Maybe it shouldn't be controversial at this point since that corroborates the bicyclerollingresistance data.

BRR has GP5K TL at 8.9 and Pro One TL at 11.2 (100 psi), consistent with aero coach results.

They didn't even test the fast tires... but I guess it's intended for the masses not the CRR weenies.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
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Ah, I was looking at the TT version. I blame Schwalbe for having names that are way too complicated.

Ya totally valid point. Only thing I would add, is if they are on Crr par, the 100g savings on the pro one on longer courses with a bit of climbing might be a factor. Plus it’s also just interesting to see such different results. Heard some speculation that Schwalbe may have tweaked the pro one since roll out.

BRR rates the puncture resistance of the GP5000 much higher though. If we were comparing the faster Schwable tire vs the continental, would you choose 1.6 watts faster (for 2 tires) or double the puncture resistance (whatever that actually means?)

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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RoadBike found the same on puncture protection. Guess the Q is “how much puncture protection is enough”. Also pretty consistent findings that the Pro One family is more aero (1-2 watts) than the GP5K family (aerocoach, parcours) of tires.

Oh, I have not seen the aerocoach data on the scwalbe tire....

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/...mics-of-racing-tyres

The TT has the same structure/casing as the normal pro one, so would assume same aero profile.

Also parcours has similar results, but large grain of salt as the deltas (particularly at 0 yaw) between tires just don’t seem plausible. Could because their two tests were conducted a year apart:

https://www.parcours.cc/...g-the-new-generation

Schwalbe Pro One TT is very aero. So much so in fact that in very windy conditions, on our Zephyr front wheel (78mm) a 25mm Pro One TT is as fast as a Corsa Speed (23mm or 25mm). As the Schwalbe TT is more puncture resistant than a Corsa Speed it is a great backup combination for windy days or terrible road surfaces. On our Titan (which is deeper at 100mm, and isn't as wide externally as the Zephyr) the Schwalbe TT isn't as good and the Corsa Speed beats it (in both 23mm and 25mm). It does depend a lot on what wheel you're putting it on.

These are our recommendations for tyre choice for racing/training based on aero and Crr data, in order of real world speed:

1. Veloflex Record - fastest thing you can ride, not for very broken surfaces. Similar aerodynamics to the Corsa Speed but the Crr is so much lower than everything no other tyre is faster even if that other tyre is more aero
2. Corsa Speed - great option as you can run it tubeless or clincher, again not for very broken surfaces. This was our top recommendation on the fastest option before the new Veloflex Record came out but is the fastest tubeless tyre
3. Schwalbe Pro One TT - tubeless or clincher, much better for puncture protection than the Corsa Speed, very nearly as fast. If you want to race on a fast tyre in any conditions this is a good option
4. Continental GP5000 - tubeless or clincher. This for everything else. You can race and train on GP5000s and if you want a set of wheels you use at all times on your bike this is what to go with

Of course there are others in there like the Michelin, Pirelli, Specialized, but that's our simplified recommendation list. As stock on our wheels we supply Veloflex, Vittoria, Continental and can supply Schwalbe if people want them but we thought it would be better to make it even easier to understand (Veloflex for best, Vittoria for best tubeless, GP5000 for everything else).

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AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

How do these new tires test against the old school Continental Supersonics? I have a couple of these still new in box. I only use them for racing and they last quite a while for supposedly fragile fast tires.

I'm really happy with the new Schwalbe TLE, so far they have been very durable and they ride nice. I'm tired of wrestling with the GP5000Tls. Glad to hear the new Schwalbes are close in rolling resistance.

Xavier, really interesting observation you make about the puncture resistance of the pro one TT vs corsa speed. BRR had the corsa well ahead of the pro one TT on this score, but if I recall he also flagged that real world resistance was a bit of an open question. I take it that your experience and those of your clients is that the pro one TT holds up actually quiet well (in relative terms, of course)? Probably not that relevant for this crowd, but the pro one TT also comes in a 28 (the corsa does not), if you ever wanted to through a 28 on the rear.

To finish first, you must first finish. Choose wisely- unless you're in my age group.

Yeah, it got to the point where I started commuting on Pro One TTs to try and puncture them because none of us could in training. Eventually managed it on a patch of gravel, then it sealed and I carried on. Not something you'd be able to do with Corsa Speeds! Grip is fine too - I haven't personally had issues with either the Corsa Speed or Pro One TT for grip but I know one of the world tour teams don't like the Corsa Speed for grip, they race faster than I do however :D

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AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

That’s great to know!!! I have a set of ENVE AR 4.5s and wanted to run it with a very fast tire in some cases (crits, longer road races). Corsa Speed isnt approved by ENVE (and doesn’t even come in a 28, the minimum tire size for them). But had heard the pro one TT was VERY fragile, so figured I was out of luck. So this is very good news!

Why not? I've twice had Corsa Speeds puncture-then-seal in TT competition.

Ah I don't mean the sealing, I mean the amount of mileage on bad surfaces

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AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

Ah, gotcha. I agree that Corsa Speed effective mileage is low.

Yes I think that would be a great option. I was about to recommend the GP5000 as it's not too far behind but that's not an approved tyre for the 4.5s either.

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AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

At what pressure did the tyre seal? Also, what tyre size?

I ran 23c 1st gen Schwalbe Pro One tires at 75 psi, and the thing too forever to seal.

It would have been 75-78psi and 25mm Pro One TT. I got off the bike and span the wheel when I heard it hissing and then it sorted itself out.

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AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

Sadly no :( This is why I was excited about the RoadBike RR results on the pro one tle, for day to day training.

Hopeful that Conti sorts it all out with the next update of the GP series. Seems just a matter of time given that Zipp appears to have gone all in on hookless for better or for worse.

Have you given any thought to a hookless rim on the next generation of your in-house wheels? Or just a solution in search of a problem as some have commented (I think Tom A).

Hookless solves a real problem, it's just a manufacturing expense problem, not a performance or reliability problem.... and since the savings are not passed on to the consumer, I for one am not excited about the tire limitations hookless imposes on the customer.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

What do you mean the savings are not passed on to the consumer?

The 2020 Zipp 303 Firecrest is US$1900 retail. The prior generation of the model of the same name was US$2200 retail.

Way back in 2015 the SES 4.5 was US$2900 retail with DT240s. Now they start at $2550 (granted with ENVE hubs instead of DTs). And the Foundation 45's are $1600.

Since when have Zipp and ENVE ever reduced prices?

I think some here have come up with the conspiracy theory that Zipp/ENVE are just lowering prices to compete with nearly-equivalent products that are much cheaper, and using "hookless" as a cover story. But I'm not so sure about that.