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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [twheat18] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, thanks for starting up this thread.
The bike I'm interested in is the Speedmax CF 8.0 SL. Canyon PPS calls for a Medium frame, looking to confirm with you.
Measurements are;

Height: 184cm
Weight: 81kg
Inseam: 89.2cm
Torso: 60cm
Arm: 64cm
Pad reach: 493mm
Pad stack: 707mm

Todd,

If you're confident of your Pad Y being 707 and a Pad X being 493 then the right CF is a size Large. The Pad Y on the Medium maxes out at 692 and that leaves you 15mm lower than you prefer. Even the Pad X on the Medium maxes out just 1mm shy at 492.

Get the Large.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian, I suspected the large was more appropriate after reviewing the specs on Canyon’s website. Odd that PPS recommends an M.

I am confident in those numbers and understand they’re high and short relative to most.

Any specific recommendation on cockpit configuration with the L? Spacers and such?

-Todd
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [twheat18] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Any specific recommendation on cockpit configuration with the L? Spacers and such?

Todd,

The Large comes with a 90mm stem and that'll be right for you. The areobars are for sure gonna be Profile-Design, and while I'm not sure which model (Subsonic or otherwise) I can tell you that it's SUPER easy to remove the pad cushion (velcro) and move the arm cups fore or aft to get the cockpit perfect. I think if the pads are one hole forward of the "farthest-back-they-can-go" position it'll be right on 493. You're also gonna want to be 7mm lower than the max height. I'm not 100% sure how you're going to do that only because I haven't had my hands on the CF yet.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian!

I'm thinking about getting a Canyon Speedmax CF SLX, and would like to hear about sizing.
My height is 192cm and inside-leg is 90 cm. My own guess would be a L.


Best Regards, Nicolai Wium

Neo-pro triathlete

https://www.instagram.com/nicolaiwium/
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [NicolaiWium] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian!

I'm thinking about getting a Canyon Speedmax CF SLX, and would like to hear about sizing.
My height is 192cm and inside-leg is 90 cm. My own guess would be a L.

Nicolai,

I am a firm believer that there is an order of excellence in the pre-fit process, a hierarchy if you will....
#1 is a pre-fit with a fitter who is educated by a fit school who gets triathlon, experience in tri fits, and owns a dynamic fit bike.
#2 is by taking measurements off of an existing bike that a rider loves, a bike where the athlete is confident in that position.
#3 is me plugging an athletes height and saddle height into a formula and coming out with a good estimation.
#4 is using Canyon's PPS on their site.

If you are interested in being fit by a legit fitter who can prescribe not just your Pad Y and Pad X but all your coordinates, give me your location and let me try and find a fitter for you.

If you are buying a Canyon Speedmax to upgrade from an existing bike that you like. Let's discuss how to take 2 simple measurements off the old one and I can nail the proper size frame AND front end configuration for your new bike.

If you want me to use my formula then let me know your seat height and I'll go to work with that

If you have are body measurements then go to Canyon's site and plug those into the PPS and use that result.

You're tall and much of your height comes from long legs. I'd love to know your saddle height from your road or tri bike.

Let me next steps, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Hi Ian!

I'm thinking about getting a Canyon Speedmax CF SLX, and would like to hear about sizing.
My height is 192cm and inside-leg is 90 cm. My own guess would be a L.


Nicolai,

I am a firm believer that there is an order of excellence in the pre-fit process, a hierarchy if you will....
#1 is a pre-fit with a fitter who is educated by a fit school who gets triathlon, experience in tri fits, and owns a dynamic fit bike.
#2 is by taking measurements off of an existing bike that a rider loves, a bike where the athlete is confident in that position.
#3 is me plugging an athletes height and saddle height into a formula and coming out with a good estimation.
#4 is using Canyon's PPS on their site.

If you are interested in being fit by a legit fitter who can prescribe not just your Pad Y and Pad X but all your coordinates, give me your location and let me try and find a fitter for you.

If you are buying a Canyon Speedmax to upgrade from an existing bike that you like. Let's discuss how to take 2 simple measurements off the old one and I can nail the proper size frame AND front end configuration for your new bike.

If you want me to use my formula then let me know your seat height and I'll go to work with that

If you have are body measurements then go to Canyon's site and plug those into the PPS and use that result.

You're tall and much of your height comes from long legs. I'd love to know your saddle height from your road or tri bike.

Let me next steps, Ian

Hello Ian

That all makes sense!

Right after the season last year I sold my tri-bike, so I currently don't own one.
But my seatheight on my road-bike is 79-80cm from the BB.
However, I did find some numbers from an old bikefit done on a Shiv TT 2 years ago, I'll attach it here. It's on Danish, but there is a picture of where the measurements belong. Hope it makes sense.
And yea, I'm from Denmark.

Neo-pro triathlete

https://www.instagram.com/nicolaiwium/
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [NicolaiWium] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I did find some numbers from an old bikefit done on a Shiv TT 2 years ago, I'll attach it here. It's on Danish, but there is a picture of where the measurements belong. Hope it makes sense.

Nicolai,

Makes perfect sense. Your Pad Y is darn near 672 and your Pad X is very near 518. For the new, 2019 Canyon Speedmax SLX you would for sure need a Large with either base bar (flat or rise), the short stem, you'd place the arm pads in the stock mounts and ~3 holes forward of the furthest rearward position, and you'd need between 40 and 45mm of spacer (40 gives you a Pad Y of 670 and 45 gives you a Pad Y of 675).

Keep me posted here on your purchase or get back to me with any questions.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Ian. Thanks in advance for your help.

Pad stack - 640mm
Pad reac (to back of pad) - 445mm
Seat height - 819mm
My height 185.5cm
Last edited by: EP: Feb 10, 19 13:19
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [EP] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hello Ian. Thanks in advance for your help.

Pad stack - 640mm
Pad reac (to back of pad) - 445mm

EP,

I'm gonna tweak the Pad X to estimate the center of pad (that what Canyon uses). So: Pad Y 640 and Pad X of 495, you could go one of two ways....
1) A medium with either bar (flat or rise), short stem, pads pretty much dead center of the stock mounts, and 45mm of pedestal. The Pad Y on a medium maxes out at 55mm and that requires an aftermarket item called a "high stack flat spring".
----or----
2) A large with either bar, short stem, pads all the way back to the max of the stock mounts (that's 498 by the way), and 10mm of pedestal. I think 3mm is an acceptable error in the Pad X but if you did need it to come back farther then all you'd need is a TSP (Team Switch Plate, again, aftermarket) to shorten the reach even more.

I think the Large is the right call but it's nice to have two options due to availability.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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What if I was leaning towards a CF... this is new bike #2 on the year with the Ultimate I just got, so while I'd love all that integration, just can't justify the purchase price.

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
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ChasingPB wrote:
What if I was leaning towards a CF... this is new bike #2 on the year with the Ultimate I just got, so while I'd love all that integration, just can't justify the purchase price.

Think I wouldn't overrate the integration anyway. Cameron Wurf uses bta hydration and smashes every bike split record. Also for ~200-250$ you could go for a PD aeria ultimate stem + bottle
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cmart] [ In reply to ]
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cmart wrote:
ChasingPB wrote:
What if I was leaning towards a CF... this is new bike #2 on the year with the Ultimate I just got, so while I'd love all that integration, just can't justify the purchase price.


Think I wouldn't overrate the integration anyway. Cameron Wurf uses bta hydration and smashes every bike split record. Also for ~200-250$ you could go for a PD aeria ultimate stem + bottle

Interesting - yeah with the money I'm saving going to a CF and already having a wheelset on hand, it'll be fun to use some of that elsewhere

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
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ChasingPB wrote:
cmart wrote:
ChasingPB wrote:
What if I was leaning towards a CF... this is new bike #2 on the year with the Ultimate I just got, so while I'd love all that integration, just can't justify the purchase price.


Think I wouldn't overrate the integration anyway. Cameron Wurf uses bta hydration and smashes every bike split record. Also for ~200-250$ you could go for a PD aeria ultimate stem + bottle


Interesting - yeah with the money I'm saving going to a CF and already having a wheelset on hand, it'll be fun to use some of that elsewhere


Exactly. Most probably spending on fit instead of integrated hydration gives a LOT more gains for $. I mean don't get me wrong, I'd take the most expensive SLX any day if it's a match fit-wise and it would be the same price as the CF.. But I don't believe that's the place to get the most bang for your bucks
Last edited by: cmart: Feb 11, 19 4:59
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Let's give this a go when you find a minute...

Measured to top rear of pad:
Arm Pad Reach: 450mm
Arm Pad Stack: 555mm
Arm Pad Drop: -140mm
Saddle Height: 717mm
Saddle setback: -60mm

Ideally the full Y range compatible with your prescription would be great

-Grant
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TriFluid] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Let's give this a go when you find a minute...

Measured to top rear of pad:
Arm Pad Reach: 450mm
Arm Pad Stack: 555mm


Grant,

A Pad Y of 555 is very low. If for any reason you think that might be off get back to me and let's discuss other avenues. I took your Pad X of 450mm and I tweaked to assume the center of the pad at 500.

For the 2019 Speedmax SLX it has to be a small and even as a small the Pad Y is going to be 565. That's the lowest the new SLX goes. The Pad X of 500 is no problem: it's the short stem with pads in the stock mounts and one hole back from max forward position - and, of course, slammed.

Now you asked for the full range of the Pad Y. We've established the bottom at 565, you can increase in 5mm increments but to 610. If you acquire an aftermarket element called the High Stack Flat Spring then you can eek out another 10mm and max at 620.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the quick response. About what I figured. Thick pads has me at 560 armpad stack but rounded it down to see at what point I would end up sized out of the frame. On a 48cm IA currently and nearly bottomed out without resorting to more obnoxious measures (undermount, the old Easton Attack bars, etc.).
Last edited by: TriFluid: Feb 11, 19 16:06
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

Fitting an existing bike and front end fit is fine (with 90mm stem) but run out of seat rail to push the saddle back further (using a https://ismseat.com/...e-recreation/pr-3-0/ saddle so the rail is already extended forward more than most saddles). Do you know if there is a setback seatpost available for a 2017 Canyon Speedmax?

Thanks

Dave Jordaan
https://cybercyclecoach.com/bike-fitting/
Last edited by: cybercyclecoach: Feb 12, 19 10:14
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian,

Steve Hall here. Per our conversation the prescribers are 5’7” (170.18) and 717.55 Seat Height.

-Steve
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cybercyclecoach] [ In reply to ]
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Dave,

I've never seen any alternate posts for the Speedmax. However, I feel like I've seen a couple of iterations of the rail clamp itself (I could be wrong about this). Can your clamp be removed and reversed to gain a couple more mm of setback? The image below looks like it's symmetrical so flopping it wouldn't help but I want to check in on that first.


Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Racing Yoda] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hey Ian,
Per our conversation the prescribers are 5’7” (170.18) and 717.55 Seat Height.

Steve,
I think your Pad Y is roughly 595 and your Pad X is 459. Based on that...

Your Canyon Speedmax SLX is a size small, with either bar (rise of flat - but, go with the flat bar), short stem, pads set one hole forward of the rearward most position in the stock pad mounts, and 30mm of arm pad pedestal.

I'm loathed to even type this but I'm gonna simply because I want all possibilities on the table. You could fit on a medium too but you'd be painted in the utmost corner: short stem + the TSP (Team Switch Plate) to pull the pads to 10mm of their shortest-cockpit-position-possible, and then the stem absolutely slammed with zero spacers. The result on the medium is that if the formula missed by even 15mm then you cannot go down even a millimeter more and you cannot get close enough to make the position optimal.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you - that did resolve my fit problem.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I too am struggling between deciding on the size for the CF.

Did a bike fit (Guru) a few months back and these are the numbers:

Cranks: 170mm
HX: 454mm (handlebar horizontal)
HY: 605mm (handlebar vertical)
SX: 195mm (saddle clamp to nose 100mm)
XY: 691mm (saddle clamp vertical)


Saddle thickness: 50mm
Saddle setback: 95mm
Saddle height over BB: 766mm (although I think it should be more like 740mm!)
Drop from saddle to bars: 76mm
Reach from saddle to extension tip: 892mm
Extension length: 340mm
Pad reach: 439mm
Pad stack: 665mm
Pad height: 60mm
Pad offset: 15mm
Pad Center to Center: 250mm
Handlebar + skibend extensions: T4+

I'm 180cm.

Looking at the numbers on Canyon's Speedmax CF webpage I'm deciding between S with heaps of spacers under the pads and M with saddle height set at 0? The saddle height and reach is what is confusing me!

I ride an Ultimate M and sometimes I do seem a bit stretched when riding on the hoods.
I believe I'd feel more comfortable on it if I'd replace the 420mm wide, 100mm stem length H36 cockpit to something like 400mm/80-90mm.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [surpher] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I too am struggling between deciding on the size for the CF.

Did a bike fit (Guru) a few months back and these are the numbers:

Cranks: 170mm
HX: 454mm (handlebar horizontal)
HY: 605mm (handlebar vertical)
SX: 195mm (saddle clamp to nose 100mm)
XY: 691mm (saddle clamp vertical)


Saddle thickness: 50mm
Saddle setback: 95mm
Saddle height over BB: 766mm (although I think it should be more like 740mm!)
Drop from saddle to bars: 76mm
Reach from saddle to extension tip: 892mm
Extension length: 340mm
Pad reach: 439mm
Pad stack: 665mm
Pad height: 60mm
Pad offset: 15mm
Pad Center to Center: 250mm
Handlebar + skibend extensions: T4+

I'm 180cm.

Looking at the numbers on Canyon's Speedmax CF webpage I'm deciding between S with heaps of spacers under the pads and M with saddle height set at 0? The saddle height and reach is what is confusing me!

surpher,
Thanks for including all your numbers it really helps me decipher the fit.

I'm supremely confident that the medium Speedmax CF is the bike for you and to explain that let's start with the easy one, the Pad Y. The range on the medium is 605-692 and your 665 sits pretty nicely in the middle of that. You need 60mm of "up" and I think you could do that nicely with ~30mm of spacer under the stem and another 30mm of pedestal within the aerobar build. The small maxes out at 669 and that's just 4mm away from your number - doable but less room to move in the future if you needed a tweak.

I pretty much have to insist that your Pad Reach (Pad X) of 439 HAS TO BE measured to the rear of the pad. I'm even more certain as I look at your HX at 454 and the pad offset is 15mm - that leads me to believe that your pads were 15mm behind the center of the bar bore (HX). I'm going to proceed with the assumption that your Pad X is really 480 - I'm adding 40mm to get at or near the center of the arm pad. The range on the medium is 467-492 and this puts you in a good place on that range.

For us to be certain it would be great if you called your fitter an asked them one, simple question: "this pad reach number on my fit form, is that to the rear of the pad or the center of the pad?"

I have other comments:
1) "seat height 766 but I think it should be 740". That's a 2.5cm difference. That's huge! It's not like you and the fitter differed over 3-5mm, this a big number in terms of fit. What is the seat height on your road bike?
2) Saddle setback 95mm - what saddle was used in the fit and where were you sitting on it (middle, forward of middle, or off the front). 95mm of set back seems dubious to me, and if we come to learn that your Pad X of 439 is to the center then I'm going to factor that into an opinion about what may have happened during this fit.
3) Don't settle for less than perfect with the Ultimate. Get the cockpit with the shorter stem but with 25mm wide pads I'm thinking a 42 is still a good call in bar width.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

I see that now. Thanks for your help. I don't think I could have figured that out without you.

Steve
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi.

I am currently riding a Canyon speedmax AL in size M, and thinking about upgrading to a SLX this year. I think size M would be the best option, but I am not sure about going for a size M or S.

Reach-470
Stack-661
Saddle height-760

I am 179cm

And do you think the new front for the 2019 model is worth the extra cash over a 2018 model?
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