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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [cgrubb] [ In reply to ]
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cgrubb wrote:
Looks great ...... but a question for all fellow owners of the “old” S5, rim brake model, who is planning to upgrade to the new S5 disc?? .......and if so, why? ...and if not, why not???

I am not as an amateur road racer. Because disc wheels are still not well supported by neutral support at road races/crits, and they take longer to switch when they are. Also I'm pretty invested in wheels.
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [sausskross] [ In reply to ]
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Wow - that's fugly! After what we have seen from Cannondale, Specialized, BMC... Cervelo continues their trend of making ugly bikes.
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [sausskross] [ In reply to ]
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I... can't get over that stem. Also, I'm likely to need a 140mm... But the new S3 looks nice.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [cgrubb] [ In reply to ]
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With the current sales, 2018 S5 frame cost me $1,900; the new frame would cost nearly triple that. So, once I got my head screwed on straight and stopped drooling over the few seconds I would save on this new shiny version, the decision to go with the old S5 was an easy one.
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [FatandSlow] [ In reply to ]
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FatandSlow wrote:
As interested as I've been in this bike, I'm having trouble getting past some of the verbiage describing it. "42 grams faster..." When did weight become a measurement of speed? If the reverse is true, could I be 5 mph lighter? Ugh.

Um, that refers to grams of drag - nothing to do with weight. They mentioned it was equivalent to about 5.5 watts.

-Eric
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [EricTheBiking] [ In reply to ]
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EricTheBiking wrote:
FatandSlow wrote:
As interested as I've been in this bike, I'm having trouble getting past some of the verbiage describing it. "42 grams faster..." When did weight become a measurement of speed? If the reverse is true, could I be 5 mph lighter? Ugh.


Um, that refers to grams of drag - nothing to do with weight. They mentioned it was equivalent to about 5.5 watts.

-Eric

That's right. So if it takes 250 watts to go 25mph with the old bike, now you can go 25mph with 244.5 watts. It's a marginal gain...but still a gain. Plus the new bike looks great...never a fan of the current one in the looks department.
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [sausskross] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like I'll have to become a dentist in order to be able to afford one!
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [stonerider] [ In reply to ]
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stonerider wrote:
EricTheBiking wrote:
FatandSlow wrote:
As interested as I've been in this bike, I'm having trouble getting past some of the verbiage describing it. "42 grams faster..." When did weight become a measurement of speed? If the reverse is true, could I be 5 mph lighter? Ugh.


Um, that refers to grams of drag - nothing to do with weight. They mentioned it was equivalent to about 5.5 watts.

-Eric


That's right. So if it takes 250 watts to go 25mph with the old bike, now you can go 25mph with 244.5 watts. It's a marginal gain...but still a gain. Plus the new bike looks great...never a fan of the current one in the looks department.

Hmmm...I wonder what the front brake and front and rear brake cable housing loops on the previous gen were "worth"? ;-)

To calibrate y'all on the "cost" of brake cable housing, here's a little demo fixture I took some pictures of at the Win Tunnel a few weeks ago. These 2 objects have the same drag. The small cyclinder is the same outer diameter as a piece of cable housing.


Just sayin'...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
stonerider wrote:
EricTheBiking wrote:
FatandSlow wrote:
As interested as I've been in this bike, I'm having trouble getting past some of the verbiage describing it. "42 grams faster..." When did weight become a measurement of speed? If the reverse is true, could I be 5 mph lighter? Ugh.


Um, that refers to grams of drag - nothing to do with weight. They mentioned it was equivalent to about 5.5 watts.

-Eric


That's right. So if it takes 250 watts to go 25mph with the old bike, now you can go 25mph with 244.5 watts. It's a marginal gain...but still a gain. Plus the new bike looks great...never a fan of the current one in the looks department.


Hmmm...I wonder what the front brake and front and rear brake cable housing loops on the previous gen were "worth"? ;-)

To calibrate y'all on the "cost" of brake cable housing, here's a little demo fixture I took some pictures of at the Win Tunnel a few weeks ago. These 2 objects have the same drag. The small cyclinder is the same outer diameter as a piece of cable housing.


Just sayin'...

According to their whitepaper the difference between the new S5 with a std. stem/ their old aero handlebars without cables and the same setup with cables is 13 grams. (Bottom of page 17). The drag savings between the old bike and the new bike out of the box (I assume with properly trimmed cables) at 0 deg. is negligible. The difference over the yaw range appears to be 42g.
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [EricTheBiking] [ In reply to ]
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EricTheBiking wrote:
FatandSlow wrote:
As interested as I've been in this bike, I'm having trouble getting past some of the verbiage describing it. "42 grams faster..." When did weight become a measurement of speed? If the reverse is true, could I be 5 mph lighter? Ugh.


Um, that refers to grams of drag - nothing to do with weight. They mentioned it was equivalent to about 5.5 watts.

-Eric

Um, I understand that. I quoted directly from the article. If it had said grams of drag, fine. It said grams faster. Um, grams are not a measurement of speed.
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [cgrubb] [ In reply to ]
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disc brakes, duh!
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [pyrahna] [ In reply to ]
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pyrahna wrote:
According to their whitepaper the difference between the new S5 with a std. stem/ their old aero handlebars without cables and the same setup with cables is 13 grams. (Bottom of page 17). The drag savings between the old bike and the new bike out of the box (I assume with properly trimmed cables) at 0 deg. is negligible. The difference over the yaw range appears to be 42g.

Hmmm...since the new bike doesn't have ANY accomodations for external cables, nor a front mounted rim brake (with resulting exposed cable), I'm wondering if they're just talking about the exposed cables between the handlebar and their "standard stem adapter"? That would be some incredibly short runs, especially as compared to the previous gen S5.

That's a case where a photograph or two of the test setup would be helpful to put the result into context.

It'll be interesting to see the rim version of the new S3, and see how well they integrated the cable housing on that particular model. So far I've only seen pics of the disc S3...anybody see the rim version?



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
pyrahna wrote:

According to their whitepaper the difference between the new S5 with a std. stem/ their old aero handlebars without cables and the same setup with cables is 13 grams. (Bottom of page 17). The drag savings between the old bike and the new bike out of the box (I assume with properly trimmed cables) at 0 deg. is negligible. The difference over the yaw range appears to be 42g.


Hmmm...since the new bike doesn't have ANY accomodations for external cables, nor a front mounted rim brake (with resulting exposed cable), I'm wondering if they're just talking about the exposed cables between the handlebar and their "standard stem adapter"? That would be some incredibly short runs, especially as compared to the previous gen S5.

That is my understanding as well.

That's a case where a photograph or two of the test setup would be helpful to put the result into context.

Most definitely.

It'll be interesting to see the rim version of the new S3, and see how well they integrated the cable housing on that particular model. So far I've only seen pics of the disc S3...anybody see the rim version?

I'll be really surprised if the brakes and associated cables aren't very similar to the old S3/S5.

I'd like to add that for all the CFD graphs showing the V better, it doesn't seem any better at 0 yaw in their own wind tunnel graphs. Is there any evidence to suggest that this would only show itself w/ rider on tunnel testing?

I'm going to make one other comment, but before I do I would like to state that my eyeball wind tunnel is no good...never has been...and probably never will be. But does anyone else think the front of the fork's surface directly above the tire seems a bit blunt? At least in comparison to other disc bike shapes at that spot i.e. Venge, Madone (disc), SuperSix?
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [officespaced] [ In reply to ]
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officespaced wrote:
I was hoping they would have a fit chart or at least a fit calculator like they did with the P5X. The stack and reach in 54 cm are identical in the last gen but the v- stem makes it harder to figure out how to transfer my fit from the 2nd gen to this one.
It doesn't. A slammed v-stem of stated length and angle (virtual angle, obviously) puts the centre of the bar in exactly the same place as a normal stem of stated length and angle slammed on a bearing cap would put the centre of the bar.

As long as you can get over the fact that just because it looks different doesn't mean it behaves different then you can use the frame stack and reach chart just like normal.
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [wingguy] [ In reply to ]
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The looks wasn’t really the issue. The current geo doesn’t include a listing of all the stems so you can get a ballpark fit. Spacers further adjust stem height and tilting spacers adjust the bar angle. Specialized made a geo calculator so you help calculate your position to their stem and help choose the flat vs riser bar.

We expect this sort of info when dealing with integrated aero bars so I don’t think it’s unreasonable for them to make a chart.

I think it could be a better way to fit a wide range of people to the bike since you aren’t cutting a steerer tube.
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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There is no .. edit: I'm wrong .. there is just no pic online yet ..

___/\___/\___/\___ the surfboard of the Kurpfalz is the road bike .. oSo >> Older, and faster ..
Last edited by: sausskross: Oct 1, 18 10:08
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [FatandSlow] [ In reply to ]
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FatandSlow wrote:
EricTheBiking wrote:
FatandSlow wrote:
As interested as I've been in this bike, I'm having trouble getting past some of the verbiage describing it. "42 grams faster..." When did weight become a measurement of speed? If the reverse is true, could I be 5 mph lighter? Ugh.


Um, that refers to grams of drag - nothing to do with weight. They mentioned it was equivalent to about 5.5 watts.

-Eric


Um, I understand that. I quoted directly from the article. If it had said grams of drag, fine. It said grams faster. Um, grams are not a measurement of speed.

Great! So, given that you already know what it means, whence the difficulty in parsing which grams they meant? I mean, I noticed that as well, and it seemed mildly sloppy language, sure, but it took a fraction of a second for me, and now, seems it took about the same amount of time for YOU to understand precisely what they meant. So.... again... whence the trouble?

-Eric
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [EricTheBiking] [ In reply to ]
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It is a bit sloppy. Though I'm more upset by the lack of units on the y axis of the wind tunnel graphs and what kind of yaw weighing they have used to come up with it being 5.5W faster.
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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MTM wrote:
It is a bit sloppy. Though I'm more upset by the lack of units on the y axis of the wind tunnel graphs and what kind of yaw weighing they have used to come up with it being 5.5W faster.

I'm with you. In fact, one thing that jumped out at me was how close they are saying this bike is at 0-yaw to all the other past iterations. I would have thought that removing external cables, cleaning up the aerodynamics all over the bike, modern design, and so forth, would lead to a bike that's quicker at 0-yaw. And if it doesn't, why not?? So removing cables DOESN'T help at 0-yaw? Or it's offsetting a sin somewhere else?

-Eric
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [sausskross] [ In reply to ]
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Did nobody else notice that on page 10 of the white paper they list the ISO 4210 tire clearance as 38mm?!
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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That's a 38mm space, allowing 4mm each side for a 30mm tyre per ISO.


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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
That's a 38mm space, allowing 4mm each side for a 30mm tyre per ISO.

I just caught that myself. Rats.
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Check page 29 in the tech paper ..

___/\___/\___/\___ the surfboard of the Kurpfalz is the road bike .. oSo >> Older, and faster ..
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
Looks like I'll have to become a dentist in order to be able to afford one!

Further to that, I'd have to buy a bike box that the bars stay attached, as it looks like you wouldn't be able to break them down for travel.
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Re: New Cervélo S5 2019 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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you were thinking 'who needs an Exploro' - new benchmark in aero gravel...


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