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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Snjo] [ In reply to ]
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I am currently riding a Canyon speedmax AL in size M, and thinking about upgrading to a SLX this year. I think size M would be the best option, but I am not sure about going for a size M or S.
Reach-470
Stack-661
Saddle height-760
I am 179cm
And do you think the new front for the 2019 model is worth the extra cash over a 2018 model?

snjo

Let me start by confirming something. The terms "Stack" and "Reach" identify a place on a bicycle framed at the top of the head tube. For a mortal bike the Stack and Reach are important. To prescribe the SLX (a super bike) I want to use Pad Y and Pad X. It gets confusing because we sometimes get loose with this terminology and default Pad Y to Pad Stack.....and Pad X to Pad Reach. I would expect your Pad Y to be 626ish and your Pad X to be 483ish. 661 and 470 don't go as well together as I'd like so I want to check in on the terms and numbers just to confirm. Get back to me on that and I'll proceed.

Here's my answer to your query about the 2019 front end being worth the price over the 2018. A very difficult question for someone representing Canyon to answer, but one I welcome for no other reason that to sustain my reputation for benefiting the athlete with honesty above brand loyalty. The definitive answer is: no. If you are able to acquire a 2018 SLX for super inexpensive price you should do it (get back to me on those numbers and I'll prescribe BOTH the new 2019 and the old version). That bike can only be found in some hidden back-stock (does that even exist with Canyon?) or used. That bike is fantastic! It won 4 Ironman World Championships. Is the new better? Yeah, sure. Is the new bike more comfortable than the old one? No, that's all about fit. Is the new bike more powerful than the old one? No, power is about the rider. The new bike has less drag than than the old one but in the real world the fit says a lot more about that drag then the bike itself.

Confirm those numbers and I'll get back to you.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
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For us to be certain it would be great if you called your fitter an asked them one, simple question: "this pad reach number on my fit form, is that to the rear of the pad or the center of the pad?"

I have other comments:
1) "seat height 766 but I think it should be 740". That's a 2.5cm difference. That's huge! It's not like you and the fitter differed over 3-5mm, this a big number in terms of fit. What is the seat height on your road bike?
2) Saddle setback 95mm - what saddle was used in the fit and where were you sitting on it (middle, forward of middle, or off the front). 95mm of set back seems dubious to me, and if we come to learn that your Pad X of 439 is to the center then I'm going to factor that into an opinion about what may have happened during this fit.
3) Don't settle for less than perfect with the Ultimate. Get the cockpit with the shorter stem but with 25mm wide pads I'm thinking a 42 is still a good call in bar width.

Ian

Thanks Ian, really appreciate you taking your time to answer these fit questions here.

The "Pad reach" (Pad X) surely is from BB to the rear of the pad horizontally. 439mm is rather short imo. Looking at the numbers and instructions how to setup the bike, HY states 454mm (BB to center of handlebar horizontally), then "Pad reach" from saddle tip should be way longer, somewhere around 480mm as you've stated above. And especially if my saddle tip is 95mm behind BB.

The saddle to BB setback 95mm does indeed sound a lot too. It's supposed to be BB to tip of saddle. It's the new Specialised tri(ish) saddle. Can't find the name printed on it and I threw away the packaging. I sat a tad towards the front of it. Maybe 2/3 towards the front while doing the fit.

I've also measured the saddle height again on my 3 bikes and they all hover around 750mm. 740mm on my fixed gear track bike, 745mm on the Ultimate and 750mm on my current TT of which the frame is way too small - can't get reach and stack right! Hence looking at getting a CF.

Regarding the Ultimate, 10mm shorter stem would definitely help improve the comfort! I ride a track bike with 400mm wide handlebars and they feel really good width-wise. So I might give 90mm/400mm a go (if it exists in H36 cockpit model).
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
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Hey Ian,

sorry for the followup but I'm interested in what you think the better choice would be. Thinking about getting the XL and additionally including a 70mm stem which would give me a nice range for the reach with a lot of potential to go longer compared to 11mm on the L (according to your formula)

Thanks so much!


cmart,

I welcome this follow up and any more that arise. My raison d'etre is fit and I want you to be comfortable, powerful, and slippery on this bike so let's keep after that goal.

I went back and reread your original post. I looked at all the details you gave and all the data I have. I think you should get the XL but do not order the 80mm stem right away. Hold off on that. When it arrives pull the pad cushion off (velcro) and mount the hard arm-rest shells as far back as they go (this is Profile-Design aerobar, super easy to work on). That will give you a Pad X of 508 to the center. The pads are nearly 100mm across so you may very well find yourself loving where your elbow sits on the pad or just off the trailing edge of the pad. By the way, Mat Steinmetz (a great fitter based in Boulder and designer/owner of 51 Speedshop aerobars) and I both teach fitters for the Guru Academy. He's adamant about elbows being on the pad, not hanging of the pad - on that damn pad! He'll do 7 minutes of material about it in class. Me, I'm okay with elbow being in the center of the pad, near the back, hanging slightly off the back - where ever if feels best to the rider.

One more thing on this - none of this fit will work, NONE of it, unless you love the saddle. This bike will come with a Fizik Mistica on it and it's a great saddle, millions love it. If you're not one of those millions then you have to get another saddle. The only way all this discussion about the Pad X will work is if your saddle is in the right place (seat height and set back) AND you are sitting on that saddle where it's supposed to be ridden (the front 1/2). If you are pushing your bum back to the back of that saddle to find comfort then the fit will not work. Just be aware of that.

Ian

Hey Ian!

Just to let you know, I ordered the CF in L because the XL was not in stock and also I might buy a PD Aeria Ultimate Stem + Hydration, so that would give me an additional 1cm reach should I need it. I let you know if it fits and thanks a lot!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cmart] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian!

Just to let you know, I ordered the CF in L because the XL was not in stock and also I might buy a PD Aeria Ultimate Stem + Hydration, so that would give me an additional 1cm reach should I need it. I let you know if it fits and thanks a lot!

cmart,

GREAT news!!! Play with the stock set up and see how it feels. If you go with the full Profile Design Aeria Ultimate system (stem, bar, hydration) it'll make your ride a full blown, super bike.

Send pics of the arrival when it comes in.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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For those who are coming to the Roadshow at Canyon HQ in Carlsbad, CA tomorrow. I'll be set up ready to do my first Express Fit at 8am. If we've discussed your Pad Y/Pad X, lets confirm it with an Express Fit tomorrow.

See you there, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian!

I want a buy a Canyon Speedmax CF 7.0

Gender: Man
Height: 182cm
Inseam: 85cm
Torso: 65cm
Arm: 62cm
HX: ~46-47cm
Saddle hight from BB center: 76,5cm

I rode in the last 4 year a Scott Plasma 2 LTD size S with a 110mm Stem and 172,5mm Cranks.

What do You think is it a Speedmax CF 7.0 WM 2018 in size M fit for me?(It is cheper than the Man Bike :-)) (Stem is 70mm-shorter with 10mm than the Man version Bike)
Thank you
Vili from Hungary
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know how to say this other than to just lay it out there..... There are Speedmax SLX 9.0 (that's the super bike, the high-end build, the new front end that's so sleek) in size medium available for the US market, now at https://www.canyon.com/...hlon/speedmax/cf-slx

The word I got was that 100 Speedmax bikes arrived and are available. I have no idea what types/sizes/builds but this is the first time since I started this thread that the any size of the new Speedmax SLX 9.0 has been available.

I'm typing this on Saturday night (just after the Roadshow), my bet is that they'll be gone by Wednesday.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Feb 23, 19 21:40
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
I asked the question today at the Canyon/Slowtwitch expo about crank sizes and fit. Thanks for your great answer!
I have a CF SLX size medium that comes with 175mm cranks and my fitter says I would be better on smaller ones.
I guess it is just frustrating that Canyon does not have a smaller cranksizes and you must replace a brand new crank.

Team Zoot So Cal
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Karl] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,
I asked the question today at the Canyon/Slowtwitch expo about crank sizes and fit. Thanks for your great answer!
I have a CF SLX size medium that comes with 175mm cranks and my fitter says I would be better on smaller ones.
I guess it is just frustrating that Canyon does not have a smaller cranksizes and you must replace a brand new crank.


Karl,
Thanks for being there yesterday. That was a great Roadshow!

Let me begin by saying that I agree with your fitter about the shorter cranks. Also I agree with you 100% with frustration. I spoke with the top man at Canyon USA yesterday and he told me the long term goal is to get to a place where the customer buying bike can make choices like we do now with group 9.0 (with Di2) vs 8.0 (with Ui2), or color - make choices like that with component specifics like crank length at the time of purchase. When I say long term, he seems to think it's 2 years down the road. So my response was - while we're waiting for that can we scale the cranks with the frame sizes much like we do with stems on the Speedmax CF - right now when you buy a XS CF you get a 70mm stem, the small & medium comes with an 80mm stem, and the Lg & XL comes with a 90mm stem. That seemed to take hold and will be a near future fix.

As a fitter I'm used to and seem to have come to accept the idea of buying a new bike, it having the wrong stem or saddle and removing that brand new item and swapping out with a retail purchase. The main problem with the crank is that it's just more expensive. The good news that most folks seem to be having is that a) they can pull 'em before they ride and sell 'em new and b) add crank based power to their new shorter crank purchase - feeding two birds with one scone (that's PETA's new idiom - my first use by the way).

So, they're working on it.

As I mentioned yesterday, 165 is the smallest the big players go right now (Shimano, SRAM) and lots of us should be on smaller stuff anyway - stuff that Canyon or really any bike maker would prolly not spec - so then you're looking at Info Crank, Cobb, Rotor to get to 160, 155, 150mm.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Feb 25, 19 11:11
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi, again. Here are my numbers from my last fit. I have removed one 5mm spacer on the front since that time, so the Pad Y would be 656. As you can see the Pad X is measured to the back of the pad, so you might add 40-50mm to get to the middle.
On a SLX size M, this puts me on the lower end on pad x and higher end on pad y. I am also wondering what a split nose saddle would do for the position. This might bring me forward on the seat, making the pad x larger?
I am also considering buying the angled spacer kit to get a higher hand position.



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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian, interested in your thoughts/recommendation based on a recent Guru fit:

Pad reach: 556
Pad stack: 765
Pad height: 43
Pad offset: 46
Pad Center to Center: 245


Hx: 602
Hy: 722
Sx: 161
Sy: 765

Saddle ht over BB: 829
Saddle setback: 26
Drop from saddle to bars: 48
Reach from saddle to bars: 896


Crank length: 172.5
Extension length: 267

Saddle thickness: 48
Saddle clamp to nose: 135

Saddle tip to center pads: 570

Extension pitch: +12 deg
Saddle: -5 deg

6' 3", ~190 lbs

Thanks!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [chrisrpdx] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian, interested in your thoughts/recommendation based on a recent Guru fit:

Pad reach: 556
Pad stack: 765
Pad Center to Center: 245

Saddle ht over BB: 829, Saddle setback: 26, Drop from saddle to bars: 48, Reach from saddle to bars: 896
Crank length: 172.5
Extension pitch: +12 deg
Saddle: -5 deg
6' 3", ~190 lbs


Chrispdx,

There are some numbers in here that give me pause. I expect that someone's drop (arm pad elevation) to be 12-15% of their set height. Yours is ~5%. There might be a reason...
1) beer belly for example - but you're 6'3" 190 and that doesn't say "big belly" to me
2) lots and lots of fused vertebrae, especially in the lumbar area.
2) fit didn't proceed forward enough (steep enough in seat angle) - but setback is 26mm and that seems sensible - unless...you were sitting way back on this saddle to find comfort, then this gives me a false reading.
3) fit process didn't entice you to ride lower on the front end. This happens from time to time - someone, fitter or fittee needs to step up and say "hey, let's keep going lower and see you can stay comfortable, maybe even find more comfort".

The drop speaks to your Pad Y and your pad y is a big number. If you were able to ride at even 10% of your seat height then your Pad Y would be 730 and that's a number that we can celebrate and put to use. The best Canyon Speedmax in the line for you is the CF. You'd be on an XL, which comes with a 90mm stem. That stem maxes out at a Pad X of 533. You'd need a 110mm stem and Canyon doesn't make that so you'd go out into the real world and get a Ritchey, Zipp, or Giant stem (they have a 1 & 1/4 inch to fit the steer tube). That would give you the length you need. The height would be right with some room to spare as it maxes out at Pad Y of 741. Now, If I'm wrong about my assumption, and you have to be up in the neighborhood of 760 in your Pad Y then all you'd do is acquire that new, longer stem in a +6 pitch and you'd be in the 760s.

Get back to me with questions or clarification.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Mar 7, 19 21:19
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

I measured the inseam, torso, arm length, ...etc to get me size recommendation for Canyon Speedmax CF SLX 9.0. Using following in inches, of course this is to the best to my ability measure them.

Height 70, Inseam Length 33, Body weight 160, Torso Length 23, Shoulder Width 19, Arm Length 23.

Here are my recent fit numbers in "cm" on my Cervelo P3.

Cervelo P3 Seat height- 75.5cm Seat set back- 2.0 Drop- 11.4 Reach- 49.4 Pad Width- 24.2

The recommended size from website is "M", and as this is tri bike, it will probably last buy in foreseen future. I wanted to make sure, and if possible hear your suggestions about using smaller size for aero benefit. If not, if the medium is absolutely the best for me.

Thanks for creating this help,

Regards, Onder
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [onder] [ In reply to ]
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Onder,

I have a firm belief that there is a hierarchy of accuracy in finding the proper Pad Y & Pad X before buying a Canyon Speedmax. Here they are in brief:
1) Get a pre-fit from an educated, experienced tri fitter who has the proper tooling (read: dynamic fit bike). The added brilliance of this is that you also get all your fit coordinates so that when your new bike arrives you can put it into the perfect position.
2) If you own a tri bike that has an excellent position then let's measure off the old bike to ID the proper new bike
3) Give me your saddle height and overall height and I can work it.
4) Take all your body measurements and plug 'em into Canyon's PPS

So, I can work with the numbers you sent me (755mm and overall height 1778mm - converted from 70in). But...if you like the way your current bike fits I could walk you through a way to measure it at home that could, potentially yield a better Pad Y, Pad X than tweaking the numbers.

Let me know and I'll act on either way you want to go.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:


Onder,

I have a firm belief that there is a hierarchy of accuracy in finding the proper Pad Y & Pad X before buying a Canyon Speedmax. Here they are in brief:
1) Get a pre-fit from an educated, experienced tri fitter who has the proper tooling (read: dynamic fit bike). The added brilliance of this is that you also get all your fit coordinates so that when your new bike arrives you can put it into the perfect position.
2) If you own a tri bike that has an excellent position then let's measure off the old bike to ID the proper new bike
3) Give me your saddle height and overall height and I can work it.
4) Take all your body measurements and plug 'em into Canyon's PPS

So, I can work with the numbers you sent me (755mm and overall height 1778mm - converted from 70in). But...if you like the way your current bike fits I could walk you through a way to measure it at home that could, potentially yield a better Pad Y, Pad X than tweaking the numbers.

Let me know and I'll act on either way you want to go.

Ian

Thanks Ian for getting back promptly, appreciated.

My bike fit number i gave you, are directly from my last fit, from a very experience fitter on Retul. I am somewhat happy with my fit, however i may need to adjust slightly (been a year), as my heart rate increases when on aero tuck. This could be due to new seasons adaptation issue, as i ride my road bike mostly, which i am very comfortable on.

My hope with the new bike is to find a better position with its geometry, where i dont have heart rate increase. If Small is workable, i can get the small and adjust to it, or Medium if the small would be a ridiculous decision. In this forum, i have seen a taller person(184cm) recommending definitely small, for example. As there are two choices, medium or small, if i am at the border, would you recommend going to small?

Regards, Onder
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [onder] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
My bike fit number i gave you, are directly from my last fit, from a very experience fitter on Retul.

Onder,

I want to apologize for the delay and misunderstanding. If you got a fit in which you believe/trust/rely - fantastic! I want 2 important numbers from that fit and it's Pad Y and Pad X. Those are numbers we need to prescribe between a small and a medium. The numbers you provided: seat height, set back, drop, and "reach" are great numbers and those can, and sounds like should be used, but to prescribe a purchase I want Pad Y (AKA Pad Stack) and Pad X (Pad Reach). Again, I can act with some of your body bits but I prefer the Pad Y and Pad X from that fit.

And...I want to go one step further... let's say that Pad Y and Pad X was never written down after the fit - that's okay. I still want the Pad Y and Pad X off this good position that you have.

What I'd ask you to do is take your existing bike, get it pretty darn level (kitchen floor maybe - resting against the cabinets so straight up and down that it's nearly tipping over). Then, drop a plumb line (even if this is makeshift like tying a string to a salt shaker) off the back of your arm pad (front wheel has to be straight in-line with frame) so it's nearly touching the floor. Then measure the gap between that string and the center of your bottom bracket. That's Pad X to rear of pad. Then do it again this time dangling the plumb line from the front of the pad. I want both those numbers. Then - and this one I fear is a two person job, but maybe not - put one end of a level on top of the arm pad and hold the other end (or middle) of the level right beside the nose of saddle. Then measure from the base of that level down to the center of the bottom bracket - that's your Pad Y.

If you can do this - if you're willing to do it. That's a more accurate number and one from which I'd prefer to work. HOWEVER, if this isn't possible then I can make an estimate with your height and saddle height.

Let me know, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian, I did the measurements you mentioned:
For PadX: The projection of rear of the arm pad to bottom bracket to center of BB is 18.25 inches. Interestingly, the nose of the saddle projected dead on center of BB.
From the front of the pad, this number is 22.875 inches.
For PadY: From the bottom of level on arm pad to the center of BB is 24 inches exactly.

Hope these can give you reference as to what my size would be, and how much wiggle it pay provide if i were to fit again in future on that given size.

Regards, Ian
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [onder] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks Ian, I did the measurements you mentioned:


Onder

I did some conversions and some math and here are numbers with which you should be confident:
Pad Y 609mm & Pad X 523mm (this is to the center of the pad)

There are two ways you can go - as you are already aware...

2019 Canyon Speedmax SLX, size small, long stem, pads one hole back from the furthermost mounting position and 45mm of arm pad pedestal. You can do that configuration with either the flat bar bar or the rise base bar.

---or----

2019 Canyon Speedmax SLX, size medium, short stem, pads one hole back from the furthermost mounting position and 15mm of arm pad pedestal. Again, flat bar or rise bar.

You asked me specifically a few posts ago this: .....
Quote:
hear your suggestions about using smaller size for aero benefit.
You asked, so here goes - I don't participant in the rabid belief/fascination/obsession our industry (and this forum) has for aerodynamic-ness. Yes, there's value in being slippery - yet it seems to me nearly everyone ignores the dozen or so priorities that MUST precede aero (training accurately, not being fit properly on the bike, not being skilled enough to pedal through corners or down a hill, carrying too much body fat, poor pacing, etc. etc. etc.) This is why we see venerable people (read: old) on modest bikes (read; shitty) with durable wheels (read: boxy & slow), with antique groupos (read: 9 speed), with ironic cranks (read: long), comfy helmets (read: vented) - crushing the bike splits of younger people on $10,000 bikes with disc wheels. There's a ton of stuff that matters before aero and then the aero gains are so easily erased with goofy, foolish actions.

My guess is that if you put a size small Speedmax in a wind tunnel and tested its drag against a medium, the small would beat it. I think this is true of all makes/models - And I think that matters for one person: Lionel Sanders and nobody else.

Here are the logical considerations to take into consideration between the two bikes:
1) Room to Move - by this I mean does one bike paint you in a corner in anyway. As it happens I think this might be the case here. You currently ride with a handle bar elevation (drop) of 114mm. That's ~15% of your saddle height, pretty sizable. You speak of having this bike for ages and I think you, like many of us, will find as you age you'll want to reduce the ol' neck crane and you might soften that drop to 110mm or 90mm. It's important to note that the small bike will only move 10 more mm - AND - you'll have to acquire an aftermarket item (high stack flat spring) to do it. The medium will let you move 30mm in that direction if you so desire. Also, if you ever want to go longer in your cockpit the small will dead-end in 4mm and you'll need the aftermarket TSP item to go longer.
2) Stock comfort - I've already noted the TSP and high stack flat spring - it's good to consider the elevation difference between the aero position and the pursuit bars (bull horns). The bike comes stock with the flat base bar. If you get the small the distance from the arm pads down to the brakes is 45mm for you. It might be nice to pruchase the rise base bar so that the brakes are in close reach from the aero position. On the medium there's 15mm of gap there and, for triathlon, I think that's better.
3) Availability - this is no joke. I started this thread on November 21st of 2018 and there were ZERO SLXs available then. There were no SLXs available (in the US) until February 23 and for the first 10 days after that only size medium. As I type this there are S, M, and L in the 9.0 and M & L in the 8.0. How many? Who knows. When's the next batch coming in? Who knows? I don't know and I've asked important people who seem unwilling or unable to tell me. So sometimes choice is about what's available.

If you've got more questions - bring 'em.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Mar 15, 19 20:33
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, it sounds like Medium is a better fit to me. Your approach to the details is incredible. I really appreciated your consideration of suggesting me all this, and guiding me in sizing.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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So I am thinking about replacing my Felt IA with a new bike. I have found out at my lst fitting that I need 2mm more but my 58 has no more room. Anywho i am thinkinf of the Speedmax CF or the CF SLX. Since you already have my fit report Ian i figure you can tell me what you suggest. I think XL is the only size that will fit me but I sent a message to Canyon and they said both models top height is 905mm. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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2mm is inconsequential.

Swimming Workout of the Day: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5784860#5784860;
Favourite Swim Sets: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...m.cgi?;post=5004659;
Unattainable goals for 2019/2020 season. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6944848#p6944848
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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When you need 2 mm for a proper bike fit i dont consider that inconsequential.

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Since you already have my fit report Ian i figure you can tell me what you suggest. I think XL is the only size that will fit me but I sent a message to Canyon and they said both models top height is 905mm. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

TizzleDK

I like this one, it's challenging.

I received the fit report but only 3 of the fields are filled in on the entire document
Fitness: 4
Fitter: MSL
Cykel: Tri

Also, I know zero Danish but I can guess from context, to be sure, I translated almost everything from Danish to English. There is no record of Pad Y & Pad X or Pad Stack and Pad Reach on this document. I get why you are focused and concerned about your saddle height - you've got this bike that is flawed in one specific area and that's saddle height. However....The Pad Y & Pad X are absolute critical numbers needed to buy any and all super bikes and I need those numbers.

If the fit doesn't produce those numbers that's not the end of the world. There are other ways we can get them....

What I'd ask you to do is take your existing bike, get it pretty darn level (kitchen floor maybe - resting against the cabinets so straight up and down that it's nearly tipping over). Then, drop a plumb line (even if this is makeshift like tying a string to a salt shaker) off the back of your arm pad (front wheel has to be straight in-line with frame) so it's nearly touching the floor. Then measure the gap between that string and the center of your bottom bracket. That's Pad X to rear of pad. Then do it again this time dangling the plumb line from the front of the pad. I want both those numbers. Then - and this one I fear is a two person job, but maybe not - put one end of a level on top of the arm pad and hold the other end (or middle) of the level right beside the nose of saddle - and, of course, get the level level. Then measure from the base of that level down to the center of the bottom bracket - that's your Pad Y.

If this is not possible then get me just two numbers: your overall height and your saddle height.

Last three notes:
1) I do know that that max seat height on the Speedmax SLX size large is 908mm and that's with a saddle that's 47mm thick (we measure that from center of the saddle rail to the top of the saddle).
2) I too think that 2mm in seat height is, perhaps an acceptable error in measurement. To give you an example: most of us train in a cycling short and race in a tri shot. The thickness between those two pads might be 3mm.
3) I'm willing and eager to keep working on this please get back to me when you can.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Stack: 590 mm Reach: 445 mm
Effectiv seat angle: >79 Saddle: COB JOF Fifty Five
Spacer under extentions/armpads: 60 mm
Height 195 cm
Weight (not telling you) :)


Heheh

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Stack: 590 mm Reach: 445 mm


TizzleDK,

I'm on a mission that is greater than just prescribing Canyons. I'm an educator first and foremost. So, please hang in there for this tid bit. The terms Stack and Reach refer to a place on the frame (top of the head tube). This is a critical number for "mortal bikes" - any bike that uses a normal stem, like the Shiv that was in the list of options that your fitter offered you. Pad Stack and Pad Reach is a very different number and the one we MUST use for super bikes. I dug it out of your fit sheet and tweaked the Pad X as it was to the rear and Canyon measures to center.

Your Pad Y (Pad Stack) of 740 and Pad X (Pad Reach) of 555. Now, let's be clear, you're tall. Your saddle height is 887mm and your arm pad drop is 137mm. That's a bit more than 15% - which I'd consider a healthy drop....and...with all of this taken into consideration. The Canyon Speedmax SLX won't come up to meet you. The max Pad Y on the large is 685mm - a full 55mm lower than your number.

The Canyon Speedmax CF however will do it. You would be on an size XL with almost the max spacers to get to 740. And for the Pad X, you'd have to remove the 90mm stem that comes stock on that bike and put on a 110 stem to get out to 555mm.

Your big worry was the max seat height. I'm not even 100% sure that the XL will deliver out to 887. Let me send a note to the engineers in Germany to confirm.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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