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New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out?
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More of a thought exercise than anything else, but all else being equal, what would get you the "better" (I guess I mean faster) bike, a new "superbike" (lets not go crazy, but say 6-8k price range), or something like a used p5-six frame that you build up with all the aero goodies? I feel like maybe I'd end up at about the same end price, but might end up with a slicker bike going the used route. Only thing I see as an aero "loss" might be the lack of hidden cables (but, i'd image going with a built up sram red 1x) you lose a bunch of that potential exposed cable anyway.

Thoughts? Ideas? I am currently riding an old leader aluminum frame. It's got aero"ish" tube shapes, but not sure it's actually all that aero. It gets me into my position, and realize that the frame is a small part of the picture, I'm just wondering if it might be worth it to start getting some upgrades (that would be able to migrate to the next frame), and then in the next year or so, upgrade the frame, migrate the parts, get a few more goodies, and have a pretty tricked out rig. Or do I just ride what I've got now, save up and get something new with the newest tech. Just seems like a tri-rig front end, some aero brakes, etc. will get you 99 % + of the way there, or maybe even faster.

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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [gregkeller] [ In reply to ]
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With the p5-6 i think you are 99% of the way there without any upgrades at a relatively cheap price depending on year. The route that i am going is a 2014 p3 which is similar to the p5, then add p5-6 fork make it a 1x with aero chainring and add a fairing upfront which essentially makes it a p5-6 with a tiny loss in aero due to rear brake and costumisable front end.
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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [transam2k4] [ In reply to ]
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If you like to tinker, are good with bikes and will enjoy picking each part, get a ā€œpeak aeroā€ frame and go to town.

If that sound awful, you can buy a lot of bike for 8k.
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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [gregkeller] [ In reply to ]
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Great question! I've been wondering this also, the P5-6 is regarded as one of the best aero bikes made, and still nearly 2lbs lighter than the gazillion dollar Canyon CFR.

You could have a lot of fun binging it out with wheels, power meter etc and still have thousands in the bank.
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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [Tri.Tony] [ In reply to ]
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There are people out there who donā€™t like to tinker? šŸ˜‚. Last few bikes have been bare frame builds. I feel like itā€™s easier to sneak it past the wife when it comes through the door in small boxes.

So now to keep my eyes out for a p5-6 frame in 58 cm on the bay.

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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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Already good with power meter, rear disc and 90 mm front. Really it would be a sick base bar/extension setup, make sure brakes are optimized with some tri rigs if they arenā€™t hidden already. And a sram etap setup. That would probably be the most expensive part

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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [gregkeller] [ In reply to ]
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I had my 1x 58cm P5 listed for months, thinking I'd get a new bike this year. Then once it became apparent that bikes aren't available and I pull the posting to make sure I have a bike for 2021, there have been several people looking for a 58cm P5... Just my luck!
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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [gregkeller] [ In reply to ]
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About four years ago, I had a Dimond and knew I wasn't going to be racing seriously for a few years. I sold it, bought an unused QR Illicito frame for $800, put an Alpha X aerobar on it, new fork, Omega X brakes and with the geometry of the frame, I was able to get into one of the better positions I've ever had. I've had the fastest splits I've ever had on the "new" bike even though the frame is now 10 years old. Tinkering is fun!

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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [darkhorsetri] [ In reply to ]
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Now how far off would an older p3 be? looking at ebay it seems there are tons of them available, I could get one for 5-600 bucks, where lots of the p5's are as full bikes, which gets me more of a spare parts pile than I want. Eventually I get to the point where something isn't any faster than my current bike.

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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [gregkeller] [ In reply to ]
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When I saw how close the older Gen Felt did in the Slowtwitch superbike test, it convinced me I'm never buying a new tri frame to replace my P2C. If I had to replace my tri bike I would probably find an old P3C and buy a newer model fork for it. And build it with Di2. After trying it for the first time, i really want it for my tri bike.
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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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Back when I was racing TT's a decent amount, I always lusted over the P3C, zipp disc and 1080 in the front. Those bikes looked so fast just standing still. Cool to hear that they are able to hold their own. I can find P3C's for like $5-700 bucks on ebay.

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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [gregkeller] [ In reply to ]
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gregkeller wrote:
Now how far off would an older p3 be? looking at ebay it seems there are tons of them available, I could get one for 5-600 bucks, where lots of the p5's are as full bikes, which gets me more of a spare parts pile than I want. Eventually I get to the point where something isn't any faster than my current bike.

I think the bigger question is how much better can/will your position be? Those older P3s and the frame I ended up with are decently long and low. A more aero position will likely mean more than what the bike is going to do for you from an aerodynamic standpoint. One of the issues you may encounter compared to today's frames is where to put food/hydration, etc...especially for IM.
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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [gregkeller] [ In reply to ]
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You know what would be cool?

If someone did some wind tunnel testing on a whole bunch of bikes so you would have an answered backed by some real data.

Oh wait, someone did exactly that

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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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May have been a bit more snarky than it needed to be, but he's not wrong. The gist from the study, to me and (I think) to most who have tried to drown themselves in these data, is this:

"Triathlon bikes are approaching aerodynamic parity. With a rider on board, just over one hundred grams of drag difference or .01 m2 on a weighted-average basis were seen between the fastest bike in our study and the slowest. Cerveloā€™s new P5-X is negligibly faster than the P5-6 that came before it, which was negligibly faster than the P4
that came before it. We as athletes and consumers now live in the age of peak aero."
Last edited by: Brytcyd: Mar 4, 21 16:03
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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [Brytcyd] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, little snark, but Iā€™m a big boy. Itā€™s all good. Iā€™m probably the 7658th person to ask a similar question. So p5-6 it is, gonna keep my eyes peeled on the classifieds and eBay.

Now after reading the peak aero article I wonder if itā€™s even worth making expensive upgrades to that bike. Like there is one on eBay right now that has zero bids and is sitting at less than 2k for a complete bike. Wheels are nothing more than training hoops so throw a disc and deep front on and itā€™s awesome. Is it worth 1k for a Tri rig bar setup? Brakes are already shrouded so no reason for anything there. Maybe switching over to a 1x, but thatā€™s more of just a cheaper way to get electronic shifting on the bike. I could just end up chasing my tail for marginal gains, sink 3-4K into it that I should just drop at the wind tunnel instead.

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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [gregkeller] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty on point with your thinking. I just bought a Trek SC, 4iiii PM and a set HED wheels. All in, under 4k.

No need to go bonkers. The HEDs are the black anodized version and braking is notably much better. Very impressed by them. I was hesitant to get the bike as I kept telling myself, wish it was a disc brake bike...blah blah. Get the bike you like the look of that fits and makes you happy. Boom, done.

I don't feel any need to upgrade to anything newer and I may add Di2 to it. In the end, it's really about the engine not the bike.

Golf and tri are relatively the same. Tons of advertising and sucking consumers in for relatively small gains. Stadler set the course record in Kona on a kuota kalibur. Most athletes wouldn't be caught dead on that now as it wouldn't live up to today's standards.

Get what you want for the cheapest price and ride it hard.
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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [gregkeller] [ In reply to ]
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That's basically the path I went down. I bought a 2014 NP3 off eBay, a Di2 setup, a new bottom bracket and crankset, and the TriRig bars and brakes. I'll pick up some race wheels before IMWI. I like the adjustability in the new TriRig setup, as well as how clean it is. The aero data they've provided looks fairly strong, but I'm no aerodynamicist. If it saves me 1-2 min on an IM, terrific, but I'm more concerned about the ease of fit/comfort, which should effectively save the same amount of time (or more) if it helps me stay down.

Don't forget to put a professional fit on your list.
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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [gregkeller] [ In reply to ]
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gregkeller wrote:
So p5-6 it is..............one is sitting at less than 2k for a complete bike. I could just end up chasing my tail for marginal gains, sink 3-4K into it that I should just drop at the wind tunnel instead.



If that bike fits you you're race ready. You'll be rolling up to your AG racks with one of the top 10 fastest machines in your AG as long as it's set up right

If you're dropping $3-4k at the wind tunnel you're doing it wrong. Ask me how I know haha!

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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Haha, I'd love to get to the tunnel. Maybe next year. I've had my position worked on by a pretty reputable place here in NJ, and it's nice and comfy and I said I wanted to lean towards "fast" over comfort since most of my racing will be olympic distance and the occasional 70.3 for the time being, so I have fit coordinates that seem to work with most bikes that aren't super short and tall. My pad stack is 676 and pad reach is 527, so with something like a tri-rig alpha I can probably fit on the majority of bikes out there.

Now, i get that most of that is going to be me working on getting my shoulders set right, and my head tucked, and a good helmet that meshes with my position, but I just can't imagine how much fun a trip to the tunnel would be. How many hours would you think it takes to get someone dialed in? 2-3?

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Re: New New bike, or build up a used frame and trick it out? [gregkeller] [ In reply to ]
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For those testing for the first time we suggest ~ 2h. People start to struggle with the testing and holding yourself in the same position after that (sometimes before that if they are out of shape)

That will allow several position changes, multiple helmets & textiles changes (suits, socks etc) as well as storage on your bike.

people leave armed with the knowledge of how fast a fast position is and how fast a comfort position is. Who knows, wouldn't be the first time I've made a comfort position faster than the fast position that they started in. #winning

Last time I tested I was done in < 20 min. It was 2 or 3 position tweaks and some of those go fast on others but not on me socks :-( sad Brian.

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