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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
synthetic wrote:
SJK wrote:
Yeah it didn't occur to me that I might end up running faster instead. I'd be thrilled if I'm casually doing sub-8:30's by the end. Or if my HR falls that much.

This challenge is the kick-in-the-running-shoes I've needed.


On this train of thought why not just run 8:30s to run sub 8 in the end (or faster).

Why stop there? Just start at 6:00...so you can be running 5:30 at the end. /do-I-need-to-say-pink?

I feel some folk are not pushing themselves to run so target paces maybe low into jog zone. For me, the fastest sustainable daily 30 min rate would be above 6:40 per mile. As my experiment 2 years ago, 30 days 6:25 was sustainable for only 20 minutes.


http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [jond81] [ In reply to ]
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jond81 wrote:
karlaj wrote:
Interesting theory...I spent 2 months prior to this challenge treadmill walking up 9-15% grades b/c I wasn't allowed to run. Figured it would keep my HR up while reducing impact while my shoulder healed. My legs feel great now. So my n=1 backs up your theory so far. -J


I don't know the physiology around it but I know multiple people who swear by doing incline work on a TM when recovering from an injury or to ease off the joints a bit. I rarely run on a TM but when I do I always put it in a slight incline because I feel like I'm going to run off the front of the thing at 0%.

I don't run on a incline, but I do my cooldown walk at 3% or so

I don't know what compelled me to start doing that - after recovering from my hammy injury - butt it's worked pretty well so far

Existence Is Futile
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:

I feel some folk are not pushing themselves to run so target paces maybe low into jog zone. For me, the fastest sustainable daily 30 min rate would be above 6:40 per mile. As my experiment 2 years ago, 30 days 6:25 was sustainable for only 20 minutes.


Maybe...but, to quote DD, "its Easy to run too fast, its hard to run too slow." (or something to that effect)

You've been running a lot, for a long time, at a pretty fast pace. You've demonstrated that you can do that without injury. Lots of people can't---but, only figure that out AFTER getting injured.

For the majority of people that aren't on the front page of the standings...I don't think your recipe would end well after 100 days. For most people they will be better served by running as slow as necessary to be able to run again, and again, and again...for as high of a completion percentage as they can manage.

Other than as a stupid human trick, I'm not sure that just finding the fastest average pace one can sustain for 100 days in a row is very useful either. ((ETA: not that there's anything wrong with stupid human tricks.))
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Dec 6, 19 9:29
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
synthetic wrote:

I feel some folk are not pushing themselves to run so target paces maybe low into jog zone. For me, the fastest sustainable daily 30 min rate would be above 6:40 per mile. As my experiment 2 years ago, 30 days 6:25 was sustainable for only 20 minutes.


Maybe...but, to quote DD, "its Easy to run too fast, its hard to run too slow." (or something to that effect)

You've been running a lot, for a long time, at a pretty fast pace. You've demonstrated that you can do that without injury. Lots of people can't---but, only figure that out AFTER getting injured.

For the majority of people that aren't on the front page of the standings...I don't think your recipe would end well after 100 days.

I agree, I see more harm than value in trying to force zone paces. It may certainly be physiologically optimal to always keep in range of certain zones, but most people would likely net-benefit more purely off of an effort that puts them much more into the low jog zone. Pushing for mid-upper zone 2 all the time for most people is way too injury prone for way too little benefit over low zoning.

Fastest sustainable daily != most overall benefit

Did an Ironman once. Only runs now.
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
synthetic wrote:

I feel some folk are not pushing themselves to run so target paces maybe low into jog zone. For me, the fastest sustainable daily 30 min rate would be above 6:40 per mile. As my experiment 2 years ago, 30 days 6:25 was sustainable for only 20 minutes.


Maybe...but, to quote DD, "its Easy to run too fast, its hard to run too slow." (or something to that effect)

You've been running a lot, for a long time, at a pretty fast pace. You've demonstrated that you can do that without injury. Lots of people can't---but, only figure that out AFTER getting injured.

For the majority of people that aren't on the front page of the standings...I don't think your recipe would end well after 100 days. For most people they will be better served by running as slow as necessary to be able to run again, and again, and again...for as high of a completion percentage as they can manage.

I agree Tom, I'm done pushing that boundary and am happy eating my humble pie at a slow jog pace. Having spare capacity means I think I can weather some adversity (didn't get enough sleep, biked/swam/ran a little too much/fast the day before) and maintain the consistency without getting sick or breaking. B/c you can't improve if you're not training at all.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Life is tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid. -John Wayne
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [qintegral] [ In reply to ]
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qintegral wrote:
twcronin wrote:
Wow, that’s an impressive drop! How many running miles total this year?


Thanks tw and tom!

I went crazy with it -- 3800 so far, compared to 1900 in 2018 and 200 in 2017. Hoping to stay on track to close out 4000 for the year.

Impressive. That's what 80-90 mpw...presumably with quite a few weeks north of 100mi? And, to think I was pretty happy with 45!!!

I'm curious what your approach to training pace was with that much volume? Ie: How much intensity, etc? or was it all/mostly easy pace..and just tons of mileage?
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
I feel some folk are not pushing themselves to run so target paces maybe low into jog zone.

What do you even know about my running and how hard I push myself? Quit judging.

Yesterday I ran on the Avocado Trail which is currently mud and totally torn up from the rains, in addition to going either straight up or straight down. Where I am, there’s nothing flat. NOTHING flat, Mr. Mission Bay.

Other people are running terrain similar to mine AND they’re dealing with snow, ice, howling winds, and wolves.

You’re running in San Diego. Perfect temps, even in the worst weather.

My goal for this 100/100 is self-control. I want to run every day. If I get egotistical and overreach in speed or distance or number of runs in a day, I won’t make my goal.

In sum, you’re running in the best conditions. You’re welcome to fixate on your own speed. But don’t suggest that other runners are taking it too easy by not having a speed goal like you. We’re doing our own thing.
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
synthetic wrote:

I feel some folk are not pushing themselves to run so target paces maybe low into jog zone. For me, the fastest sustainable daily 30 min rate would be above 6:40 per mile. As my experiment 2 years ago, 30 days 6:25 was sustainable for only 20 minutes.


Maybe...but, to quote DD, "its Easy to run too fast, its hard to run too slow." (or something to that effect)

You've been running a lot, for a long time, at a pretty fast pace. You've demonstrated that you can do that without injury. Lots of people can't---but, only figure that out AFTER getting injured.

For the majority of people that aren't on the front page of the standings...I don't think your recipe would end well after 100 days. For most people they will be better served by running as slow as necessary to be able to run again, and again, and again...for as high of a completion percentage as they can manage.

Other than as a stupid human trick, I'm not sure that just finding the fastest average pace one can sustain for 100 days in a row is very useful either. ((ETA: not that there's anything wrong with stupid human tricks.))

Actually I am riddled with injuries, for my age category my times are not good.

Calamityjane88 wrote:
synthetic wrote:
I feel some folk are not pushing themselves to run so target paces maybe low into jog zone.

What do you even know about my running and how hard I push myself? Quit judging.

Yesterday I ran on the Avocado Trail which is currently mud and totally torn up from the rains, in addition to going either straight up or straight down. Where I am, there’s nothing flat. NOTHING flat, Mr. Mission Bay.

Other people are running terrain similar to mine AND they’re dealing with snow, ice, howling winds, and wolves.

You’re running in San Diego. Perfect temps, even in the worst weather.

My goal for this 100/100 is self-control. I want to run every day. If I get egotistical and overreach in speed or distance or number of runs in a day, I won’t make my goal.

In sum, you’re running in the best conditions. You’re welcome to fixate on your own speed. But don’t suggest that other runners are taking it too easy by not having a speed goal like you. We’re doing our own thing.

Actually I rarely run mission bay, live in hillier areas of SD. But yes you hopefully are doing your best sustainable 30 minutes. Unfortunately we have no stable RPE measurement or real running power meter to show effort.. nearest stat we can work is pace.
This challenge should be, challenging. So for myself I dialed in a manageable sub goal. Would be great if others announced their sub goals too


http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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My sub goal is to "get out the damn door". It's cold, dark, snowy and I'm tired. And my toddler and I keep trading colds back and forth (currently sitting at my desk with my coat on).

Not all of us are "runners", some of us are just attempting to be better than we were.
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [edbikebabe] [ In reply to ]
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CalamityJane88 wrote:
My goal for this 100/100 is self-control. I want to run every day. If I get egotistical and overreach in speed or distance or number of runs in a day, I won’t make my goal.
...
We’re doing our own thing.

edbikebabe wrote:
My sub goal is to "get out the damn door". It's cold, dark, snowy and I'm tired. And my toddler and I keep trading colds back and forth (currently sitting at my desk with my coat on).

Not all of us are "runners", some of us are just attempting to be better than we were.

Double +1

----------------------------------------------------------------
Life is tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid. -John Wayne
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:


Actually I am riddled with injuries, for my age category my times are not good.


If that's the case, then I find your approach.........puzzling.

I run more or less the same 5k as you. But, I'm 51. Until the last 2 months I haven't done any speed work at all.

I haven't had a run injury in over two years.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Dec 6, 19 11:05
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [EricTheBiking] [ In reply to ]
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EricTheBiking wrote:
Those of you with trouble with the Strava integration, you might just need to use the "Reset Authentication" button in the Strava page, since Strava has changed their OAuth (Single Sign On) functionality since the last 100/100 and the old data that the log hangs on to is no longer valid.

i'm still having that problem and i can't find on my strava account a reset authorization button. any hint where to find it?

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
Tom_hampton wrote:
synthetic wrote:
SJK wrote:
Yeah it didn't occur to me that I might end up running faster instead. I'd be thrilled if I'm casually doing sub-8:30's by the end. Or if my HR falls that much.

This challenge is the kick-in-the-running-shoes I've needed.


On this train of thought why not just run 8:30s to run sub 8 in the end (or faster).


Why stop there? Just start at 6:00...so you can be running 5:30 at the end. /do-I-need-to-say-pink?


I feel some folk are not pushing themselves to run so target paces maybe low into jog zone. For me, the fastest sustainable daily 30 min rate would be above 6:40 per mile. As my experiment 2 years ago, 30 days 6:25 was sustainable for only 20 minutes.

I generally agree with the other responses that there's no problem running almost all runs easy -- especially if you haven't run as a daily habit before. But I also like this Kevin Beck quote:

"If you're in a period of training with no immediate racing goals (and thus presumably not doing a lot of track or interval work), you can run as fast as you want to every day. If you're a little tired the next day, good. You should be. If you're really whipped, consciously back off and you'll probably feel fresher soon enough. There are no magical programs or formulas when it comes to building strength in the off-season. Run as much as you can as often as possible and run like hell when moved to do so. That seemingly oversimplified piece of advice is not a cop-out or a spitting in the face of science or specifics; it's a real prescription for long-term success. I have benefitted tremendously from this approach, as have many runners far better than me."

Basically, the point being that the classic model of strongly polarized training with easy days very easy and hard days very hard is most relevant when doing some sort of structured race preparation. Otherwise, you can let it rip if you feel good, you should back off if you're tired/sore, and you'll probably improve more than if you did only easy running every day.
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
Impressive. That's what 80-90 mpw...presumably with quite a few weeks north of 100mi? And, to think I was pretty happy with 45!!!

I'm curious what your approach to training pace was with that much volume? Ie: How much intensity, etc? or was it all/mostly easy pace..and just tons of mileage?

Thanks! Yeah there were a few weeks of off/low, a good chunk in the 80-90, and another good chunk in the 100 (more in the first half of the year). When I first started out, starting during last year's 100/100, it was 100% easy just to try to see what my body could handle. Then for probably about 6-7 months out of the year I was also doing 2-3 quality days mixed in (for two goal marathon cycles).

45 is no joke either! I happened to find that I'm decently durable and mundane enough of a person to just spend a dumb amount of time running ha.

Did an Ironman once. Only runs now.
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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twcronin wrote:


I generally agree with the other responses that there's no problem running almost all runs easy -- especially if you haven't run as a daily habit before. But I also like this Kevin Beck quote:

"If you're in a period of training with no immediate racing goals (and thus presumably not doing a lot of track or interval work), you can run as fast as you want to every day. If you're a little tired the next day, good. You should be. If you're really whipped, consciously back off and you'll probably feel fresher soon enough. There are no magical programs or formulas when it comes to building strength in the off-season. Run as much as you can as often as possible and run like hell when moved to do so. That seemingly oversimplified piece of advice is not a cop-out or a spitting in the face of science or specifics; it's a real prescription for long-term success. I have benefitted tremendously from this approach, as have many runners far better than me."

Basically, the point being that the classic model of strongly polarized training with easy days very easy and hard days very hard is most relevant when doing some sort of structured race preparation. Otherwise, you can let it rip if you feel good, you should back off if you're tired/sore, and you'll probably improve more than if you did only easy running every day.


Yeah that's definitely true -- you can probably reap very similar long term success just going with the flow and running hard when you feel inclined, and backing off when you feel tired. In many ways, that is essentially polarized training in disguise, and arguably even better if you listen to your body instead of a written plan. Very similar ideals to Hudson's adaptive training approach (see book "Run Faster from the 5K to the Marathon").

I still don't really like the approach of best sustainable 30 minutes per day, but I'm also biased toward long term running improvement and anyone's personal twist on the challenge is their own.


synthetic wrote:
Actually I rarely run mission bay, live in hillier areas of SD. But yes you hopefully are doing your best sustainable 30 minutes. Unfortunately we have no stable RPE measurement or real running power meter to show effort.. nearest stat we can work is pace.
This challenge should be, challenging. So for myself I dialed in a manageable sub goal. Would be great if others announced their sub goals too

I do understand the sentiment here. For some people doing the actual 100/100 may not be a challenge with respect to what they are already used to. I guess I'll choose a sub goal to hit ~1150 miles for the challenge, essentially to keep the volume up pretty steady in the off-season and around holidays/vacations! I imagine bluestack's sub goal is something otherworldly...

Did an Ironman once. Only runs now.
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
EricTheBiking wrote:
Those of you with trouble with the Strava integration, you might just need to use the "Reset Authentication" button in the Strava page, since Strava has changed their OAuth (Single Sign On) functionality since the last 100/100 and the old data that the log hangs on to is no longer valid.


i'm still having that problem and i can't find on my strava account a reset authorization button. any hint where to find it?

Not on the Strava page - on your training log page.
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
This challenge should be, challenging. So for myself I dialed in a manageable sub goal. Would be great if others announced their sub goals too

Qualitative sub-goals for me:
a) stay healthy / recover from existing niggles
b) make running doubles a regular part of my training

Quantitative sub-goals:
1) 130/100 (2 doubles a week if I run every day, or 3 if I take a day off)
2) 800+ miles
3) ~20 workouts
4) sub-1:15 half marathon (goal race: New Bedford 3/15/2020)

Despite some strong marathon cycles with plenty of mileage, I've never actually done the base goal of 100/100 -- closest was around 95/100 in training for Baystate 2018, where I averaged 66 miles/week for 12 weeks and did a number of doubles. Hoping that emphasizing frequency first and volume second makes me a bit more resilient; I think I've responded well to shorter runs and more doubles in the past, but this challenge is the kick I need to go for it for real!
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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am i the only one trying to bank days during the week so I can drink beer and sleep-in (as much as my kids allow) on the weekend?????
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I’m targeting over 100 runs in the challenge this year as I’m trying to get back into shape after having a baby 11 weeks ago. I ran a 5k to see where I am today and ran 22 mins. I’m hoping to take another 2-3 mins off that by the end of the challenge and lose my last 10 lbs of baby weight.
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [maija] [ In reply to ]
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maija wrote:
I’m targeting over 100 runs in the challenge this year as I’m trying to get back into shape after having a baby 11 weeks ago. I ran a 5k to see where I am today and ran 22 mins. I’m hoping to take another 2-3 mins off that by the end of the challenge and lose my last 10 lbs of baby weight.

well shoot, if that's the way it works then i'm going to have a baby and follow your recovery plan! seriously, sounds great. i'll be watching your progress.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I've just got credit for a coaching session that I haven't counted in my own score. I ran at 4 pm for just over 30 mins. I then started a drills coaching session at 5pm, last than 30 mins after the other one ended. I have 10 counted when there should only be 9.
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [PhilipShambrook] [ In reply to ]
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You can delete individual sessions from the activities list.
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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I'm at 2/8 - if I run today I'll be at 3/8. This is why I don't set goals anymore, I'm always losing.
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I am 8 for 8 doing a lot of short runs and even on page 1 by frequency, duration and volume. Heading out on a biz trip to India+ Dubai tonight and plan to run 45-60 min daily as I will miss 4 days on the 100 hours of swimming in 100 days program that I am on in parallel to all this running silliness. Whose idea was all this running anyway when there are perfectly good pools to not pound my body at??? I could even lose some swimmer baby fat if all this running keeps going and then my swim will suck because I won't have all that floatation from my built in layer of bioprene (TM).
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Re: Official 13th Annual 2019/2020 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
I am 8 for 8 doing a lot of short runs and even on page 1 by frequency, duration and volume. Heading out on a biz trip to India+ Dubai tonight and plan to run 45-60 min daily as I will miss 4 days on the 100 hours of swimming in 100 days program that I am on in parallel to all this running silliness. Whose idea was all this running anyway when there are perfectly good pools to not pound my body at??? I could even lose some swimmer baby fat if all this running keeps going and then my swim will suck because I won't have all that floatation from my built in layer of bioprene (TM).

then it's a damned good thing we've got this 100/100 ongoing now! for you uberswimmers. you ought to look at the fam video i stuck up in another thread. the coolest thing that nobody knows about. (or knew about prior.)

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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