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No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending!
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Seriously, does anyone know why and if they will put them back? I know it’s not a race but it’s definately added motivation.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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RallySavage wrote:
Seriously, does anyone know why and if they will put them back? I know it’s not a race but it’s definately added motivation.

Sure hope so. It is sad to see them go. Of course you can still see where you end up on Zwift Power. But year, the leader board/position is motivational for those of us that want to push it.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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Lot's of "reasons" being mentioned on today's ride, probably all guesses. But I also liked being able to pick off riders and advance as the race went on. I vote to bring them back!

I'm closer to the feathered end of the spear than the point.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [David_Tris] [ In reply to ]
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It’s pretty bad if they are removing features from paying members because they can’t figure out how to make the technology work.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly I thought it was more fun without the placings. Started near the back and rode hard until I found a group that I could ride with at a similar power and stayed with them. Kept my HR at 5-10 beats below threshold (always high indoors) and averaged 250W 3.3 w/kg. I could see maybe 30-40 riders ahead of me and was in a group of about 20. Enjoyed it.

What was weird was when I went to Zwift power afterwards and it showed me about halfway back in the finishers. Previous stages I had been always in the top 1/4 for slightly less power. Not sure if I encountered a very strong group or what. Not that it really matters. I found it to be more fun than chasing positions and kept me more in the game.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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Happy to answer what questions I can, but I will say that the sentiment here is not surprising given the general mentality (as much as it's possible to generalize) of the typical Slowtwitcher. However, in this particular case, the mentality of the typical Slowtwitcher - y'all are fairly competitive - was not at all universal. Ultimately, we made the decision to disable race results because the feedback we received indicated that - in total - people were confused by the presence of race results in an event which, in its description, explicitly states, "THIS IS NOT A RACE" having results.

To be clear, there were also some bugs related to the results, but it was more the general sense of frustration/confusion that we perceived that led us to disable race results for TdZ. We don't have any further changes planned for TdZ 2019, but this experience has certainly laid out some work for us in terms of how we set similar event series up in the future...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Happy to answer what questions I can, but I will say that the sentiment here is not surprising given the general mentality (as much as it's possible to generalize) of the typical Slowtwitcher. However, in this particular case, the mentality of the typical Slowtwitcher - y'all are fairly competitive - was not at all universal. Ultimately, we made the decision to disable race results because the feedback we received indicated that - in total - people were confused by the presence of race results in an event which, in its description, explicitly states, "THIS IS NOT A RACE" having results.

To be clear, there were also some bugs related to the results, but it was more the general sense of frustration/confusion that we perceived that led us to disable race results for TdZ. We don't have any further changes planned for TdZ 2019, but this experience has certainly laid out some work for us in terms of how we set similar event series up in the future...

This is what I was afraid of. The wussification of everything. God forbid the folks at the back know that they are slow. You do what you need to the satisfy your investors. Looks like I’ll be spending more time on TrainerRoad.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Happy to answer what questions I can, but I will say that the sentiment here is not surprising given the general mentality (as much as it's possible to generalize) of the typical Slowtwitcher. However, in this particular case, the mentality of the typical Slowtwitcher - y'all are fairly competitive - was not at all universal. Ultimately, we made the decision to disable race results because the feedback we received indicated that - in total - people were confused by the presence of race results in an event which, in its description, explicitly states, "THIS IS NOT A RACE" having results.

To be clear, there were also some bugs related to the results, but it was more the general sense of frustration/confusion that we perceived that led us to disable race results for TdZ. We don't have any further changes planned for TdZ 2019, but this experience has certainly laid out some work for us in terms of how we set similar event series up in the future...

I just sent my 80 year old mother in Florida a message letting her know that Zwift is for her! A perfect platform for her to keep in shape and exercise when it’s too hot outside.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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Bye Felecia
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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TDZ is what a rider makes it. Is a group ride not aloud to have a bragging rights mad dash to a city limits sign or a max effort to the top of a climb? It may not be a race for everyone - so they can relax and not worry about a list of finishers. For me stage 4 saw me put down power levels that I have not seen for years so ya it was a "race" from the gun with or without results. Since I was surrounded by others I'm guessing not everyone was taking it easy. Either way I plan to do the next 5 stages flat out. By the way thanks for a great event. This has been great motivation for a lot of people.

Ed Alyanak


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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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RallySavage wrote:
This is what I was afraid of. The wussification of everything. God forbid the folks at the back know that they are slow. You do what you need to the satisfy your investors. Looks like I’ll be spending more time on TrainerRoad.

Or, maybe it’s the deassholelification of an event which in its description, explicitly states, "THIS IS NOT A RACE".

Bye.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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RallySavage wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
Happy to answer what questions I can, but I will say that the sentiment here is not surprising given the general mentality (as much as it's possible to generalize) of the typical Slowtwitcher. However, in this particular case, the mentality of the typical Slowtwitcher - y'all are fairly competitive - was not at all universal. Ultimately, we made the decision to disable race results because the feedback we received indicated that - in total - people were confused by the presence of race results in an event which, in its description, explicitly states, "THIS IS NOT A RACE" having results.

To be clear, there were also some bugs related to the results, but it was more the general sense of frustration/confusion that we perceived that led us to disable race results for TdZ. We don't have any further changes planned for TdZ 2019, but this experience has certainly laid out some work for us in terms of how we set similar event series up in the future...

This is what I was afraid of. The wussification of everything. God forbid the folks at the back know that they are slow. You do what you need to the satisfy your investors. Looks like I’ll be spending more time on TrainerRoad.

Or you could join one of the dozens of ACTUAL races they have in zwift everyday?
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Happy to answer what questions I can, but I will say that the sentiment here is not surprising given the general mentality (as much as it's possible to generalize) of the typical Slowtwitcher. However, in this particular case, the mentality of the typical Slowtwitcher - y'all are fairly competitive - was not at all universal. Ultimately, we made the decision to disable race results because the feedback we received indicated that - in total - people were confused by the presence of race results in an event which, in its description, explicitly states, "THIS IS NOT A RACE" having results.

To be clear, there were also some bugs related to the results, but it was more the general sense of frustration/confusion that we perceived that led us to disable race results for TdZ. We don't have any further changes planned for TdZ 2019, but this experience has certainly laid out some work for us in terms of how we set similar event series up in the future...

So....maybe make it an option. Those that don't want to use it or see it, turn it off in the menu settings. For the rest, leave it on - everyone is satisfied.
I personally liked it as it gave me a sort of goal to keep myself in X position in the entire group. Not caring about a top finishing position in as far as so much as to keep in the same position for the entire ride....or if I loose150 positions on a long climb...looking to gain all that back on the flats/rollers. Now just kind of riding blind. I can live without it, but definitely preferred having positional readouts.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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If you want to race it, race it. Plenty of people do. Then go on to ZwiftPower and see how you placed. I don’t really see what the problem is.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Happy to answer what questions I can, but I will say that the sentiment here is not surprising given the general mentality (as much as it's possible to generalize) of the typical Slowtwitcher. However, in this particular case, the mentality of the typical Slowtwitcher - y'all are fairly competitive - was not at all universal. Ultimately, we made the decision to disable race results because the feedback we received indicated that - in total - people were confused by the presence of race results in an event which, in its description, explicitly states, "THIS IS NOT A RACE" having results.

To be clear, there were also some bugs related to the results, but it was more the general sense of frustration/confusion that we perceived that led us to disable race results for TdZ. We don't have any further changes planned for TdZ 2019, but this experience has certainly laid out some work for us in terms of how we set similar event series up in the future...

So where are you getting your "confusion/perception" from? If you watch the facebook Zwift groups, most people are very unhappy with this decision. As you can see here on slowtwitch, there is a lot of disappointed people. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but as a paying member of Zwift, I'd love to see all these people who wanted it removed. It makes a lot more sense to leave it up and those people who don't want to race don't. By removing the leader board the only people hurt are those that want to challenge themselves. Leaving it hurts no one.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [elf6c] [ In reply to ]
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elf6c wrote:
Bye Felecia

You win the internet for the day!!!!

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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RallySavage wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
Happy to answer what questions I can, but I will say that the sentiment here is not surprising given the general mentality (as much as it's possible to generalize) of the typical Slowtwitcher. However, in this particular case, the mentality of the typical Slowtwitcher - y'all are fairly competitive - was not at all universal. Ultimately, we made the decision to disable race results because the feedback we received indicated that - in total - people were confused by the presence of race results in an event which, in its description, explicitly states, "THIS IS NOT A RACE" having results.

To be clear, there were also some bugs related to the results, but it was more the general sense of frustration/confusion that we perceived that led us to disable race results for TdZ. We don't have any further changes planned for TdZ 2019, but this experience has certainly laid out some work for us in terms of how we set similar event series up in the future...

This is what I was afraid of. The wussification of everything. God forbid the folks at the back know that they are slow. You do what you need to the satisfy your investors. Looks like I’ll be spending more time on TrainerRoad.

Uhhm, that’s ridiculous. I’ve never seen a leader’s or polka dot jersey waiting for me after a group ride.

If you wanna race then grow a pair and enter real life races.

An Internet group ride is not a race, meaning there’s no results. In a real life hammer ride group there’s only temporary personal satisfaction in arriving first to something. Not a lit up billboard of stats.

It’s a bit narcissistic to demand everything in life have a clear cut victory salute for you.

Just imho. It’s a bit much.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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All of you complaining, do you have a heads up display in a real race that gives you your position? Get over it.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [marklemcd] [ In reply to ]
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marklemcd wrote:
All of you complaining, do you have a heads up display in a real race that gives you your position? Get over it.

I do think Zwift benefits from very clear distinctions between what's a race and what's a group ride. Both in real life and virtually, it's annoying to have people trying to tear groups to shreds on group rides by attacking (as opposed to people just naturally binning into groups of similar steady-state W/kg). Those who have an urge for competitive outlet (which is very often me) should self-select events transparently described as races.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
marklemcd wrote:
All of you complaining, do you have a heads up display in a real race that gives you your position? Get over it.


I do think Zwift benefits from very clear distinctions between what's a race and what's a group ride. Both in real life and virtually, it's annoying to have people trying to tear groups to shreds on group rides by attacking (as opposed to people just naturally binning into groups of similar steady-state W/kg). Those who have an urge for competitive outlet (which is very often me) should self-select events transparently described as races.

I appreciate groups clearly saying whether it is group/team work or if it is hammer-fest. "What's the protocol today?" Even on a hammer-fests it's not sanctioned, so it's just a way to try out things and have fun.

The whole leaderboard thing for Zwift almost sounds like a sit-on-sprinter in a hammerfest ride. Most people in a hammer ride are trying out a variety of race moves to see what happens. They're not trying to make it to the parking lot first.

We have a local hammer ride that people get pissy when the weight part of the w/kg and people's duration curve wears thin on hills and the group splits. It's a hill, we'll wait for you. Chill out. No reason for me to soft pedal a hill because I weight 40 lbs less.

Also, we call a truce some nights if weather is bad or the group is thin on strong guys/gals and just do a group ride. If someone does stupid stuff like riding up the center of the double paceline or doing a flyer off the front, that's just so stupid and rude.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, I agree - real-life group rides are best when there's a de-facto sheriff, and clear rules about when it's kosher to go, and when it's not. Some Zwift rides have that - ride leaders who communicate very well. Some with no leadership devolve into shitshows.

So I guess Zwift is a lot like real life.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I’m not about to cancel my zwift membership over it, but I missed the leaderboard. I generally don’t treat tdz events as a race, but I think the great thing about about these big events is that you can make them whatever you want and still have a nice group to ride with.

If I’m due for a rest day, I can just spin the legs in a slow group. If I’m due for a hard day, it can be like a race. Its not like a controlled group ride where anyone should care if you’re pushing the pace.

I like the leaderboard regardless of how I’m treating the ride. It’s one more thing that keeps me engaged in a virtual ride, even if I’m not concerned about my position.

I get the sentiment that zwift doesn’t want recreational riders to get discouraged, but I just think it does more harm than good to pull the leaderboard from these events.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Understand that there were technical issues and also that it is "not a race," but I'll offer my $.02...

I've completed all 4 stages so far, and have enjoyed the challenge of trying to keep up in relatively fast bunches in each of the stages. What was frustrating about Stage 4 was that the leaderboard that was previously present in other stages was all of a sudden not available. Had I ridden Stage 1 and had no leaderboard I would likely have chalked it up to the fact, as you mentioned, that the Tour de Zwift is not a race. But with thousands of people in an event, there is inevitably going to be some level of competition, even if on a more friendly level. The leaderboard was used in the first 3 stages, which made its presence throughout the event a reasonable expectation.

The reason I appreciated the leaderboard previously was that it is difficult (maybe impossible) to know where I was relative to the front. I'm not sure if it is due to the limitations of my computer (MacBook Pro or Alienware 15), my internet connection, or Zwift itself, but I can generally only see maybe 50-100 riders in front or behind me, both in-game and also on the companion app. So without a leaderboard that is telling me where I actually am, my in-game view looks like I'm not too far behind the front end of the field. On the first 3 stages I knew exactly where the field extended to up the road because the leaderboard told me. But on Stage 4 it was impossible to know how much further up the road the lead of the bunch extended, or if I was even in the front bunch when I hit the base of the final climb.

I realize that the Tour de Zwift is NOT a race. But it does seem very much like a fondo in the sense that, as others have mentioned, it is whatever each individual wants it to be (quite frankly aren't most Ironmans like this??). I've done the Etape du Tour in France a handful of times and the Tour de Zwift reminds me a lot of that. In the Etape there ARE results, and some people are VERY competitive, but the majority aren't. But no one questions that there is timing and results, because even if the only challenge one is facing is within themselves, the results help add a fun dimension to that.

My vote would certainly be to add back the in-game leaderboard as it made it a much more fun and challenging workout for me.


Geoffrey Nenninger
Last edited by: GDNenn: Jan 13, 19 18:35
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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I guess here's the thing I'm seeing, in general it seems like there are a lot of B, C, and D class racers that are doing the majority of the complaining about this because they just want to do the ride as a race and feel good about themselves because they see they're virtually beating a thousand people versus actually signing up for a race, virtual or otherwise, and getting their teeth kicked in.
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Re: No placements on Tour de Zwift Stage 4. WTF! My world is ending! [carlosflanders] [ In reply to ]
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What does your stats have anything to do with this thread. Such a backdoor brag! Well, kudos to you!

Jimmy S.
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