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Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one
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I guess you have likely read Dan's dinosaur-brain, er was that lizard-brain reason(s) for using Zwift. I think that five or ten years down the road that I will eventually use it, but am in no hurry.

Strava on the other hand will likely have to wait until the afterlife. My question is only directed toward the NON-USERS of Zwift & Strava.

Why don't you use Swift?

Why don't you use Strava?

Post-away. Then again if you DONT post, well, I get that too!

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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I am just not motivated to use either. When riding inside I ride rollers with a power meter and a loud radio. I haven't used my CT since last year as I find the rollers are so easy to hop on and go. I never got into group riding, my outdoor stuff is almost always solo.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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I did try out Strava, but then I found that I really didn't care about having things on there. It wasn't motivating for me, and didn't really provide any extra benefit.

I'm not on Zwift yet, but that does appeal to me. Once I get a PM, I'll probably start Zwifting, but a PM purchase is probably going to be a ways off yet. In the meantime, it's a dumb trainer with Golden Cheetah running on one laptop and Netflix or youtube workouts (courtesy of GTN or GCN) on the other.

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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Neither a smart trainer nor a PM is necessarily a prerequisite for enjoyable use of Zwift. Although I think some "dumb" trainers may not yield good data, others work very well using virtual power which only requires a speed sensor. For example if you have a KK Road Machine and a Garmin speed and cadence sensor, I'd say there's no reason to wait - go ahead with what you've already got. I've been using this setup multiple times a week for over 18 months now and I get very realistic, and most importantly, consistent data.

If your dumb trainer gives consistent and realistic data, you can use it for enjoyable training and racing. Most events won't allow you to core wins if your using virtual power but that doesn't matter for me. I'm racing for enjoyment and training not for online rankings. You won't have hill simulation or ERG mode but neither of those is critical. I doubt I'd use ERG mode if I did have it, though hill simulation might be nice.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
Neither a smart trainer nor a PM is necessarily a prerequisite for enjoyable use of Zwift. Although I think some "dumb" trainers may not yield good data, others work very well using virtual power which only requires a speed sensor. For example if you have a KK Road Machine and a Garmin speed and cadence sensor, I'd say there's no reason to wait - go ahead with what you've already got. I've been using this setup multiple times a week for over 18 months now and I get very realistic, and most importantly, consistent data.

If your dumb trainer gives consistent and realistic data, you can use it for enjoyable training and racing. Most events won't allow you to core wins if your using virtual power but that doesn't matter for me. I'm racing for enjoyment and training not for online rankings. You won't have hill simulation or ERG mode but neither of those is critical. I doubt I'd use ERG mode if I did have it, though hill simulation might be nice.

That's the problem. It ain't consistent, and I don't think it is realistic. GC has me working pretty hard at 180-200 "virtual" watts, but I'm pretty sure I can generate more power than that, although I have no way to verify.

____________________________________
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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I've tried both. Neither was really motivating, Strava gave me some privacy concerns (I'm slightly paranoid about stuff like that), and Zwift is too expensive.

That said, I just moved into the smart trainer world and am trying Rouvy, which I like so far, so not a complete luddite.

***
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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I don't use Strava because none of its features interest me. I have desktop power analysis software, I ride with the people I want to ride with and discuss their other rides with them, and I race so I know how I stack up against other people on various "segments". I think if I do ever use Strava it will be to discover riding routes in places I'm not as familiar with.

I don't use Zwift (yet) because I ride the trainer very little. Probably fewer than 20 times per year. There is reasonable bike infrastructure where I live, there are good training roads available, it's generally warm enough, and it rarely rains. For that limited amount, I can get an hour workout done with just music. But this also may change as I get older and drivers pay less and less attention to what they're doing. I can see a point where just getting on the trainer in my garage and doing a virtual ride with others will be as enjoyable as riding outside with all the hazards that entails, and the time it takes to get to/from "training" roads.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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Hydrosloth wrote:
I guess you have likely read Dan's dinosaur-brain...

Why don't you use Swift?

Why don't you use Strava?

doesn't this simply come down to your personality? I was a swimmer and I am an introvert. Introvert as in: I know that intervals are the best way to get better but sometimes I swim a 3000 straight so I can avoid making eye-contact with anyone by accident while on the wall for 10 seconds. So I don't use Swift because I prefer an enclave of one. I really appreciated Dan's write up; I knew I would be wasting my time looking into it.

I only use Strava because I like seeing what OTHERS are doing. I found chasing the leaders board *mildly* interesting. There is a KOM that I would like to get - One mile down Bunkerhill Road - because I run there several times per week. So it has some value to me.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
Hydrosloth wrote:
I guess you have likely read Dan's dinosaur-brain...

Why don't you use Swift?

Why don't you use Strava?


doesn't this simply come down to your personality? I was a swimmer and I am an introvert. Introvert as in: I know that intervals are the best way to get better but sometimes I swim a 3000 straight so I can avoid making eye-contact with anyone by accident while on the wall for 10 seconds. So I don't use Swift because I prefer an enclave of one. I really appreciated Dan's write up; I knew I would be wasting my time looking into it.

I only use Strava because I like seeing what OTHERS are doing. I found chasing the leaders board *mildly* interesting. There is a KOM that I would like to get - One mile down Bunkerhill Road - because I run there several times per week. So it has some value to me.
Bear in mind that social interaction on Zwift is completely optional.
I do a combination of solo workouts, group rides, races and unstructured solo sessions on Zwift. I occasionally message others during a group ride regarding pace, positioning or to thank a group leader for a job well done. During solo workouts, solo unstructured rides or races, I'm fairly unlikely to interact with anyone else or they with me. I'm riding around on a virtual route that's also being used by others. In that respect it's no different from riding outdoors, however, you can't accidentally make eye contact with other avatars so there's no risk of discomfort if that's something you want to avoid. There's no equivalent to passing a fellow cyclist on the road and wondering whether to say hello, give them a wave, or ignore them.....
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
ajthomas wrote:
Hydrosloth wrote:
I guess you have likely read Dan's dinosaur-brain...

Why don't you use Swift?

Why don't you use Strava?


doesn't this simply come down to your personality? I was a swimmer and I am an introvert. Introvert as in: I know that intervals are the best way to get better but sometimes I swim a 3000 straight so I can avoid making eye-contact with anyone by accident while on the wall for 10 seconds. So I don't use Swift because I prefer an enclave of one. I really appreciated Dan's write up; I knew I would be wasting my time looking into it.

I only use Strava because I like seeing what OTHERS are doing. I found chasing the leaders board *mildly* interesting. There is a KOM that I would like to get - One mile down Bunkerhill Road - because I run there several times per week. So it has some value to me.

Bear in mind that social interaction on Zwift is completely optional.
I do a combination of solo workouts, group rides, races and unstructured solo sessions on Zwift. I occasionally message others during a group ride regarding pace, positioning or to thank a group leader for a job well done. During solo workouts, solo unstructured rides or races, I'm fairly unlikely to interact with anyone else or they with me. I'm riding around on a virtual route that's also being used by others. In that respect it's no different from riding outdoors, however, you can't accidentally make eye contact with other avatars so there's no risk of discomfort if that's something you want to avoid. There's no equivalent to passing a fellow cyclist on the road and wondering whether to say hello, give them a wave, or ignore them.....

I can't wave to other cyclists? Well then, what's the point??

____________________________________
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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Zwift doesn't appeal to me at all. If I'm on the trainer, I'd much rather do structured intervals and binge watch Netflix (which can be done with TrainerRoad in the horizontal mode) than do structured intervals and watch a silly, little avatar of me riding around some fictitious location. I'd rather watch something and get sucked into a story line (albeit something light, that doesn't require my full attention) to help pass the time....same reason I don't just listen to music while knocking out intervals on the trainer. Zwift racing seems like a fun change of pace on occasion, but I don't think racing only is the best use of training time if you want to make gains.

I do use Strava, but really just for the "social media" aspect of it. I don't pay for the premium version when TrainingPeaks gives me everything I need.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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Don't use Strava - Isn't it just a data base where you can see what other people rode and you can see what they did?

Use Zwift a little. I almost dropped it until some-one told me how to turn off drafting. I really hated that option.

The social aspect of it it irrelevant to me. I do like the power bar at the bottom of the screen. I probably ride my CT courses 3 to 1 ratio to Zwift.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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You can, but noone is likely to notice
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
You can, but noone is likely to notice

So just like real life then ;-)

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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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I use Strava... I enjoy going after some KOMs from time to time.

Do not use Zwift, just not into it and I use PerfPro instead for my indoor workouts. Pretty indepth software, can do my coaches prescribe power workouts/intervals... it logs it... dumps results into Strava and Training Peaks. Just what I need and want.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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Why don't you use Swift? I ride indoors only a handful of times each year.

Why don't you use Strava? Race results are the only data I wish to regularly share online.

Will I ever use Swift? When I get to the point where I do most of my riding indoors, I plan to catch up on a lot of reading. :)
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Mar 14, 18 12:00
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:

I can't wave to other cyclists? Well then, what's the point??

You can wave at people on Zwift.

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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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No Zwift here.

It costs money I don't have, for one. If I were going to spend that money, it would be for Trainingpeaks or similar.

Next, I don't Zwift because the cheating makes the TdF in the Armstrong era look like a bunch of saints and nuns. Sure, it's not needles and blood bags. But, if I'm paying money to "race", c'mon. The workout potential is there, but if that's all, you're wasting some % of your money not utilizing the full package. I'd rather race in real life, and still lose.

Next, I thought they had more miles of routes than that. I researched it, and it's a good start, but damn. Why not pair up with some auto racing video games and put those miles into use somehow. Maybe pay them for utilizing their "engine" and database. Online car racing video games have been around forever. Shoot, pair up with Google to use their google maps road imaging to render to the gaming world. Shoot, a lot of it is 360deg views too!

Maybe Google should just leverage that into video games.

There's entire "worlds" out there instead of looping Watopia or London for the millionth time.

Personally as a potential customer, the route offerings are pretty weak. If they added some legitimate world tour stages or climbing, I'd probably buy into it.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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I agree again Mark. Race results are what I train for and the weekly pissin contest is of no interest to me. Funny that race day one is out alone and many have a hard time with that (drafting, etc). I suffer with TR a few times a week and know it has done a ton for my cycling, and results. As I stated before, I don't need to be that guy whose ego makes me show everyone how great I am.......as a triathlete I'm interested in the whole 3 events and only racing for and within myself. If one needs that ego stroke, there's Zwift and Strava....getting fast is doing the work with a good plan. Plus after just seeing Zwift a while ago the characters are not even realistic.....takes me back almost to the nintendo days. As a very visual person it does not come close to portraying reality....just my opinion, but I'm sure I'm the minority, and fine with that.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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No Zwift
No Strava
No Facebook
No Instagram
No Twitter
and I still have a checkbook...

Old and in the way-ay,
That's what I heard them say...
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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Hydrosloth wrote:
I guess you have likely read Dan's dinosaur-brain, er was that lizard-brain reason(s) for using Zwift. I think that five or ten years down the road that I will eventually use it, but am in no hurry.

Strava on the other hand will likely have to wait until the afterlife. My question is only directed toward the NON-USERS of Zwift & Strava.

Why don't you use Swift?

Why don't you use Strava?

Post-away. Then again if you DONT post, well, I get that too!


Well, I am a 'user' and I'm going to answer because I did not Zwift previously, but now do.

I've become a convert to actually liking the trainer, thanks to Zwift. I have been on Strava premium for years, to follow others and see what others are doing for bike training and I enjoy the feedback/social aspect of that. I still do 95% of my cycling solo-thanks to job and time constraints. I put my rides on strava for others to see and comment on-no more, no less.


Sadly, I always lose bike fitness over the winter months due to trainer hate. I just can't stand being on it for over an hour and the less frequent, the better. Life in NE is what it is, but it certainly cuts into outdoor riding with a lot of bad weather. It always takes months to regain that loss and after 5 years in the sport of triathlon now, I can see it has hurt me significantly and has held my progress back.

So Strava works for me for 2 reasons: seeing other bike workouts and connecting with them socially. I'm not a guy to hunts KOM's but I've attacked a few and wanted to show my Strava buddies that I can work hard on the bike. But I don't get any real training benefit from it at all.

Zwift, however, has opened my eyes this year as it has changed everything. The site itself has also changed significantly since I did the 'free' month trial for strava users 1 year ago. It is substantially better this year. I mean really a lot better. It is engaging to see the thousands of 'people' out cycling in the world of the day. Yes, there are too few options, but there's a lot of people out there, riding/training/racing, usually thousands at any one time.

And yes, there is now 3 'worlds' to go to and that is nice but still a bit limiting compared to what could be done ,but the fact is this company has embraced the fact that people like to race and do workouts. The cycling community and triathlon community go there, virtually every day. You can get immediate feedback on metrics like HR/power/cadence like TR and have visual stimulation with other PEOPLE who are out there cycling. It is pretty user friendly but still does have glitches and work to be done overall, IMO. But doing my workout hammering and looking at a line to hold power ie TR, well, that is just totally blah for me.

Because it is so much more visually stimulating and brings in both the competitive and social aspect, I have virtually biked all winter. I do my workouts on prescribed days, but it is easier to do 2x20 min at Sweet Spot during a virtual race, than hammering it out watching TV or a movie or a cycling CD. I can do my weekly SS and occasional vo2 max workouts that I would normally do, even if the weather is nasty outside-impossible to do in NE in the late fall/winter and early spring. This usually cuts out 4 months from the year. I don't have to wait for it to be light out or adjust my ride to 'safe' times of the day to avoid significant traffic.

And the result: Not only will I have no loss of bike fitness, I've raised my FTP. I'll be in the best cycling shape of my career this spring, thanks to Zwift.

A game. I am shocked by my confession but it is the truth. And I won't let anyone tell me that it's just virtual cycling when I've left considerable sweat on my floor for after a 60 minute 95% FTP workout/race. It's real cycling, done together in a virtual world, with real people.

Ride on>Let's Go!

Dale
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Google just now opened the maps api to the video games developers - so more realistic courses will probably be happening soon.

Next races on the schedule: TBD at the moment.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed on Zwift being a godsend for a certain type of person. Training outdoors is mindfulness meditation for me, and I am content with no stimulation beyond what is naturally provided. Indoors is separate story; four years of collegiate rowing have absolutely burned me out on pure pain cave flogging. I used to watch cycling races, but focusing on the peloton mutes the feedback my body is giving me, especially during quality workouts. Zwift bridges the gap between pain cave torture and the excitement of cycling races while keeping me in the feedback loop.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [vjohn] [ In reply to ]
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vjohn wrote:
I don't use Strava because none of its features interest me. I have desktop power analysis software, I ride with the people I want to ride with and discuss their other rides with them, and I race so I know how I stack up against other people on various "segments". I think if I do ever use Strava it will be to discover riding routes in places I'm not as familiar with.

I don't use Zwift (yet) because I ride the trainer very little. Probably fewer than 20 times per year. There is reasonable bike infrastructure where I live, there are good training roads available, it's generally warm enough, and it rarely rains. For that limited amount, I can get an hour workout done with just music. But this also may change as I get older and drivers pay less and less attention to what they're doing. I can see a point where just getting on the trainer in my garage and doing a virtual ride with others will be as enjoyable as riding outside with all the hazards that entails, and the time it takes to get to/from "training" roads.

have you tried ridewithgps for finding routes you're not familiar with? That seems to be the best IMO. easy to create routes in it as well and load them on to your garmin device.
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Re: Nor Zweft nor Stravah } Enclave of one [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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have tried Zwift off and on. it's never really stuck for me. Strava is okay. I have stuff synced to it. I keep meaning to turn on live segments on my garmin device.
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