The Frenchman JUST got his citizenship. Maybe if he resided in Germany for at least 20 years. But this is just one example

I would say that after re-watching Icarus 4 things really jumped out.

1. Rodchenkov agreeing to help Fogel in his harebrained experiment. That's the part I find hardest to believe. He is taking a 'uge risk here, and for what? It's not like Coppolla or Nolan asked him to help them prove that doping can be done without being caught.
2. Rodchenkov travelling to LA to collect urine samples. I have no idea how he would swing it. It is really hard for Russians to get a travel visa at the moment, and the dude just pops in and out. Bizarre.
3. Rodchenkov just flying out of Moscow after Fogel buys him a ticket - on an Aeroflot flight no less!!!! With all the heat coming from the state surveillance, he just takes off from Sheremetyevo - with nary a problem outside of the dramatized tarmac video. I mean - look, the dude is the key to the puzzle, the key witness to a world shattering scandal... and he is allowed to leave? Dafuq?

OK, a bonus doubt. He admits to having been sent to a psychiatric ward. For a Russian male, that's a huge taboo. More people would admit to having AIDS, etc than that. And for him to be put in a position of a massive importance after having spent time in "psyhushka"? That just does not happen. Not without something earth shattering taking place to save his ass and advance his career at the same time..

There are some other odd bits.

For example, in the initial Skype convo with Fogel, Rodchenkov's wife fawns over his dog in Russian. But when Rodchenkov's get let go from the lab, she briefly speaks to Fogel on skype and there she speaks a decent English. Any Russian fluent in English would show it off immediately - and there is a zero chance she would have made herself look like a bumpkin in the inital skype convo.

Then there is his sister. She is a decorated runner, and by all accounts was the anabolic connection that he mentioned in the bit about cutting over the Portugalov's team over from the Chinese supply of steroids to his hookup. That in itself could carry a 10-15 drug trafficking charge, Yet she gets off without any trouble, but her bro gets to do time in a psychiatric ward. This is such a strange story.

I really don't know what to make of this. I went for a long run today, and had tried to fit so many different tinfoil theories. Nothing makes sense. The dude seems to be a rotten, corrupt machine cog, doing his job to enable this massive conspiracy to dope. But then he has a mind change, and boom - fesses up.

The only explanation I have is that he is a part of some sort of a plot meant to unseat Mutko by his rival FSBers. I dunno. The whole thing stinks, and makes no sense.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

ok, just had my first chance to sit down to some Olympics. I am watching the womens XC relay. this is some #$@#$@#%% stuff. Russia, Russia, Russia. there is no penalty. there is no suspension. to the barely aware viewer (me), I have no idea about the Russian "ban".

pathetic

fyi, film was made prior to trump taking the high chair, when from there on a bigger microscope came over the russians

What is your point?

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Just saw this thread. My wife and I were complaining to each other about this (Hey, we actually agreed with each other on something....it generally takes someone like Vlad Putin for us to agree on something without taking sides...).

I would have preferred to see, "Independent Athletes"

you are stating his difficulty to get a visa, fly a russian airline here, etc ,etc. perhaps there are more to the details than explained in the movie. he could have flown aeroflot to nearby country and then used a cross ocean flight to get here, prior to trump tourist visas werent too difficult to obtain.

Just to clarify, why do you find the suffix -stani offensive?

Serious question. Is there something bad about countries that end in 'stan' such that "stani" is offensive...I don't have a dog in this fight being from Canada and served in the Royal Canadian Air Force for 13 years including during Gulf War1 (fortunately, only my software flew out of the Canadian forward operating base in Doha Qatar, I did not have to deploy).

I kind of find it offensive that you're using your grandfather's service to talk down countries than end in "stan"...lots of high class Canadians came from those countries, so let's play cool if you want people to respect our country, then play good with others.

The tourist visas were a bitch to get during the late Obama years, at least for the Russians. Part of it was in retaliation for the Crimea annexation.

If he was truly under the state surveillance he would have been likely disallowed to travel outside of the country. They would have simply started some sort of an administrative investigation and had him sign a paper agreeing not to travel. They did it with Navalny and a few others.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

It’s anLR thing referring to our country relative to our neighbors to the south as so far left to be kinda communist.

The way it’s used is usually pretty funny and light hearted.

I’ve never taken offence.

Cheers,
Maurice

Some theories on this:

>1. Rodchenkov agreeing to help Fogel in his harebrained experiment. That's the part I find hardest to believe. He is taking a 'uge risk here, and for what? It's not like Coppolla or Nolan asked him to help them prove that doping can be done without being caught.

The doping scandal theme isn't yet revealed, why not "help" and befriend a random American dude, thus making a random connection in the U.S., should he need to use it?

>2. Rodchenkov travelling to LA to collect urine samples. I have no idea how he would swing it. It is really hard for Russians to get a travel visa at the moment, and the dude just pops in and out. Bizarre.
He could have already had a valid visa? He could have given some of his connections a crate of bottles to get one? He could have been owed a favor? Also, the visa thing is quite odd sometimes - I see people randomly being able to get one without issues on occasion.

3. Rodchenkov just flying out of Moscow after Fogel buys him a ticket - on an Aeroflot flight no less!!!! With all the heat coming from the state surveillance, he just takes off from Sheremetyevo - with nary a problem outside of the dramatized tarmac video. I mean - look, the dude is the key to the puzzle, the key witness to a world shattering scandal... and he is allowed to leave? Dafuq?
> Yeah, weird, but maybe he just wasn't considered as important at the moment as the movie makes him out to be? (maybe Mutko didn't actually think he'll sell them out?).

OK, a bonus doubt. He admits to having been sent to a psychiatric ward. For a Russian male, that's a huge taboo. More people would admit to having AIDS, etc than that. And for him to be put in a position of a massive importance after having spent time in "psyhushka"? That just does not happen. Not without something earth shattering taking place to save his ass and advance his career at the same time..
> Sure, but you've seen the movie, you've seen him. I took this as if he were treated as a mad scientist who'd be grateful for a chance to live a 'normal' life again - they wanted to squeeze what they needed from him, but didn't quite think he had it enough in him to be revolting and exposing.

There are some other odd bits.

>Any Russian fluent in English would show it off immediately
Confused by what caused this comment, but either way, that is false:) The skype exchanges look pretty normal to me.

>The only explanation I have is that he is a part of some sort of a plot meant to unseat Mutko by his rival FSBers. I dunno. The whole thing stinks, and makes no sense.
Could be.

My point in responding is I admit the movie documents some weird scenes and stories, but having knowledge of what's going, how could it not be weird?

It’s Canada, not Canukistani. The term Canukistani is a reference to Afghanistan in a derogatory way. Think bombed out hell hole for terrorists. I’ve heard a lot of Americans refer to places they think of as sh*t holes with the suffix ‘stan’. This is the first time I’ve heard Canada talked about this way though. He wasn’t using this term as a complement. It went right over your head.

how is the OAR allowed to have a nordic relay. imagine if the US govt had a state sponsored, from the white house down, doping program for track & field sprinters, passing samples through a wall, only to be allowed to have a 4x100m relay in the very next olympics, the team called the olympic athletes from the USA.

i can only assume the russians have dirt on more than just politicians.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

The only thing more disgraceful than the Russians is the IOC for letting this happen. I was really hoping the United States would come back to beat Russia in hockey. I want to see Russia lose and lose big. They shouldn’t even be in Pyeongchang.

and NBC for treating russia as if it's a fully vested participant in the olympics.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

First of all, I've been around ST for 18 years....lots of Americans on here joke around about Canada as Canuckistan. It's no big deal

Here are some images from countries ending in "stan"



Kyrgystan above.



Almaty, in Khazakstan



Sample of the route on the karakoram highway in Pakistan



Samarkhand Uzbekistan



Sadayeen Mtn, Afghanistan

I'm not seeing too much "shit hole" in these images, although ignorant people including yourself "in this instance" (I'll assume you're otherwise more knowledgeable about the world), may want to use the suffix in a negative connotation.

Just cause some bad things happen in a country does not make the entire place a shit hole. We have our share of shit hole spots here in Canada too, so better to not call out other countries generically.

I am surprised that there are any teams allowed, be it figure skating, nordic skiing, ice hockey etc etc. There should just be Olympic Independent athletes racing in individual sports. If a country is banned, there is no way they should be able to field a team sport.

I'm watching the women's nordic 10K relay on good old-fashioned over-the-air broadcast TV, so I get what NBC gives. This is a travesty that so much coverage is going to a sport where blood doping would give such a clear advantage. And of course, OAR are leading so far.

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DFL > DNF > DNS

i was just looking at gravel roads in kyrgystan and happened on this site, which i think is made of gold for you and me. assuming you're going to get into gravel biking which i assume you will.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I simply would appreciate if countries would be referred to by their real names, not by slang terms that I have seen used in a negative context (the reference being to Afghanistan, not other countries with ‘stan’ in their name).

He is clearly anti-immigration in terms of athletes. It’s xenophobic. If you want to support that type of thinking that’s on you.

It’s pretty straightforward no matter how much you try to twist it to fit your agenda.

Aaaaand an OAR has failed a doping test... who could've seen that one coming?!


http://www.bbc.co.uk/...er-olympics/43103451

You have to laugh really, because the IOC are like a slapstick comedy...

but, "The Olympic anthem will be played at any medal ceremonies they are involved in with no Russian flag or anthem." that'll show 'em.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I am not even an American, but this morning I am really irked that they are showing OAR in the medal tally ahead of the USA. I'd be livid if I was an American and I'm only an L1 Visa holder (OK now expired). They may as well retitle the group, ADBP = Athletes Doped By Putin!!!

Dev

They just wiped the floor with you in ice hockey. I don't blame you for starting this thread.

Ouch

https://www.nytimes.com/...r-krushelnytsky.html