If you ever need to talk PM me. I've had 3 suicides on my mother's side of the family. My wife of 15 years who suffers from mental health and serious physical issues (heart failure) just left me (cheated and left) a little over a month ago. I've lived in a foreign country for 20 years and have no family within thousands of miles. I cannot visit them because the border is closed to non essential travel. If anyone has a reason to be low right now it is me, but I realize someone else always has it worse and I'm not going out a quitter like my other family members did. Fuck no! I will not make my family endure more pain and trauma. No way. Obviously, I don't know your situation, but we're all going through something right? Keep your head up, be strong and talk to someone if you need it. We do care ❤

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Hi Steve,
I have spent a lot of time with "the other Steve" in Penticton and he and Jean have always been such a rock for me (and others) over the tough years. As you know the sport at the sharp end of the field is a very small and sometime incestuous community which can be a lonely place to try and carve out a career.Living in Dave Bullocks "house of Iron" for so many summers gave me a rare opportunity to spend time with some of the best the sport has seen from the mid 90's through to Ironman's move out of Penticton and it wasn't all sunshine and roses for these people.
We know the concern some have for the welfare of Chuckie V and Tom Price,both Ironman Canada winners of whom have had a tough time away from the spotlight in a life after triathlon but one of the most difficult moments I had was sitting in our living room with Peter Reid in May 1999. We had just raced Ironman Oz which he had won and he was in town to be the celebrity athlete at the local duathlon in Penticton.At the awards ceremony I could tell he wasn't doing well and said we should go home so we walked back home and talked about everything from Lori to my Ultraman later that summer to the terrible abuse he got from the Aussie spectators in Forster earlier that month.Lori was in Toronto doing some media stuff and Peter just looked lost.It was so sad to see and I could never watch him race again without thinking about that day.

I started taking an antidepressant about nine months ago, after a long period of a really negative mindset that was worse than my usual moodiness. At 50, I wasn't exactly suicidal, but death seemed like the only way to solve some problems, and I was indifferent to whether I lived or died. As others have said above, a lot of athletes are prone to this darkness because we're wired differently. The recent HBO "Weight of Gold" documentary about Olympic athletes is especially good.

I regret waiting until middle age to start medication. I always had the fear that I would not be myself and that I would feel numb; that I would lose my interest in exercise or sex; that I would gain weight or get slow; and especially that if I lost the moodiness, I would lose my drive to compete and win. None of that happened. My weight is exactly the same. My speed and endurance are better because my better mood makes for better workouts: I've run PR's in the marathon and half since I started the meds. Sex is much better. I don't feel like a different person -- I just stay the person I've always been when I wasn't having a depressive episode. The highs remain, but the lows aren't remotely as low.

I've had some surprising positive side-effects -- the frequency of my migraines has been cut by about 75%, without any other medication. A chronic nerve-pain problem has improved dramatically, and I've discontinued the other medication I was taking for it. Migraines and nerve pain are both common off-label uses of Cymbalta (duloxetine), as it turns out. I had no idea at all going in, but my three chronic conditions -- depression, migraines, and chronic pain -- were all greatly improved by one pill. YMMV, but it's been something close to a miracle as far as I'm concerned.

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<The Dew Abides>

I had someone I knew very well that was incredibly depressed and was was also bi-polar. They wanted to go off their meds so badly and they really did not want to take them and didn't take them many times for periods of time. However every time they tried to do so they just spiraled out of control. Some people will never get it, I didn't get it until I knew this person, but some people need medication 100%. It just is that way. Nothing wrong with it. It doesn't make one any less of a person even though they often think it does just that.

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I worry most about CTE - I've had seven medically diagnosed and confirmed concussions [and who knows how many others that weren't], so I know what it's like to have a feeling that you're just a little out of step with your own self but not being able to properly put it into words that someone else might understand

I am more cognizant of how long it takes me to remember things that I used to know at the drop of a hat or struggling with "what's that other word for ... oh, yeah ... 'verbalize'" that's what I was looking for just then

I'm also more attuned [got it!] to my mood swings, which I've always had, but sometimes get WAY out of proportion for the situation

Then there's random anxiety; which this COVID thing ain't helping much

Running/exercise keeps my endorphins/serotonin where they should be, with a little extra Vitamin D [from both sunshine and gummies] and therapy for added reinforcement

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Why so many concussions?

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Going through life, head-first!!!

Also, no good helmets when I was a kid riding bikes & skateboards, so we just didn't wear them

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Considering I have been in your position for what seemed like forever but was luckily only 10 years, don’t give up. I took a few different Antidepressents that didn’t help. I found god, which helped for a bit, found an amazing gf and that didn’t help, nothing seemed to last. Triathlon was the thing that made the biggest difference but that too went away once I got desensitized. Felt like I was hopeless. It wasn’t until I went on a medication that wasn’t meant for Depression but that was a slim side potential that my whole life turned a corner. I finally did things for myself and found things that didn’t just distract me but fulfilled me..to an extent. I still do triathlon but I have my identity in so many things now that if something goes wrong, I have many things to fall back on.
I can safely say I haven’t had suicidal thoughts in years and am finally happy. Again I understand this means nothing but I hope you continue to find new things that feed your sole. You honestly have nothing to lose.

I worry most about CTE - I've had seven medically diagnosed and confirmed concussions [and who knows how many others that weren't], so I know what it's like to have a feeling that you're just a little out of step with your own self but not being able to properly put it into words that someone else might understand

I am more cognizant of how long it takes me to remember things that I used to know at the drop of a hat or struggling with "what's that other word for ... oh, yeah ... 'verbalize'" that's what I was looking for just then

I'm also more attuned [got it!] to my mood swings, which I've always had, but sometimes get WAY out of proportion for the situation

Then there's random anxiety; which this COVID thing ain't helping much

Running/exercise keeps my endorphins/serotonin where they should be, with a little extra Vitamin D [from both sunshine and gummies] and therapy for added reinforcement

____________

this is me to a T. Rugby 3 concussions. Partying a few more in my stupid youth. In winter I am really out of step. Last 3 winters we went to HAwaii and that really helped me tune up for winter 2021 should be interesting.

January I started for first time in my life some counselling. It has really helped me understand and tune into myself. 6 months later I went from monthly to "you know what, lets do tune ups quarterly" as I can intellectualize a lot better thoughts, feelings, outputs, inputs....its been good. As a friend said to me, "welcome to the first day of the rest of your life" when it came to that first anxious day going into a room and talking shit out.

I also find so many more friends now sharing together. Especially during COVID. so many people I didn't know seeing a therapist or medicating etc. and its liberating to talk to each other.

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@rhyspencer

That's great. From what my doc said, people often have to try several different medications before finding the one that works. A general practitioner won't necessarily have the expertise, so it can be a good idea to work with a specialist.

And I can relate to things that should help, or that helped for a while, then stopped helping. In fact, that was what prompted me to see a doctor -- it's worrisome to have a solid faith, a great wife, a good job, lots of exercise and interests, and to still feel indifferent to life.

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<The Dew Abides>

I didn't hurt that my therapist is a woman; that was my choice. I feel more at ease opening up to women for some reason?

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I'm sorry but it would be refreshing when someone drops out of a race the night before the race or in the middle of the race and when asked why, the athlete says "I'm sorry, I couldn't do this, I'm cheating, I took EPO..." Otherwise, they feel sorry and apologize BECAUSE they were caught.

Umm... this would never happen. I’m sure there are people who have dropped out before a race or mid race due to guilt but it would take a strong moral compass to turn yourself in as a doper without being caught and the kind of person who would do that is the unlikely to be the same person who cheats in the first place.
Don’t get me wrong, that would be refreshing but a doper with a high moral compass is a bit of a paradox.

Don’t get me wrong, that would be refreshing but a doper with a high moral compass is a bit of a paradox.


FWIW - In terms of her actions, what she said afterwards, and at the risk of reading too much into it all, this terrible and sad outcome, Nina, it would seem, did have higher morals that most dopers!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Very much agree. That's more of less why I say that confessing before a race as the threshold for "refreshing" takes away the fact that she still did something that no one else does. Also I should note that moral compass is dynamic and just because she had a lapse in judgement in one point of her life that doesn't mean its the way she conducted the rest of it. It's very sad to see a life lost and especially knowing it was probably pretty lonely many people judging her life by her worst mistake.

They should just be fined for doping results, not disqualified and banned. I suspect most of the time doping does nothing for an advantage. And when it does, it's marginal. Fine them and move on. It's only a recreational sport. Commercialization has made far too big a deal out of it.

I totally disagree. DQ/ban is fair and appropriate. This behavior is not in the spirit of the sport and all efforts should be made to stop it.
Sport is sport, but this is professional AND recreational.

And I do realize there is a toll taken when one is found guilty. Risks and benefits...we all have them...we all weigh what we want to do and how to live our lives. Commercialization has little to do with it.

And doping does nothing for an advantage-OMG, how naive a statement is that!

I would agree with you if....

they did not engage in discriminatory practices. TUE's, promote discrimination. In competitive sports, we want people to be their natural selves - which means no banned substances whatsoever. If any athlete is allowed a TUE, all athletes should be entitled to that TUE. But they are not...

Therefore, since discrimination is allowed, I am for winning...not matter how its done. The 2016 Olympics was a surprise to me, to find out we had tennis players on all kinds of steroids and drugs for some fantasy condition called attention deficit disorder. I am not meaning to call out tennis players in particular but, they are also considered athletes. And I simply don't believe in allowing some athletes to have an advantage. Hence my position. You play, you should play just like you fight... to win.

Fantasy condition?

What I think Neal means is the script was written under the illusion of a medical condition. The athlete may or may not have had ADD.

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You imply therewith:
-Either all of the people with a TUE do not really need that medication.
-Or if they need the medication they should not be allowed to do sports competitively.

The first possibke implication is just untrue to my point of view.
The second possibke implication might be your opinion but not mine.

I often wondered if doping should just be ignored, but then I think back at the East German state sponsored doping and the willingness to sacrifice athletes at any cost. The problem with doping is its an ever increasing spiral, look at the lengths people and programs have gone to to be the best at doping. Doping isn’t like alcoholism, it is something an individual can just stop. So I’ve gone 180 on my initial opinion and believe in strong penalties for both the individual, coach, and program. No pretending or turning a blind eye.

Wow - both pro-doping and you deny that ADHD exists.

Do you race in a Qanon kit and believe Bill Gates created the coronavirus?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I've treated severely depressed people for most of my adult life. Didn't truly understand how it feels until I had a profound period of depression myself. Since then sort of dysthymic much of the time. No animus to whoever is encouraging whomever to get help and not discouraging anyone to get help either. Just not something one can explain.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Back to Nina....she overcame the challenges of everyone publicly hating her to get back to racing triathlon, which is something she did as an outlet of exercise after retiring from being an elite swimmer in Germany in her youth and becoming a "working adult". She had the engine and went from "fun triathlon" to winning everything really quickly to contending for Kona.

When she first got into triathlon, it was without the pressure of swimming. Michael Phelps has talked about it openly now. Then suddenly she was winning and contending for Kona and back on the exact same treadmill from her swimmer days...then busted, then back in triathlon, but wanting to succeed, but the times I met her in St. Croix she seemed at piece with also doing sport for enjoyment like the rest of us....she no longer needed to be best in the world and was to old for that.

But from the outside, those who treated her well at races, I believe she found that comforting based on my brief interactions with her. I believe those that gave her forgiveness and compassion helped her, and being able to suceed with no dope gave her personal comfort, because she probably never let go of the desire to succeed that was driven in by coaches as a teen age swimmer.

No with Covid19, and no social circle that comes with racing and training in groups, I wonder how much that drove her back into the dark zone that she spoke about when reading about Marco Pantani dying from suicide on a drug overdose?

For all of us with our social circles largely cut off, and online not replacing it, how much does our current situation hurt....these are disasters not attributed to the impact of isolation that comes with society in the last 6 months.

RIP Nina, we'll all have a chance to do some St. Croix hills or dope-less runs down Alii drive when we join you too where you are now.