But are you really surprised? (I'm not.)

Dan

No.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

You can always make more profit by organizing your own race and giving out your own slots, then selling the same slots to another RD. If I was WTC (a business) I would do the same thing. Emotion and tradition (i.e. letting an existing race survive), is less important than making more money and extending the reach of your brand through your own channels. Let's face it, the WTC is getting increasingly vertically integrated by putting on their own events, or through their own hand picked franchisees such as Ironman North America and the folks that bring your Ironman Frankfurt, Austria and France (triangle promotions ?).

I can't fault them, but as an athlete, I'd like to see a race like the existing Kona Half survive. I still maintain that Sharon Ackles should put on her own Ironman in Kona...it would sell out.



Dev

I don't think another iron race in Kona would sell out. It just would not be the same. I would not go.

Keauhou Kona Tri lost it's ironman spots because they did not cooperate with WTC on the same level the other qualfier races have to. Keauhou no longer was exempt from certain paper work and fees that other qualifiers are because Sharron Ackles worked for WTC.

The Keauhou Race will go on if it is run as a business and its niche redefined. Okay so it's not a qualifier any longer, it's still a way to experience the Ironman race course at a great time of year and with less high-stress competition for that Ironman spot. Next year when the new qualifier expands to a half ironman distance, the KKT can scale down to an Olympic distance and be a tune up race for the qualifier add back in the relays which used to be a huge paft of the race, and market itself as a local, community event. It still has a great reputation that can be marketed or squelched. Or the director can take his ball and go home complaining that the other boys didn't play fair. It's not an easy world out there.

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______________________________
Have you hugged Your Mom today?

"Keauhou Kona Tri lost it's ironman spots because they did not cooperate with WTC on the same level the other qualfier races have to."

This is the second time you've written this statement and it's NOT true. The paperwork was completed and sent to WTC by the deadline. WTC also asked for additional information and they received it. Everyone knows WTC was not going to give Keauhou the slots because of Joe and Sharon. LJK, you've been listening to the wrong people. WTC will chew you up and spit you out when they don't need you any more. Right now they need you because you're part of the "tri community". I for one will not volunteer for this new race but will be at Keauhou Kona Tri with bells on!!!

The arrogance of WTC amazes me. What amazes even more is that the people and the athletes of the Big Island would tolerate this happening 2 weeks after KK tri. This will be 3 triathlons and marathon in 2 months. The traffic situation on the Big Island is intolerable. Granted these event boost the local economy but at a price.

The timing of this WTC event is too ruin the KK tri. Anybody that does not believe that is naïve. The race can happen and should, but not at the expense of others, this race could happen latter in the summer.

It is real simple Hawaii – call your local government officials and tell them not to grant permits on that date. - Call the Mauni Lani Resort and tell them to switch dates. Hotels hate bad publicity.

It cruel world someone wrote.

MM

MM,

I agree that it is an attempt to ruin the KK race. I did the KK race for the first time last year and I am signed up to do it again this year. Here is one way I see them ruining the KK race. I am a member of a tri club and about 15 members went over to race. Also included were at leat another 15-20 family members. We got a great group deal on airfare, condos and car rentals. Two or three club members were trying o qualify for Hawaii. If we were to go over as a group in 2005 we sould have to decide between the two races. Being that I would not be trying to qualify, I would rather do the KK race, however, if I want to hang out with my friends I may have to go to the newer race since some of them will be trying to qualify.

The question is, does the town of Kona have more power than the Ironman race or does the Ironman race have more power than Kona?

Willy in Pacifica

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Willy in Pacifica

>.The question is, does the town of Kona have more power than the Ironman race or does the Ironman race have more power than Kona?<<

I don't think it's as easy a question as that Willy. From what I saw and heard from volunteering all week in October and from emails from someone I know on the island (long-time volunteer), even the locals are somewhat split. There was a (vocal) faction who were seriously hoping to see the new RD fail and were not quiet about their dislike of her and the changes. There was another group (smaller) who were total new RD suckups, as if she walked on water. Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle.

But you are right about having to decide on the two races if you have a number of people, all with different goals and aspirations.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

The new Kona race not only falls 2 weeks after keauhou kona tri, a clear effort to hurt that race--it's 1 week before the kona marathon, a fun race with 5k, 10k, 1/2, full that gets 1500 or more people. Did Ironman Kona and Florida set out to do the most damage they could by selecting that date? Shame on them, from the local event director in Kona to the president in Florida. WTC is the 1,000 pound gorilla that nobody wants to buck--least of all athletes because they're afraid of what Friedland and WTC will do. Look what he's doing to the Ackles!!! Will Kona stand for this new race? I wonder where the volunteers will come from--hard to support 3 races within a month. But "Kona" is not one entity. Athletes wanting to get in Ironman have no choice but to race. Sad, sad situation; WTC has gone out of their way to be nasty to the community, to the athletes who must give up one or more races, to both Jim Lovell (Kona Marathon) and Joe Ackles (Keauhou Kona Tri), to the economy (some who would have come for multiple races may not), to the volunteers. No spirit of aloha. Makes me ill.

Just another sad page in the WTC book. I had friends very involved in IM California when it was a full IM and were heart borken when it was down graded to a 1/2 and the Hawaii slots were watered down. This situation in Hawaii is right in line with how they treat thier other licensee's. Roth wouldn't make certain consessions so hello IM Frankfurt. Things go wrong in Utah, downgrade it to a half - bad location or not, they met thier financial obligation, who cares if this is not a suitable lake for swimming. The list goes on and on. They will continue to shop thier Hawaii slots to the races that make the most consessions to them that ultimately bring in the $$'s. It's greed pure and simple. I give the Oceanside race 3 more years before they yank the Hawaii slots.

Hi,

Though there is some buzz around Kona town about WTC maybe wanting to pull out of Kona entirely (their behavior would indicate no love for Kona), I think, and many do, that Ironman Triathlon World Championship would not have the cachet it does without being in Kona.

I called up to the Mauna Lani Hotel to see about a room for the night before the race. I can get the special rate, including breakfast--$355. Yeooooww!

KonaMoose

here's a contrary view...

before discussing the kona race, somehow oceanside and utah got into this thread. WTC sells a license to put on races, and as far as i know, IM hawaii and now this new race are the only events they personally own and produce.

so if you want to get mad at WTC, best to get mad at them for things they do, not for things they don't. get made at IM north america for utah and california. yes, WTC can exert certain pressures on that organization, but i think WTC believes that on balance IMNA does a very good job, and so won't meddle too much in how IMNA runs its business.

also, roth came up. would i have dumped roth if i was WTC? hard to say. detlef kuhnel is as much a horse's ass as anyone i ever met over my 25 years as a triathlete, so it's hard for me to blame WTC for that.

back to kona. i do not know, but i have heard, that sharron ackles was unwilling to make the big changes that we all saw in kona this past year, particularly moving the transition area from the pier to where it now is. frankly, if i was WTC and my employee was unwilling to execute my wishes, i would reluctantly have to place my business in the hands of someone who would execute my wishes. no knock in sharron. i've likewise been fired when my direction and my employer's direction weren't heading in the same direction. that's business.

which brings us to the current new race. WTC has an organization in place in kona. it's got to leverage its resources, and it's hard to keep an office in place all year long for one race. you can't have as part of your business plan protecting the property of a spouse of an ex employee. there are very good reasons for keauhou being when it is, and those reasons are also, presumably, good reasons for the new kona race to be in the same general place on the calendar.

i would also say that 2 weeks space between the two races is plenty in order to compete in an oly distance and then a half, and then the following year perhaps the ackles' and WTC could find a scheduling accommodation.

then there are the slots. did keauhou get the opportunity to keep its slots at the same rate paid by, say, lubbock? i don't know. unless we know that it's hard to wag the finger too hard at WTC.

my only criticism of WTC is this. every other person in the world has to complete at least a half-IM in order to race kona. that shouldn't be waived in the case of this race. keep that in place (i say) and then qualifiers will most likely have to sign up for keauhou two weeks later.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

[snip]

before anyone corrects me allow me to correct myself. i believe keauhou is 2 weeks BEFORE kona, not 2 weeks after. (but i'd still like to see the new race qualifiers be required to finish a half, and it would boost keauhou's numbers significantly, i think, if that requirement was in place).

and one other thing. it is absolutely false to suggest WTC's commitment to (the city of) kona is on the wane. WTC's presence on the island is bigger than it ever was. during the late '90s i believe there was some consideration given to moving the IM world championship to florida, but that didn't get very far.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Dan, unless I'm terribly confused, the new Kona Oly is two weeks after Keauhou, not before. It would have been nice had it been the other way around... it's doable but more mature triathletes like myself are going to be challenged to hammer both! (unless of course you're on the EPO/steroid train).

Dan-

I threw in the refernces to Oceanside, Utah and Roth to make the point that WTC oversee's the distribution of Kona slots through it's licensee's as they see fit. To say it is a fair system is one argument. Those involved in the race productions and management of those licensee organizations would certainly have thier take and I think we have all seen the measures Graham Fraser will go to run his business as soundly as possible to stay in the best possible standing of WTC.

The situation with Kona is yet another example of influence of power, so I will correct myself because I said it was greed (which is just my opinion.) WTC has the power to grant slots and take them away. It seems (to me) petty to take them away from Keahou-Kona and add another race earlier in May. I do not see this as a business decision, I believe WTC does just fine with IM Hawaii only + the fees paid by the licensee's from thier races. This appears to be a more personal attack on the existing race that is no longer in the good graces of WTC.

That is just the way it seems to me, one person. You make many many excellent points - thank you for sharing.

 My guess was the Lavaman would be the goldenchild to get the slots. WTC is as interesting company as the State if Hawaii is. I have been out here 11 years now and everyday I am amazed at the Banana Republic of Hawaii and it's on goings.
To be fair to all parties, Joe and Sharon have done some things that have not made best of friends with some people on the islands as well. I don't have an ax to grind with either of them, but I do hear talk.
Mauna Lani is a super high end resort so the $300+ room rate isn't too bad. I usually stay at Uncle Billy's in Kona when I have to get a room, 100$ per night cause I am cheap. But Mauna Lani is pretty nice at that price.
I think people should not call and protest to the town and County, since it isn't really your business what the business is on Big Island. Things will sort themselves out. And if the Mauna Lani wants to spend their money on a triathlon what difference does it make to you in Kansas? As a sport , we need al the sponsors we can get., and I don't want you peeing in my pool to lose a good one.
I am not a big fan of WTC, but if you don't like them, don't support them period. It is sad that we live on a small island and can't get along and work together, but what other business works well with exemployees? G

I agree with G-man that it's a waste of energy to protest to the county of Hawaii over WTC's decision to put on a race at the time they are. I'm not advocating doing anything to stop it. I just find it very unfortunate that WTC elected to squeeze their race in between two existing, fine races when it seems that athletes and volunteers on the Big Island have worked hard to support all events.

The question came up about licensing fees. Does anybody know what, say, Ironman North America pays per Ironman slot for their races?

Regarding WTC and Kona, what I've observed over the past year is that where WTC would loan out equipment (trash barrels, etc.) to nonprofit groups, now they will not do so. They now prefer to keep their equipment locked up; one thing I will say is that under the previous regime, Ironman seemed a part of Kona, through community involvement, all year round. Now you don't really see the Ironman director--event director, whatever the new title is--out there, and WTC does not support local groups like they did before. I think they should make money--but they can do that PLUS support community groups with help that doesn't cost them much at all.

As a former resident of the Big Island and still involved with races in Hawaii.

My first reaction was shock and dismay at the decision of the new race.

But after much thought, Right or wrong, it is a brilliant (and of course a controversial) business decision. The slots are owned by WTC and thus they can do what they what with them, producing their own race makes at lot of sense. Obviously, for whatever reasons WTC and KK tri cannot and will not do business together. Other races have had their slots pulled and survived. The KK tri is a great race and I wish them the best. The Ackels have done great things for the race community in Hawaii the past 16 years and that should not be forgotten.

As for the new race, it is at a great venue and if is produced right could be instant classic. I too wish them the best.

Will the new race affect the other races? We will have to gauge that after the dust settles.

No doubt the KK tri will fell the biggest impact. The Lavaman has grown since its inception and hopefully is does so again. Jim Lovell has done a great job in growing the Kona Marathon into a huge event especially from the non-profit teams that it should have continued success.

The biggest loser in this is the race and volunteer community in Hawaii which is again split in their emotions about this new race.

Hopefully some healing can take place somehow.



I for myself, I am pro race and pro triathlon and hopefully all the races will succedd.

Good Luck Hawaii



Aloha



Brad Kurtz

"Regarding WTC and Kona, what I've observed over the past year is that where WTC would loan out equipment (trash barrels, etc.) to nonprofit groups, now they will not do so. They now prefer to keep their equipment locked up... WTC does not support local groups like they did before"[/reply]

Before you go posting, check your facts. WTC/Ironman still loans out equipment from the warehouse. All non-profit group has to do is ask and return the equipment in good condition. A couple of weeks ago I was at the State Age Group Swimming Championships and saw lots of WTC equipment all over the pool deck. A recent fund raising concert in Waimea , the American Cancer Society's Relay For Life, and the Lavaman also borrow equipment, among many other groups.

Also, WTC/Ironman Foundation pays out tens of thousand of dollars to local non-profit groups. How much did you donate? Ask American Cancer Society, Special Olympics or some local canoe clubs how much they hve received.

Yes, Ironman does loan equipment/supplies out to the community but not to the extent that they used too. I know for a fact that a couple of months ago a local woman called the Ironman office and spoke to the Event Director and asked if she could borrow a hundred plastic chairs for an event. She was told "No, that Ironman does not have chairs" which was a down right lie. I've been to the Ironman warehouse and they have plenty of chairs. What's up with that? It's a pretty sad situation in Kona. It's just not the same anymore.