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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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More like the whole thing was an attack on Putin's presidency before the March elections.

The whole system is rigged and not worth supporting. Countries taking entire podiums in some sports for years. Doping is rampant across the board - Russia was just sloppy enough and made big enough enemies to be dragged into the sunlight.

The problem is that we have made wars too expensive to fight for most part these days. The countries still want to wage wars since it is good for the economy, so they instead treat major sporting events as geopolitical conflicts.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I tend to have extreme points of view on most topics, and I agree that it is utterly ridiculous. They shouldn't be there, at all, under any flag or any name.

Trained your whole life? Sorry, you're out. Blame your own country. I don't care if you're in some sport that didn't/wouldn't supposedly dope, you're all under the flag that committed the wrong, you're out. This is a complete farce.

Of course, the way the Olympics is, they would probably still compete. I'm sure one of them has a cousin that once visited a country which would probably qualify them. I'm too old for the U.S. Ski team, but since my wife is Colombian, maybe I'll go compete for them in 2020.

I talk to myself because mine are the only answers I'll accept - George Carlin
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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This one also irks me. I get not wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and penalize athletes who have not been caught or under suspicion of doping... That said, you need to penalize the country appropriately because of the systematized approach to defrauding the olympic enterprise... That being said, all they've done is dress the russians, in latvian colors and called them OARs. For sure they should be out of the big team events (allowing a hockey team is a joke in this circumstance...). Individual athletes who are subjected to extensive testing could be allowed, but the idea of OAR is ludicrous... They should be listed as independent. Their country or "team" should not show up in the medal rankings... It should just be their own result (which they achieved in spite of their nations unwillingness to play fair).

The biggest risk of the OAR label, is that it sounds like the olympics are endorsing this (which i get that they are in a way...), and then what do you say when one of the OAR's inevitably gets popped for a failed test during the games...
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Re: OAR [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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alex_korr wrote:
Doping is rampant across the board - Russia was just sloppy enough and made big enough enemies to be dragged into the sunlight.

no. what you're writing is not true. other countries did not - as a national policy - set up a doping scheme as russia did. host countries did not build olympic facilities with secret accesses for passing samples through walls. conflating russia with the "everybody does it" argument is wildly misleading and defeatist.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
alex_korr wrote:
Doping is rampant across the board - Russia was just sloppy enough and made big enough enemies to be dragged into the sunlight.


no. what you're writing is not true. other countries did not - as a national policy - set up a doping scheme as russia did. host countries did not build olympic facilities with secret accesses for passing samples through walls. conflating russia with the "everybody does it" argument is wildly misleading and defeatist.

2x

Based on the reports, it wasn't sloppy either. It sounds like it got too big and the evidence was so big that IOC couldn't sweep it under the rug. It was systematic, and complex, every athlete was involved whether they liked it or not. If an athlete wasn't performing well, the athlete was failed by the agency to show the agency was doing its job.

No other doping case today had officials unexpectedly die or go into hiding in fear of assassination attempts.
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm more pissed that events like board-cross, halfpipe, short track, and mogul/aerial skiing have become legitimized as sport, through the gratuitous commercialization of the Olympics.

Give me break -- these are not real sports. I miss the days when REAL winter sport captured our attention as high stakes proxy-war with the Soviet bloc countries.

The crap on TV now is a joke. Is there anything more boring than watching snowboard slalom? (And get the hell off my lawn!)
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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So 39 Russian Athletes protested their lifetime bans from the Sochi investigation at CAS. CAS completely exonerated 28 of them. No ban from sports, whatsoever, all previous results reinstated. 0 lifetime bans were upheld.

The remaining 11 had their lifetime bans reduced to only a ban from participating in the 2018 Olympics.

https://www.theguardian.com/...-for-sport-athletics

IOC said that they would still try to prevent any of the 28 athletes who had their bans totally overturned by CAS from participating this year by not issuing invitations to them, but it appears that somewhere around 8 of them are actually competing anyway, from what I can tell.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: OAR [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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spookini wrote:
I'm more pissed that events like board-cross, halfpipe, short track, and mogul/aerial skiing have become legitimized as sport, through the gratuitous commercialization of the Olympics.

Give me break -- these are not real sports. I miss the days when REAL winter sport captured our attention as high stakes proxy-war with the Soviet bloc countries.

The crap on TV now is a joke. Is there anything more boring than watching snowboard slalom? (And get the hell off my lawn!)

But 5 versions of ice sledding are ok?
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Re: OAR [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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If mogul skiing (not exactly new anymore), and snowboarding of any kind, short track speedskating are not real sports, what are? Do you argue that these sports do not require enough skill? It is not unusual for bobsledders to win Olympic medals just a few months after their introduction to the sport..... How many years of training does it take to win a medal in super pipe? Moguls?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Your assertions (an organized state program, a national policy, etc) are based on accusations coming more or less from a single person (Dr. Grigory Rodchenkov). Full disclosure - I was born and raised in the USSR. My impression of him - based on what I have seen in the Icarus documentary - was that he is eccentric at best and unhinged/nuts at worst. This is based on the cultural cues that are completely imperceptible to the non-Russians. I can enumerate them if you wish. My gut tells me that this is a person likely to embellish and do things to attract attention.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: OAR [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
If mogul skiing (not exactly new anymore), and snowboarding of any kind, short track speedskating are not real sports, what are? Do you argue that these sports do not require enough skill? It is not unusual for bobsledders to win Olympic medals just a few months after their introduction to the sport..... How many years of training does it take to win a medal in super pipe? Moguls?

I can’t find any sports that have been removed... so unless I’m missing something all his “real sports” are still there. So it sounds like he just doesn’t know how to use a TV to watch what he wants.
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Re: OAR [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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alex_korr wrote:
Your assertions (an organized state program, a national policy, etc) are based on accusations coming more or less from a single person (Dr. Grigory Rodchenkov). Full disclosure - I was born and raised in the USSR. My impression of him - based on what I have seen in the Icarus documentary - was that he is eccentric at best and unhinged/nuts at worst. This is based on the cultural cues that are completely imperceptible to the non-Russians. I can enumerate them if you wish. My gut tells me that this is a person likely to embellish and do things to attract attention.

that's pretty interesting. what you're saying is that the entire mclaren report is based on a fraud, and that both rodchenkov (who putin loved before he hated) and the stepanovs (if that's the proper convention for a couple) are all lying.

i find it more credible to trust the mclaren investigators than to dismiss them, but, i wasn't there! i also find, based on the totality of russia's state behavior, the likelihood of the charges very credible, and the state's denial very much not credible.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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My wife is getting sick of me complaining about this exact thing. I find myself cheering for anyone to beat the OAR athlete. Here I am screaming at the TV calling some poor curler or ice skater a druggie and a cheat.
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Re: OAR [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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Even if the doctor and the athletes that broke the story are all "eccentric", it's hard to believe that they chose to declare to the world that they were part of an Olympic sports cheating plan in which they were doped or administered drugs to athletes essentially against their will at the direction of the Russian Government when it was not true. They want to make themselves assignation targets of Vladimir Putin in exchange for.... Losing their careers, homes and families?

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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x 2

And just this morning I read that the 'OAR' Luge athletes are upset that they seem to be picked on by the other teams !

It always seems to be 'its not our fault' it is the rest of the World against us.

db
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Re: OAR [spookini] [ In reply to ]
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spookini wrote:
I'm more pissed that events like board-cross, halfpipe, short track, and mogul/aerial skiing have become legitimized as sport, through the gratuitous commercialization of the Olympics.

Give me break -- these are not real sports. I miss the days when REAL winter sport captured our attention as high stakes proxy-war with the Soviet bloc countries.

The crap on TV now is a joke. Is there anything more boring than watching snowboard slalom? (And get the hell off my lawn!)
You'd prefer ice dancing?
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Re: OAR [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
Even if the doctor and the athletes that broke the story are all "eccentric", it's hard to believe that they chose to declare to the world that they were part of an Olympic sports cheating plan in which they were doped or administered drugs to athletes essentially against their will at the direction of the Russian Government when it was not true. They want to make themselves assignation targets of Vladimir Putin in exchange for.... Losing their careers, homes and families?

x 1 million

it seems so obvious
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Re: OAR [Dbeitel] [ In reply to ]
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You should have seen the comments I got when I posted a comment on Yulia Efimova's instagram(famous russian swimmer in case you dont know). Her post was something about being sad about Russia being excluded from the games. My comment centered around the doping officials that died under mysterious circumstances and how their families were probably even sadder. The comment never got deleted either but I got a bunch of Russian bitches telling me to fuck off hahahhaha.
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Re: OAR [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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Gonefishin5555 wrote:
You should have seen the comments I got when I posted a comment on Yulia Efimova's instagram(famous russian swimmer doper in case you dont know)..

FIFY
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
who putin loved....

"whom Putin loved...". "Whom." Can we at least get the important things right?

(Is it pink for sarcasm? I've been away a long time. I don't recall.)


----
Michael
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Re: OAR [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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alex_korr wrote:
This is based on the cultural cues that are completely imperceptible to the non-Russians. I can enumerate them if you wish.

I would be interested to learn from you if you're willing to share more.

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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All of this - typical backroom corruption at international backslapping organizations.

Additionally - why has the world not pulled the freaking World Cup from them!? Russia cheats their way through one major international event and then gets to host the most lucrative one there is?

" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I thought the idea was that athletes who could demonstrate that they were consistently training or competing in a trusted testing pool we're allowed in, and the PAR was the compromise to get them there.
if I have a Russian passport but am, say, on a scholarship in t the USA and do all my training, competing, and testing there, why should i be considered dirtier than any other us-based athlete?

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: OAR [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Far too much Russia hating going on in the world at the moment.

Drugs in sport a problem in every country - it is a problem for world sport.

...every drug cheat should be heavily penalised, but banning clean athletes as collateral damage of banning whole countries is a disaster.

Just imagine yourself being a clean athlete who trained all his life to reach this peak and to qualify for the Olympics - only to be told weeks before the event he/she dreamed of for 20 years that you can't compete due to some arbitary ban on all athletes from your country driven by the wrongdoing of some faceless officials/trainers. It would be devastating for the individual - such approach cannot be supported by any rational person.
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Re: OAR [TriDevilDog] [ In reply to ]
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TriDevilDog wrote:
All of this - typical backroom corruption at international backslapping organizations.

Additionally - why has the world not pulled the freaking World Cup from them!? Russia cheats their way through one major international event and then gets to host the most lucrative one there is?

I think you answered that with your first sentence.

FIFA are much worse than the IOC in that regard and the whole situation around the 2018 and 2022 WCs was a complete farce from start-to-finish.
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