equipment choice = correct behavior... i don't think so unless it is a result of the local roadies refuse to help you 'cause you don't have drops. If that is the case, find a differnent group to ride with.

This does not make any sense - these are two completely separate issues.

It has everything to do with control and stability. No way you can learn that off the bat from a tri-bike.

I sorry but I disagree with the logic, learning to ride in a straight line, single or double pace line, in a big group or small, on the left or right has nothing to do with the bike. Its about learning to ride a bike safely whether its a tri bike, road bike, beach cruiser, etc. I was very fortunate to have joined a tri club that insisted on learn to ride clinics at the beginning of the season for all new club members conducted by credited bike coaches. In fact, one of the local weekend road rides (99% roadies) rconduct themselves with greater disregard to road rules than any tri group ride I have ever seen.

A road bike might help a newbie (new to riding) learn to ride more comfortably in a large or even small group but the rules of the road and of tri racing have nothing to do with the bike itself. By the way I started out with a road bike, and recently got a P2K also, but I dont see anything wrong with starting with a tri bike sometimes I wished I had.

Furthermore, the inability to ride straight, the disregard (or ignorance) of road rules, rules of pack riding and disregard for race rules are four different things which may or may not be connected at some level. For instance I have a hell of a time riding straight on my road bike in aero bars, I ride straighter on the P2 in aero bars. I am fine on my hoods and drops on the road bike!

As regards pack riding basics and rules, I am not sure if that is required for tris, but they sure help your handling skills of that I dont dispute, however I am pretty sure that if I can ride a tri bike in a pack of 4 (on my cowhorns) and not cause any accidents I should be good for a non draft legal race. Then again on second thoughts I migth be a hazard in aero bars as I have not trained enough in them to be comfortabe. In fact I advocate doing a fair amount of race prep sans group, just solo into the wind getting use to the aerobars.

Now as regards the disregard for race rules such as riding on right pass on left, that is just not paying attention or deliberate disregard to rules. No amount of traning can change that (see my comment above about the local roadie group)

There are many factors to bad riding skills in a race: lack of knowledge, lack of training, lack of experience, lack of fitness to race, and deliberate disregard of the race rules.

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Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

In my view, not riding in a group often enough was the problem with many of the riders @ St. A's. You could tell who these people were. They would actually take 90 deg turns in the aero!!

How can you say someone is ready to race in a triathlon with over 2000 participants when the largest group they ever trained in was 3 people (or 1, themselves)?

The week before the race, every "experienced" tri-biker joined in the roadie ride because it was the same course as St. A's. These people were athletic, strong, and obviously been riding their tri bike for years. They even brought their discs. They couldn't turn for sh*t! I knew a week before St. A's the bike was going to be bad just from the amount of people who came out the week before.

In my view, not riding in a group often enough was the problem with many of the riders @ St. A's. You could tell who these people were. They would actually take 90 deg turns in the aero!!

If I was riding in a group I would never ride in aerobars. Maybe some of them migth be better of riding solo in aerobars for long periods so they dont fidgit etc when they are in their bars.

How can you say someone is ready to race in a triathlon with over 2000 participants when the largest group they ever trained in was 3 people (or 1, themselves)?

I am not familiar with St A's but is it a draft legal race? I am not trying to be clever or score points, you basic premise is sound, but riding straight ahead can be achieved without ever riding in a big pack. Another issue is if big packs form on the course that race is too big for that course or it is not well marshalled or not well organised.

. They couldn't turn for sh*t! I

Again I would not disagree with you as a) I was not there, b) if a course had many turns I would consider a road bike. You may have a different experience but my P2 does not handle like my Trek road bike, I would not take my P2 to this evening's crit even if I was allowed to. it does not handle as well in sharp turns and does not have the out of saddle acclerations that are required for a crit.

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Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

Funny how hot people are getting about this topic.

I agree with Tri Rabbi, but for different reasons. A regular road bike handles better, is more stable and puts a neophyte rider in an overall body position on the bike that promotes greater safety and awareness while on the road.

Tri bars are great for getting aero and time trialing, but lousy for handling and keeping your head up and aware. They are an attractive nusiance for new riders, many of whom are hunkered on the bars in ALL situations, be it drafting in a group ride, or climbing uphill at 8 mph.

A road bike is more fun to ride day-in, day out. It climbs better, corners better, and does just about everything better than a tri bike, besides going on long solo tempo and time trial training rides and races.

Think of a road bike as a Porsche and a tri bike as a dragster. Which would you rather drive on the street with other cars? In my estimation, the majority of new triathletes would notice no depreciable difference in speed riding clip on bars on a good road frame. Especially on hilly courses.

Road bikes are more welcome on group rides. Why does this matter? Because to Rabbi's point, this is (or should be) the classroom for new riders. It teaches all the ancillary skills you'll never know riding by yourself or in a triathlon. Drafting, paceline work, city limit sprinting, holding your line through corners, calling out obstacles. While I'm not saying that drafting in a race is acceptable, drafting and riding in a group teaches you ride at a faster pace, more safely. Something many new triathletes need desperately to learn.

A tri bike will make you faster on race day, but day-in, day-out, a road bike will make you a better rider.

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No sidewindin bushwackin, hornswaglin, cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter!

we are not that far apart but I disagree in one aspect, riding a road bike in a big group then strapping on a pair of aerobars for the race and not having trained specifically with them is the cause of some of the bad riding skills you see at races. I have been there myself, everytime I reach for a drink on my road bike in full aerobars I wobble, which may be a function of bad fit or poor handling maybe both.

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Simple Simon
Where's the Fried Chicken??

My point is this: with a road bike you can learn to race with all the advantages of control and stability. When someone is experienced to know the rules of the road, then they can become efficient on a tri configuration.

What I've learned from the roadies, I believe, is to train and race safe with others. I dont think I could have learned that from coming right out of the nest with P2k.