Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems...
Quote | Reply
I saw this posted on one of my FB feeds from a coach, and my guess from 5 months ago seems to have been spot on. They cannot cancel a race until the locals do first, or they lose their insurance money. Glad the new owners are owning up to this, would have saved a lot of folks a lot of grief over the past months, especially the ones that actually flew to and put themselves up at race sites that got cancelled very late;

“For all my triathlon friends and connections near and far. Last week I was included in a global conference call that I was selected for with Ironman. The intent was to inform the list of coaches on the call and then have each of us disseminate the info as we are able. This call was to explain why transfers are offered for 2020 races when we all mostly know those will get canceled. And other details as to how they are trying to address the issues. Keep in mind, this is ever - evolving for them and unprecedented.
1) Displaced athletes are everywhere, Globally. It has been a huge undertaking to figure out how to handle this. Whether it feels this way or not, IM sees this as first priority.
2) The city or governing state agency has to pull the plug to enable Ironman to re - coop insurance on lost expenditures. If Ironman makes the call, they cannot re - coop monies spent.
3) Permitting is not complete for 2021 (usually starts after the race date passes for the next year), so a date cannot be published yet. By choosing a 2020 race still scheduled that will likely get canceled, you are essentially choosing it for 2021 unless by some stroke of a miracle the race gets pulled off.
4) There are still 18 races that remain on the 2020 schedule in the US. IM desperately wants to host a race, any race. Its dependent on each city/state. The current dates for TX and Utah races are still being viewed as "strong" possibilities, there are now 10 on their list they hope to hold.
5) Any races you choose to transfer to still on the 2020 scheduled if canceled will likely by the deferral choice for 2021 as a calendar placeholder.
6) Mexico has given government permission and Global IM says its a go as long as they get enough registrations to make it profitable. Keep in mind, other unforeseeable factors can happen ie hurricane. Australia is also trying very hard to make a few races happen. That does not take into context any travel restrictions to and from various countries. That is an ever evolving separate issue. Transfers are not allowed from one region to another because funds cannot be co-mingled. In other words, requesting transfer from a Canadian race cannot be granted for races in the US or Mexico etc.
7) Kona was postponed in Oct to Feb because of travel restrictions, but the most recent postponement was not due to travel. It was a financial decision as less than 500 athletes were registered by qualification and legacy slots combined. An Expo would not be allowed so it would be a huge financial loss. They plan to reveal a virtual format for the Kona Saturday (the original date), there will be a large pro showing. Stay tuned for more details.
Consider every angle and what makes the most sense for you regarding safety, training, family, finances, and mindset. Take a few days to think it over. I know it can be an emotional decision. Be patient. IM laid off 150 people globally and are down to essential only to off load some financial strain. The few remaining employees are doing the best they can. Don’t shoot the messenger and remember honey attracts bees not vinegar.”
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You catch more flies with honey, but you catch more honeys by being fly!

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RE: Point #7.

Now, at least with a bit of certainty regarding the big show in October in Hawaii, I'm v. interested in seeing how the pros and the PTO can generate interest & market this to fans of the sport. I see a golden opportunity here for those who want to make a name for themselves.

Let's see the details, male and female pro athletes, from all countries! Make us care.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I haven't been a fan of the way WTC has done things for a couple of decades but when it comes to this current situation,the continuous complaining by registered athletes demanding refunds just illustrates how little the average triathlete understands about hosting any event, let alone one the size and of the standard that Ironman produce.

We folks here on Slowtwitch "tend to be" more informed about the state of play when hosting events and there are many race directors who are ST regulars, but in the emotional outrage culture of social media that event experience isn't as common and pitchforks and torches are out in full force.

I give the folks at WTC a pass for this year and with resume my sledging of global Iron-geekdom once COVID is done and dusted and we are back to the new tradition of mid October posts explaining why Lionel will win Kona "next year".
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThailandUltras wrote:
I haven't been a fan of the way WTC has done things for a couple of decades but when it comes to this current situation,the continuous complaining by registered athletes demanding refunds just illustrates how little the average triathlete understands about hosting any event, let alone one the size and of the standard that Ironman produce.

We folks here on Slowtwitch "tend to be" more informed about the state of play when hosting events and there are many race directors who are ST regulars, but in the emotional outrage culture of social media that event experience isn't as common and pitchforks and torches are out in full force.

I give the folks at WTC a pass for this year and with resume my sledging of global Iron-geekdom once COVID is done and dusted and we are back to the new tradition of mid October posts explaining why Lionel will win Kona "next year".

I don’t think it’s been that bad. Realistically they offer a premium product, and people expect a premium response. If this was a local 5k most people wouldn’t care they much, but this is a big money event that costs a lot to do, youre going to get these reactions.

A similar example was Vail resorts, they thought they could get by with no refund to their annual pass holders. That didn’t last long, if you’re a big company you need to be able to support a reasonable solution. Just because It’s Ironman doesn’t exempt them from that. If they assumed everything would always be highs and never any lows I don’t feel sorry for them.

-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for the info!
Regarding #6, when Mont Tremblant races were cancelled, in addition to the option of deferral to next year, were given transfer options to US races. So looks like they can in fact allow international transfer?
These were the options in the email I received:

1. Free deferral to 2021 IRONMAN Mont-Tremblant: Aug. 22, 2021

2. Free transfer to 2020 ViewSPORT IRONMAN Lake Placid: Aug. 30, 2020 (*tentative date)

3. Free transfer to 2020 IRONMAN Wisconsin: Sept. 13, 2020

4. Free transfer to 2020 Little Debbie IRONMAN Chattanooga presented by McKee, A Family Bakery: Sept. 27, 2020

5. Free transfer to 2020 IRONMAN Texas: Oct. 17, 2020
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm a pretty reasonable person. What I've noticed is that MANY, and TOO MANY triathletes seem unreasonable. I figured most of that was the case.

Hooker training for the Sport of Scrum-Halves [Triathlon]
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
4) There are still 18 races that remain on the 2020 schedule in the US. IM desperately wants to host a race, any race. Its dependent on each city/state. The current dates for TX and Utah races are still being viewed as "strong" possibilities, there are now 10 on their list they hope to hold.



Do we know what other races are part of the 10 they hope to hold?
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [42point2] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
42point2 wrote:

4) There are still 18 races that remain on the 2020 schedule in the US. IM desperately wants to host a race, any race. Its dependent on each city/state. The current dates for TX and Utah races are still being viewed as "strong" possibilities, there are now 10 on their list they hope to hold.

Do we know what other races are part of the 10 they hope to hold?
Here are the remaining US races (from the website, I only count 13). Anyone want to wager to bet the 10? Or what if/any are actually held?

IM STG - 9/19/20
IM FLA - 11/20/20
IM AZ - 11/22/20

IM 70.3 CDA - 9/6/20
IM 70.3 Atlantic City - 9/13/20
IM 70.3 Superfrog - 9/20/20
IM 70.3 Augusta - 9/27/20
IM 70.3 AZ - 10/18/20
IM 70.3 Waco - 10/18/20
IM 70.3 Gulf Coast - 11/07/20
IM 70.3 TX - 11/22/20
IM 70.3 Indian Wells - 12/6/20
IM 70.3 FL - 12/13/20
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [SayHey Kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SayHey Kid wrote:
42point2 wrote:

4) There are still 18 races that remain on the 2020 schedule in the US. IM desperately wants to host a race, any race. Its dependent on each city/state. The current dates for TX and Utah races are still being viewed as "strong" possibilities, there are now 10 on their list they hope to hold.

Do we know what other races are part of the 10 they hope to hold?

Here are the remaining US races (from the website, I only count 13). Anyone want to wager to bet the 10? Or what if/any are actually held?

IM STG - 9/19/20
IM FLA - 11/20/20
IM AZ - 11/22/20

IM 70.3 CDA - 9/6/20
IM 70.3 Atlantic City - 9/13/20
IM 70.3 Superfrog - 9/20/20
IM 70.3 Augusta - 9/27/20
IM 70.3 AZ - 10/18/20
IM 70.3 Waco - 10/18/20
IM 70.3 Gulf Coast - 11/07/20
IM 70.3 TX - 11/22/20
IM 70.3 Indian Wells - 12/6/20
IM 70.3 FL - 12/13/20


Monty posted on Aug 4th. I know that on Aug 5th IM 70.3 Memphis & IM 70.3 NC were cancelled. The cancellations in 2 days could be the difference in 18 races vs 13 races. I'm willing to bet at least 1 of the "hoped for" 10 has already been cancelled.......

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
Last edited by: japarker24: Aug 6, 20 11:28
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yea same for Victoria 70.3 - 8/9 options were for US races and the only Canadian one available was MT (which is, uh. pretty far from Victoria)
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [SayHey Kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Also IMTX 10/17
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hydrosloth wrote:
RE: Point #7.

Now, at least with a bit of certainty regarding the big show in October in Hawaii, I'm v. interested in seeing how the pros and the PTO can generate interest & market this to fans of the sport. I see a golden opportunity here for those who want to make a name for themselves.

Let's see the details, male and female pro athletes, from all countries! Make us care.

yes i was looking forward to a February classic race , would be nice if PTO came in here some how to still put it on.


http://www.coupleofathletes.com
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Superfrog and SuperSEAL both canceled as of today and neither is returning in 2021 either.

Tough day for California triathlon.
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [SayHey Kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Here are the remaining US races (from the website, I only count 13). Anyone want to wager to bet the 10? Or what if/any are actually held? //

Like it said in the letter I posted, they will not cancel until they are forced to by the locals for insurance reasons. So any races you see now, will almost certainly be cancelled at some point. Some municipalities are more stubborn than others, so Ironman has to wait for them on their schedules. And as you can see, just in the couple days since I posted this, the remainder are dropping like flies. If anyone is still thinking about their deferrals, I would most certainly not be looking any sooner than early summer 2021. But hey, if you can just leapfrog from one race to the next with no penalties, and you are good with knowing that it is a very low probability of the race happening anyway, then go for it!
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
japarker24 wrote:
I’m willing to bet at least 1 of the "hoped for" 10 has already been cancelled.......

I wouldn’t be surprised if DSM were on that list of ten, it was canceled yesterday or day before.

Dimond Bikes
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [SayHey Kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Update:


SayHey Kid wrote:


IM STG - 9/19/20 - Postponed
IM FLA - 11/20/20
IM AZ - 11/22/20

IM 70.3 CDA - 9/6/20
IM 70.3 Atlantic City - 9/13/20
IM 70.3 Superfrog - 9/20/20 - Cancelled
IM 70.3 Augusta - 9/27/20
IM 70.3 AZ - 10/18/20
IM 70.3 Waco - 10/18/20
IM 70.3 Gulf Coast - 11/07/20
IM 70.3 TX - 11/22/20
IM 70.3 Indian Wells - 12/6/20
IM 70.3 FL - 12/13/20

Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I haven't been a fan of the way WTC has done things for a couple of decades but when it comes to this current situation,the continuous complaining by registered athletes demanding refunds just illustrates how little the average triathlete understands about hosting any event, let alone one the size and of the standard that Ironman produce.


What's interesting here is the dynamics of this business is all the same, whether you are IM or some local 5km run.

The business runs on participant revenue. Sponsors, much to the surprise of many, really don't contribute a large amount of revenue - even at the level of IM or the big city marathons.

This year has been hugely challenging, but many races/events and the management companies organizing them, did not know this was going to happen - many races one earlier in the year, had sold out, others later in the year, well on their way to their expected entry numbers even when by mid-March, the rest of the year was looking ominous. Most races/events later in the year suspended registration.

Now - next year, is when things may get truly potentially catastrophic for the whole of the business. That is if no races/events will be allowed to be put on beyond a certain size!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [SayHey Kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CdA 70.3 is cancelled on your list.

https://www.spokesman.com/...triathlon-cancelled/
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [SayHey Kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SayHey Kid wrote:
Update:


SayHey Kid wrote:


IM STG - 9/19/20 - Postponed
IM FLA - 11/20/20
IM AZ - 11/22/20

IM 70.3 CDA - 9/6/20
IM 70.3 Atlantic City - 9/13/20
IM 70.3 Superfrog - 9/20/20 - Cancelled
IM 70.3 Augusta - 9/27/20
IM 70.3 AZ - 10/18/20
IM 70.3 Waco - 10/18/20
IM 70.3 Gulf Coast - 11/07/20
IM 70.3 TX - 11/22/20
IM 70.3 Indian Wells - 12/6/20
IM 70.3 FL - 12/13/20
Indian Wells just cancelled. Early but not unexpected from California. Makes planning easier at least.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig
Deals on Wheels - Race reports, pictures, sponsors, and more!
Most recent blog post: Takeaways from spectating Kona 2019
Most recent video: $20 photochromic cycling glasses review
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fleck wrote:
I haven't been a fan of the way WTC has done things for a couple of decades but when it comes to this current situation,the continuous complaining by registered athletes demanding refunds just illustrates how little the average triathlete understands about hosting any event, let alone one the size and of the standard that Ironman produce.


What's interesting here is the dynamics of this business is all the same, whether you are IM or some local 5km run.

The business runs on participant revenue. Sponsors, much to the surprise of many, really don't contribute a large amount of revenue - even at the level of IM or the big city marathons.

This year has been hugely challenging, but many races/events and the management companies organizing them, did not know this was going to happen - many races one earlier in the year, had sold out, others later in the year, well on their way to their expected entry numbers even when by mid-March, the rest of the year was looking ominous. Most races/events later in the year suspended registration.

Now - next year, is when things may get truly potentially catastrophic for the whole of the business. That is if no races/events will be allowed to be put on beyond a certain size!

This where it floors me a bit when people go we shouldn’t help companies out they should have had reserves. Well sure a lot of companies have reserves for a rough patch. I would be shocked if 1 percent of businesses have reserves to cover everything if they go to zero revenue for an extended period. You’d be leaving too much cash on the table to cover for how long they need to.

Unfortunately I don’t see racing going back to normal till at least 2022. Even then I think it’s going to be rough, the number of people racing will probably fall of a cliff a bit just from a cost perspective. The longer this goes on the more people will tighten their belts. Assuming they’re still working.

-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
IM STG - 9/19/20 - Cancelled
IM Texas - 10/17/20
M FLA - 11/07/20
IM AZ - 11/22/20

IM 70.3 CDA - 9/6/20 - Cancelled
IM 70.3 Atlantic City - 9/13/20 - Cancelled
IM 70.3 Superfrog - 9/20/20 - Cancelled
IM 70.3 Augusta - 9/27/20
- Cancelled
IM 70.3 AZ - 10/18/20
IM 70.3 Waco - 10/18/20
IM 70.3 Gulf Coast - 11/07/20
IM 70.3 TX - 11/22/20
IM 70.3 Indian Wells - 12/6/20 - Cancelled
IM 70.3 FL - 12/13/20
Last edited by: SayHey Kid: Sep 10, 20 22:17
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [Grantbot21] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This where it floors me a bit when people go we shouldn’t help companies out they should have had reserves. Well sure a lot of companies have reserves for a rough patch. I would be shocked if 1 percent of businesses have reserves to cover everything if they go to zero revenue for an extended period. You’d be leaving too much cash on the table to cover for how long they need to.


Since posted this previously, there have been some glimmers of hope - with smaller races/events in running, cycling and triathlon going on. Key word is SMALLER! I think we will see more of these starting to come back on line - probably in the 100 - 200 entrant range. With proper protocols instituted at the Start and the finish, as well as stripping down dramatically how much on-course and volunteer help is needed, and thus participants needing to be as self-sufficient as they can, I can see races/events like this happening.

The BIG challenge is, these races/events will NOT be money makers for the organizers, based on traditional pricing and costing structures. They will be money losers - which obviously not sustainable.

For the mid to really large sized races events - to put a number to them, 500+ participants right on up to 20,000 or more, they will not be happening any time soon. NO ONE will give you a permit for them.

What we may see is some races/events moving wholly onto private property to get around the permitting issue - this is what Challenge is doing with their relationship with NASCAR at Daytona and more recently in Miami - As long as public roads and space not being used, no traditional permits would be needed!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I wonder even how realistic some of these will be long term when budget problems come into play for cities. They may just not have the capacity to handle these event for awhile. Trail running might be the easiest one.

-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon
Quote Reply
Re: New Ironman owners, being more transparent it seems... [SayHey Kid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It’s surprising to me that imaz 70.3 is not canceled yet.

Dimond Bikes
Quote Reply

Prev Next