid, even though these are the numbers on the Gurufit report they do not represent the measurements I actually have.... (or they do it differently) I measured my fit manually after reading your feedback and the correct numbers are:
Pad X (BB to center of pads) = 480mm
Pad Y (BB to pad) = 630mm

Sorry for my mistake, any chance you could let me know how this changes things? I’m looking at both the SLX and CF.

Thanks
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I measured my fit manually after reading your feedback and the correct numbers are:
Pad X (BB to center of pads) = 480mm
Pad Y (BB to pad) = 630mm

Stimps9,

No worries! For most folks these numbers are not something we need to know on a daily basis - in the same way I don't have to maintain the knowledge of how many BTUs my hotwater heater needs (uses?), I'll just leave that to the experts on the day I have to replace it (let that be never insha'Allah).

In the Speedmax SLX you are perfectly a Medium with a short stem (comes stock), 35mm of arm pad pedestal and pads one hole forward of the furthest-back-they-can-go position.

In the Speedmax CF you are exactly a Medium as well and with all the stock accoutrement.

You've got great choices there.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [rprotsyk] [ In reply to ]
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Roman,

I think you're Pad Y is very near 613 and your Pad X is about 473. Based on that....

You could go one of two ways on the Canyon CF

1) Would be a size Small. 613 puts you in a very nice spot for the Pad Y range on that bike: 582-669, and it'll be super easy to raise or lower your arm pad position to find the perfect spot. The Pad X on the Small maxes out at 472 and I suspect your Pad X is 473. The wiggle room would be 30mm of difference between elbows hanging off the back of the pad vs dead center on the pad. BUT...if my 473 is off by a lot (and I doubt that it is) you could remove the 80mm stem that comes stock on that bike and purchase a 90mm stem and gain more cockpit distance if needed.

2) Would be a size Medium. 613 puts you pretty close to the bottom of the minimum Pad Y - it's 605. The Pad X of 473 would be fine as there's plenty of range above and below that on the Medium.

It is super common that an athlete can fit on two sizes of bikes. It's true for you, for me, for prolly 85% of the population. I like it when there's a clear direction in which to lean, but in your case both options are VERY good - you could break the tie with color choice: as I type this the Canyon USA has the Stealth color (black) in size Medium (but not small) and the Oahu Blue in size Small (but not medium). If I were forced to pick one over the other I'd have you get the small so there'd be greater range on the pad height - knowing that if the cockpit were to cramped it would be an easy solve with the 90mm stem.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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