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New shaped titanium bike frame
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If you like titanium bikes then you should love the look of this one in the article.

https://cyclingtips.com/...ke-bossis-strada-ss/
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [hercules] [ In reply to ]
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I saw that. Beautiful bike.
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [hercules] [ In reply to ]
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Smooth cleaned-up joints around the headtube to look like a construction method other than what the bike actually uses, paired with raw welding artifacts around the bottom bracket. The deliciously cynical Schwinn Varsity aesthetic!
Last edited by: HTupolev: Aug 8, 20 14:38
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [hercules] [ In reply to ]
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gorgeous bike, but I will say that my heart sank when I saw the 14.5k AUD ( >10kUSD) price tag for the complete bike.
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [Zissou] [ In reply to ]
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A unique hand made frame from Australia for $14.5K bike compared to a mass produced frame from Taiwan for $18K bike seems like a bargain to me in comparison...

https://cyclingtips.com/...w-the-venge-is-dead/
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [hercules] [ In reply to ]
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I was wondering when or if titanium bike manufacturers were going to start making bikes like this. It is a bit more than my budget allows but based on just appearance alone it would have definitely been high on my list of bikes all things considering. It's only a matter of time before someone starts incorporating more aerodynamics into Ti bikes to be as aerodynamic as modern day carbon bikes, particularly in the seat post area if it isn't cost prohibitive

The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [Slug] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a Cannondale fanboy and always have been. I am trying to defy going to disc but if I did choose to upgrade from the last HiMod Evo I would get one of these.

https://www.cannondale.com/...%40msrp%20descending

The shape isn't that indifferent much like a Tarmac or a lot of modern frames. The more I look at especially being an exotic Australian frame the more I want one...
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [hercules] [ In reply to ]
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What are the benefits of titanium as a frame material?
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [rosshm] [ In reply to ]
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rosshm wrote:
What are the benefits of titanium as a frame material?

All the benefits of steel at a much lighter weight.

Rust/corrosion resistance
Virtually unbreakable
Easily welded with a very reliable repair area if it does break
Nostalgia for frames of the past
Bling factor
Not plastic- sorry had to get a dig in against carbon, aka douchbags gold ๐Ÿ˜€
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [talking head] [ In reply to ]
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talking head wrote:
rosshm wrote:
What are the benefits of titanium as a frame material?


All the benefits of steel at a much lighter weight.

Rust/corrosion resistance
Virtually unbreakable
Easily welded with a very reliable repair area if it does break
Nostalgia for frames of the past
Bling factor
Not plastic- sorry had to get a dig in against carbon, aka douchbags gold ๐Ÿ˜€

My 25 year old Serotta Legend Ti would agree with these points.

For the frame in this thread, what is the point of the dropped seat stays?

----------------------------------
"i disagree with your analysis [or judgment], nevertheless you have the responsibility of moderating this board so i honor your authority to make the moderating decisions."
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [talking head] [ In reply to ]
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talking head wrote:
rosshm wrote:
What are the benefits of titanium as a frame material?


All the benefits of steel at a much lighter weight.

Rust/corrosion resistance
Virtually unbreakable
Easily welded with a very reliable repair area if it does break
Nostalgia for frames of the past
Bling factor
Not plastic- sorry had to get a dig in against carbon, aka douchbags gold ๐Ÿ˜€

Needed to add a pic of this "not plastic bike" in this thread.


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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [talking head] [ In reply to ]
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talking head wrote:
rosshm wrote:
What are the benefits of titanium as a frame material?


All the benefits of steel at a much lighter weight.

Rust/corrosion resistance
Virtually unbreakable
Easily welded with a very reliable repair area if it does break
Nostalgia for frames of the past
Bling factor
Not plastic- sorry had to get a dig in against carbon, aka douchbags gold ๐Ÿ˜€

Benefits of steel? Like flexy, heavy, and corrodes? The thing I like about steel is you can use skinny tubes, and you lose that benefit with Ti.

I'm with you on "not plastic", and it is corrosion resistant (and so is carbon). But...

Ti is definitely breakable, and moreso dentable.
It's substantially heavier than carbon... 500g+.
This frame is not "nostalgic" since they are trying to mimic modern shapes.
Bling? Well, it's different under the paint.
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [rosshm] [ In reply to ]
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rosshm wrote:
What are the benefits of titanium as a frame material?

For me personally, I prefer the feel of a ti bike over carbon, especially on longer rides. I also feel more comfortable taking ti frames on airplanes because they seem a bit less fragile.
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [hercules] [ In reply to ]
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Nice bike, but they shouldn't have painted it.
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
talking head wrote:
rosshm wrote:
What are the benefits of titanium as a frame material?


All the benefits of steel at a much lighter weight.

Rust/corrosion resistance
Virtually unbreakable
Easily welded with a very reliable repair area if it does break
Nostalgia for frames of the past
Bling factor
Not plastic- sorry had to get a dig in against carbon, aka douchbags gold ๐Ÿ˜€

Benefits of steel? Like flexy, heavy, and corrodes? The thing I like about steel is you can use skinny tubes, and you lose that benefit with Ti.

I'm with you on "not plastic", and it is corrosion resistant (and so is carbon). But...

Ti is definitely breakable, and moreso dentable.
It's substantially heavier than carbon... 500g+.
This frame is not "nostalgic" since they are trying to mimic modern shapes.
Bling? Well, it's different under the paint.


Absolutely all true, but ti will never assplode underneath you into a thousand tiny splinters๐Ÿ˜
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [rosshm] [ In reply to ]
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rosshm wrote:
What are the benefits of titanium as a frame material?


expensive, allows you to brag to your friends.

capable of having a brushed/polish finish which looks cool.

"superior" corrosion resistance. Which isn't really really much of an advantage, because corrosion isn't really a problem (even for steel bikes) if they are properly coated/painted and cared for.

the claimed benefit is "lighter" and more compliant than other metallic materials. The reality is that titanium is pretty "squishy" and a well designed steel bike built with a high quality, butted, alloy tube set (like Reynolds 753) is going to be a superior performing bike, same or lighter weight, stiffer where you need, compliant to the extent you need it.

Titanium is a "cool" material, but best left to applications of high temperature service, where corrosion or oxidation is a serious problem. For bikes, it really is a boutique material and if you did an objective comparison across a range of material properties against the functional performance requirements for a bicycle frame there is almost no way it would ever come out on top unless you just had some kind of emotional love for the material.
Last edited by: tri_yoda: Aug 9, 20 14:12
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
A unique hand made frame from Australia
Except its not.
Article says that the frames will "land in Australia in December"
Chances are they are made in China so that makes it a instant "no from me dawg"
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [Andrew69] [ In reply to ]
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Well spotted but at least it's an Australian company. Hard to buy anything made in Australia now days but I will always be somewhat patriotic.
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
rosshm wrote:
What are the benefits of titanium as a frame material?


expensive, allows you to brag to your friends.

capable of having a brushed/polish finish which looks cool.

"superior" corrosion resistance. Which isn't really really much of an advantage, because corrosion isn't really a problem (even for steel bikes) if they are properly coated/painted and cared for.

the claimed benefit is "lighter" and more compliant than other metallic materials. The reality is that titanium is pretty "squishy" and a well designed steel bike built with a high quality, butted, alloy tube set (like Reynolds 753) is going to be a superior performing bike, same or lighter weight, stiffer where you need, compliant to the extent you need it.

Titanium is a "cool" material, but best left to applications of high temperature service, where corrosion or oxidation is a serious problem. For bikes, it really is a boutique material and if you did an objective comparison across a range of material properties against the functional performance requirements for a bicycle frame there is almost no way it would ever come out on top unless you just had some kind of emotional love for the material.

Where does this "compliance" or squishiness" or "stiffness" purportedly come from, in any material bike frame?

----------------------------------
"i disagree with your analysis [or judgment], nevertheless you have the responsibility of moderating this board so i honor your authority to make the moderating decisions."
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:
the claimed benefit is "lighter" and more compliant than other metallic materials.

Good aluminum frames can be made lighter. My wife has an old 53cm Javelin Amerone that weighs 1040g... which is pretty typical.

I do like Ti, but... it isn't a wonder material.
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [Zissou] [ In reply to ]
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Zissou wrote:
gorgeous bike, but I will say that my heart sank when I saw the 14.5k AUD ( >10kUSD) price tag for the complete bike.


Geezus, that's crazy $$. I have a Made in the USA Quintana Roo Tiphoon Ti 54 cm (I think that is the size), I'll sell someone dirt cheap with Sram Red/Force, wheels (ya rim) for dirt cheap if you want Ti that bad. Heck I'll even add in a rear Corima tubular race wheel for a wee bit more plus about 5 tubulars on top of that. (of course I haven't figured what *dirt* cheap would be..
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [hercules] [ In reply to ]
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Another article here and I sweet pick of a fully polished model...

https://www.bikeradar.com/...embedded_slideshow=1
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
tri_yoda wrote:
rosshm wrote:
What are the benefits of titanium as a frame material?


expensive, allows you to brag to your friends.

capable of having a brushed/polish finish which looks cool.

"superior" corrosion resistance. Which isn't really really much of an advantage, because corrosion isn't really a problem (even for steel bikes) if they are properly coated/painted and cared for.

the claimed benefit is "lighter" and more compliant than other metallic materials. The reality is that titanium is pretty "squishy" and a well designed steel bike built with a high quality, butted, alloy tube set (like Reynolds 753) is going to be a superior performing bike, same or lighter weight, stiffer where you need, compliant to the extent you need it.

Titanium is a "cool" material, but best left to applications of high temperature service, where corrosion or oxidation is a serious problem. For bikes, it really is a boutique material and if you did an objective comparison across a range of material properties against the functional performance requirements for a bicycle frame there is almost no way it would ever come out on top unless you just had some kind of emotional love for the material.


Where does this "compliance" or squishiness" or "stiffness" purportedly come from, in any material bike frame?

a combination of the mechanical (geometry, thickness, diameter of the tubes) design and the modulus of the material. The modulus is the underlying property of the material, basically how much does it deflect under a specific applied load. However, that's only half the equation, the other part is the design of the tubeset. The easiest example of design is look at an old cannondale vs an old steel bike. The old aluminum bikes had much bigger diameter tubes to get adequate tube stiffness out of a lower modulus material, older steel bikes could get away with smaller diameter tubes because the material had much higher modulus. There have been a lot advances in heat treatment, alloy composition (both for material properties and improving weldability) and tube shaping capability over the past 30 years, so these caricatures (skinny old steel tubesets and fat old aluminum tube sets) have changed a lot, but are useful for understanding how you approach the design differently depending on the material.

compliance refers to deflection in the vertical direction, "stiffness" usually refers to out of plane deflection. Again, the compliance and stiffness is due to a combination of the chosen materials and tube geometries (larger diameter tubes. flares in tubes). Old cannondales compensated for the low modulus of Al, by using larger diameter tubes (but with thinner walls to keep the overall weight down). But the aluminum alloys have gotten a lot better and cannondale has implemented a lot of innovations, they used to do a post weld heat treatment of the entire frame (although a lot of that was related to welding process, which has also been improved a lot, both process wise and by improving the materials), not sure if they still do.

It's hard to do an apples to apples comparison, unless you were to build identical bikes (tube diameters, thickness, shape) out of different materials. Because of differences in the underlying materials, you choose different tube diameters, thickness and shapes depending on material, which will tend to compensate for some of the differences in uderlying properties of the materials, so that at the end the performance of the different materials general converge (in the complete frame) to some extent. However, it has been a typical practice to build steel and titanium bikes with relatively similar tube shapes and diameters and in such a case the modulus of the as-built Ti frame is going to be less than the steel one (which some might describe as squishy). Again, there is a whole range of possible stiffness of a frame depending on how you build (regardless of the material), so there are no absolutes only relative generalities.

But kind of back to the original point of why there really aren't any advantages for titanium (aside from thermal stability and corrosion resistance), it is the most expensive material and since you can make a good bicycle out of steel, carbon fiber or aluminum by properly designing the frame and tube geometry, there is not good reason to choose a material that costs 2-3X as much on a per pound basis. Unless you just "like it" or have some emotional conception of "ride quality", which is often as much to do with the mechanical design of the frame.
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
tri_yoda wrote:
the claimed benefit is "lighter" and more compliant than other metallic materials.


Good aluminum frames can be made lighter. My wife has an old 53cm Javelin Amerone that weighs 1040g... which is pretty typical.

I do like Ti, but... it isn't a wonder material.

Any frame can be made lighter (no matter what the material) to an extent, its just a matter of trade offs. I said "claimed" benefit (in the sense that you can't really substantiate such a claim, at best it is making an apples to oranges comparison) and put lighter in quotations, to emphasize it is being used subjectively rather than objectively. People made some really "light" titanium frames and I wouldn't want to ride one.

I agree with you, Ti is not a wonder material (at least not for bicycles). As a mechanical engineer with a strong materials background, Titanium would be my last choice (out of steel, Al or carbon) for a bicycle frame.
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Re: New shaped titanium bike frame [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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My wife rides a 15 years old Ti-Bike for about 50000 miles in all weather conditions (Ti6Al4V, at these days you still got a Ti64 frame), just a little bit of water and soap and the frame looks like on day one. A strong point of Ti, it is robust, it doesn't need to be treated carefully.

The bike with all stuff is right at the UCI limit of 6.8 kg, thus lighter than all these new road super bikes for more than 10000$.

With the exception of the American fashion brands good Ti-frames may not be too expensive. At least from Italy one gets good custom frames at around 2500$, Specialized or other top brand carbon frames may be much more expensive.

I once had a super light Al-frame bike (Sc alloyed Al, but not a Cannondale). I liked it a lot, but it failed at the steerer tube after about 15000 miles. I replaced the frame with a Ti-frame and donโ€™t think about cracking. If I remember correctly these light Cannondale Al-frames didnโ€™t have the eternal life.
Last edited by: BergHugi: Aug 10, 20 3:03
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