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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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you ever play with putting a huge multiplier on the virtual riders speed? game makers learned way back when that walking around shooting things at realistic speed feels slow as hell on a computer screen (as does riding on the computrainer).

the character in DOOM runs at like 90mph.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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Anyway, I'm just a dude with kids, full time job, and a normal training load.

Don't sell yourself short. Until they quit their jobs to do TrainerRoad full time just a few weeks ago, this was exactly what the guys at TrainerRoad were too!
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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jmX wrote:
hillier99 wrote:
grosso27 wrote:
So it's TrainerRoad but with 3d visual interface? WANT! Where can I send my check?


The trainerroad programming guys just had a heart attack.

Brad


Doubtful ;) I've randomly posted shots of this program since 2010, so I think anybody who's done ANT+ stuff has probably seen what I was doing. I'm guessing no companies consider it financially viable or something to spend money on graphics programmers. Everything that's come out so far is pretty visually poor.

Anyway, I'm just a dude with kids, full time job, and a normal training load. Not much of a threat to a company who's got a bit of resources behind it.

So were the TR guys too... I think the "cheap power" market is a huge opportunity now.

Brad

3SIXTY5cycling.com
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [AHare] [ In reply to ]
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AHare wrote:
I actually made the very beginnings of an app like this last winter, but gave up once I learned about Trainerroad and went back to the other project I've got going. I did a couple computrainer races this winter, and I couldn't believe how awful the software was when you're talking about a $1k piece of equipment. Congratulations on pulling through and getting a polished-looking product out.

The goals I'd have for something like this:
-Any kind of multiplayer
-Online handicapped multiplayer - all the tactics and exercise of road-racing, without the bike damage when you crash. Handicapping could be based on each rider's FTP, though that'd require a server to keep track of people's FTP since lying would be an easy way to win.
-Real routes. You could maybe use the google elevation data and google earth textures, and elaborate with randomly-placed trees or something to do it on the cheap.

The video of 0.5 looks amazing. I echo the "shut up and take my money now" folks. I made a little java interval app last winter too, but yours is pretty and has all the power readouts and I want it now.

Online multiplayer is a whole bag of worms that I'll be waiting to implement. Local multiplayer with 2 people in the same room will be implemented soon....and I think I could probably up that to 4 per USB stick pretty easily for training studio use. You touch on one of the problems with multiplayer...with dozens of trainers out there, it's pretty easy for any user to modify their coefficients for speed->power and dominate, or simply lie about what trainer they have. I personally feel that a lot of riders just wanna hop on, get their workout done with the least boredom, and get off the trainer ASAP. Multiplayer gets more into the "game" aspect of things, so it'd be something I implement later. Considering I'm the sole user, it's low on the list at the moment.

I do like the idea of real routes, and had looked at data google has for use, but wasn't that impressed. More courses will be coming soon, but they'll be abstract like what I've got now, and based more on themes like "tropical island", "snowy forest", etc. Scenes are created programatically right now...randomly generated to a certain extent.

Others have mentioned to not worry about the steering. Don't worry guys, 90% of the time I don't use my steering joystick. Your bike ends up being totally controlled by the computer along the path if the controller isnt plugged in. I generally don't want to deal with steering during my workouts anyway. The AI's (and your own rider) do appear to "draft" and then slowly pass on the left automatically, altho there are admittedly quite a few things left to be desired in my AI programming.

There's a certain "fun" element that still isn't totally there, and the AI racers have helped, but I think ghost riders of past performances will help. This app also of course can be run in a "slim" mode so you can just run it next to netflix on your desktop or whatever. Sometimes you just wanna watch a movie or tv show, ya know?
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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Looks awesome. Maybe some resourceful company will see this and pay you for it. Either way, I like it.
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [papson14] [ In reply to ]
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Very awesome... do you have any way to post a video? Also shoot me a PM if you ever need any help with graphics ;).
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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This is beyond awesome and im sure you just pissed off a lot of manufacturers. :) Release it!
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [Rhymenocerus] [ In reply to ]
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Dude, you are one seriously smart guy! I couldn't do that if you gave me the rest of my life to accomplish it.
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [glazebal] [ In reply to ]
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glazebal wrote:
Very awesome... do you have any way to post a video? Also shoot me a PM if you ever need any help with graphics ;).

check his webpage, he has a youtube video posted of things.
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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here's my idea for what i want to see for the future of trainerroad/this or some other app:

i don't really care about some game mode or anything, just a cool 3d environment with recreations of actual stages and races, then have it all connected online. Then, while you're riding the course you can see where other people are and the only game is just being able to pass by other users of the app. I think this would create a sort of online community where you can actually do a "group ride" on a closed course with your buddies from anywhere in the world. You hit on the problems of cheating, and sure it's going to happen, but I think if you create a community where you can bond with cyclists of similar ability and just push each other while riding together on a virtual course, that would be super slick. Or you can just jump on the "app-wide" course and see all the other cyclists riding the course and just play a single player game of trying to pass as many people as possible.

Something along those lines. I really like trainerroad, but I wish there was more of a community aspect to it + 3d courses would be super slick.
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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jmX wrote:
Anyway, here's some screens of it in action (All screens taken at 1920x1080 with 4xAA)

[..]
Lemme know what you guys think, and suggestions for things you'd like to see would be interesting to hear too.

Nicely done. Not sure when you find time to do it, with a family, a job, and training, too. As a new dad, I can certainly feel for you and have dusted off my trainer since outdoor cycling time is limited, regardless of how nice the weather in south Texas is right now.

That said, I am curious if bikes are or will be able to be customized. From the above shot, I'm guessing you ride (or wish you did ride) a Zipp-equipped Specialized. Should you elect to release this (and I do hope you do -- fee or not, this, as others have said, is levels above & beyond what is out there now -- and without requiring any special equipment, too!), selecting a type (road/TT/MTB) and/or brand of bike would be a nice feature. But would that then require licensing from a given manufacturer?

Again, nice work.


#cureMS
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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GMAN19030 wrote:
hillier99 wrote:
grosso27 wrote:
So it's TrainerRoad but with 3d visual interface? WANT! Where can I send my check?


The trainerroad programming guys just had a heart attack.

Brad


I agree.

at some point some body is going to offer what Trainer road has plus some more for less or free...

mark my word

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [camaleon] [ In reply to ]
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camaleon wrote:
at some point some body is going to offer what Trainer road has plus some more for less or free...

mark my word

I'll be realizing a free version at some point for sure. It won't be the full featured thing I'm showing here, but certainly it'd let you do workouts and calf power from trainer speed.

I'll also be realizing a utility that will take any garmin fit file that you might record while riding on a trainer and process it so that it'll have power data inside it. This will be a super simple utility, but may be of some use.
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [off242] [ In reply to ]
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off242 wrote:
As a new dad, I can certainly feel for you and have dusted off my trainer since outdoor cycling time is limited, regardless of how nice the weather in south Texas is right now.

That said, I am curious if bikes are or will be able to be customized. From the above shot, I'm guessing you ride (or wish you did ride) a Zipp-equipped Specialized. Should you elect to release this (and I do hope you do -- fee or not, this, as others have said, is levels above & beyond what is out there now -- and without requiring any special equipment, too!), selecting a type (road/TT/MTB) and/or brand of bike would be a nice feature. But would that then require licensing from a given manufacturer?

Again, nice work.

Exactly, the reason I end up on the trainer is almost never weather related, it's because it's 10pm by the time I can get a workout in!

As for the bike customization, it'll be pretty simple. Probably choose rim depth, pick from a few 'generic' frames, pick the color, and then advanced users could save out a logo they want plastered onto the bike downtube so you could brand it however you want. Maybe allow the same custom logos on the wheels. If people wanna make a Specialized bike with Zipp rims, then so be it, but I probably won't be able to provide those logos myself for obvious reasons. And yeah, that's my bike with rims I wish I had. :D
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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jmX wrote:
off242 wrote:
And yeah, that's my bike with rims I wish I had. :D

Release this (even with a freeware donation bar) and I think you'll get these wheels and a whole lot more. Great Job
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [camaleon] [ In reply to ]
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camaleon wrote:

at some point some body is going to offer what Trainer road has plus some more for less or free...

mark my word

Doesn't Golden Cheetah Version 3 do that ? Do you know what TR has that GC doesn't ?

I think what Trainer Road does offer however is training plans.
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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Very pretty.

You could integrate this with the Trainer Road folks. They could create a 3D mode along the lines of their current Sufferfest mode. You'd need enough communication between the apps to tell what the target power, heartrate, ... should be or be able to read their workout files. You may have to decide who can talk to the ANT stick directly. I don't know how well it handles multiple apps reading from it.

Just a thought.

-- Scott
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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This thing looks awesome. If you could add battle mode like in mario kart, this would be the greatest thing ever created.

One thing that would be really cool would be the ability to load a ride and race a ghost rider. So you could perform a TT and then race yourself..... or get a power profile from someone else (or a pro) and race them virtually. You might even be able to use google maps data to generate realistic terrain to match the course...although without feedback (e.g. computrainer), the hills would be sort of odd. Oh, I also recently learned that all of the street view cars also were running high resolution line scan lidars, so they have a full 3D map of everything imaged....imagine getting your hands on that data set.



sometimes you just have to eat the cake
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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How does course customization work? Is it static graphics or randomly generated based on the incline/decline of the course?
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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What would be cool is to use a ghost pacer as an interval start and stop.
You keep up with the pacer for intervals and the ghost pacer slows down when the interval is in the rest period.
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [AwesomePossum] [ In reply to ]
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AwesomePossum wrote:
any chance we could get a beta version to test out?

X2. Testing this out would be so cool!

This is an awesome initiative and whether you choose to combine with three TR or go solo, I hope it kicks off and you can quit your job like the rest of them!

Duathlete by choice?
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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Wow... nice work! Talk to the trainer road guys and see if they want to partner with you or just sell it to them and take their money :)

My only concern with something with that much graphics is the amount of power it needs to run it smooth on a pc or mac. I've been using trainer road all year and even though they kept graphics to minimum unless you are running sufferfest videos, I still from time to time loose ANT+ signal because my computer decide to do something else right when there is an attack in fight club and keeps me hanging at 150%+ FTP :(

I do like how you have the max and avg on speed, power, and cadence.


SmartBikeTrainers.com || YouTube || My Twitter
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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Very impressed! Congratulations. And this was done working part-time (even more impressive). This puts the full time team of developers of RealAxiom, CompuTrainer and Tacx software to shame.

I own a RealAxiom trainer and although it works fine (most of the time), the software is dull, buggy and not very flexible.
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [heliix] [ In reply to ]
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packetloss wrote:
How does course customization work? Is it static graphics or randomly generated based on the incline/decline of the course?


There is no course customization. All I have planned at the moment are a set of tracks through different scenery types. Right now the track I'm using is a 5km curvy loop through a forest, and is 100% generated by the code based on some random numbers.

VO2Matt wrote:
One thing that would be really cool would be the ability to load a ride and race a ghost rider. So you could perform a TT and then race yourself.....



heliix wrote:
What would be cool is to use a ghost pacer as an interval start and stop.
You keep up with the pacer for intervals and the ghost pacer slows down when the interval is in the rest period.


The ghost pacer is partially in there to race past performances, but I hadn't considered using it for intervals. I could see that maybe working nicely.

3Dealz wrote:
My only concern with something with that much graphics is the amount of power it needs to run it smooth on a pc or mac. I've been using trainer road all year and even though they kept graphics to minimum unless you are running sufferfest videos, I still from time to time loose ANT+ signal because my computer decide to do something else


It does take a decent amount of computer power, but I have it running on a $500 mac mini so the program does scale to a certain extent. Just how slow is your PC? It's going to be similar to PC games, if you want the fanciest highest res graphics you'll need a nice video card - however - slower graphics cards will still be usable at lower resolutions and with a few less features turned on.

Thanks for the other comments guys. I don't foresee merging with Trainer Road as I think we're going down very different paths towards different end results.
Last edited by: jmX: Apr 18, 12 18:22
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Re: New 3D Trainer Program w/pics (ANT+, MAC/PC) [jmX] [ In reply to ]
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Are you planning to make an Android phone version of the software? Just kidding... Maybe

Did you have to write part of it using assembly language? What did you use to write the programming i.e. Java or Visual C++?
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