So you believe and haven’t tested. Where have we heard that on ST before? Lol. Ok believe what you want and keep on running. It’s all the same to me and all good.

The Runn measures belt speed optically. It is calibrated while you are running on the belt. With multiple optical pickup points around the belt it accounts for the belt speed variance phenomena I mentioned above and u reiterated, I have a high end commercial treadmill that is regularly maintained by the professional that handles all gym equipment maintenance in our city.

No need to get defensive. We can just talk, right?

Think about it for a moment... what's the sampling rate of the Runn device? It all depends on how many stickers you've put on the belt, but it could be as little as once per belt revolution to as "often" as 3-4 times per belt revolution if you use 3-4 stickers as they recommend. Of course, I guess you could put 100 stickers on there and have a faster sampling rate (no idea if that would actually work), but at the recommended 3-4 sample points per belt revolution that's unlikely to be accurate enough to pick up the momentary drop in speed of the belt while your foot is in contact with it. Foot contact time while running is ~200-300ms. It's the belt speed while your foot is in contact with the belt that determines how fast you're running, not the average belt speed per revolution.

So, you are correct that I haven't tested your setup. I don't doubt that you're seeing a difference between what the Stryd footpod is reading and what your treadmill is reading. What I doubt is your conclusion that the treadmill is right and the Stryd is wrong.

Not to derail my own thread, but what does regular maintenance include? I think I probably should have my treadmill (True PS100) serviced - nothing is wrong (and that's a good thing), but I've now had it for 5+ years without a single issue.

For those that lube their treadmill belts, what do you use?

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Defensive? No. Not up for people to give me their beliefs unequivocally without testing or confirming things themselves.

So to talk. I put 10 equally spaced Runn stickers around my treadmill 135” belt. Running 7.5 miles an hour is 132” inches per second. So on my treadmill at this speed the belt goes thru a full rotation in under a second with the Runn sampling the belt speed 10 times in that rotation. Where do you calculate the gap is between the footfall speed reading from stryd and the Runn measuring average speed loaded/unloaded?

I’ve been on treadmills that you can hear ramp up and down with footfalls. I even put thousands of miles on a Landice I owned where this was obvious. This isn’t apparent with the current treadmill.

The gap is precisely in the fact that the Stryd is only concerned with your foot speed (acceleration) while the Runn (even with 10 data points per belt revolution) is still reporting *average* belt speed. The majority of the data in that average will be while the belt is unloaded.

I just had my treadmill serviced recently, and the tech used a tube of this lube. The service consisted of checking a lot of things like whether the belt was tracking straight, wearing evenly, as well as a lot of subjective things like how the motor sounded while running. In terms of what he actually did - he cleaned and lubed the deck and vacuumed the motor. His recommendation was to lube the deck every 500-600 miles (basically just squeeze the tube of lube evenly across the deck and then run on it for a few minutes to spread it evenly).

I’ll just agree to disagree with your conclusion.

Did your outside Stryd calibration check on the track show it was perfect?

Our tech generally just cleans and inspects ours. We did have some electronics issues at the last service which required swapping out some parts.

Fair enough.

Yes, track measurements are spot-on.

I replaced my TM belt a couple years ago with an aftermarket belt from TreadmillDoctor. The vendor recommends an annual relube and sells the necessary lube. I just buy what they sell. The original belt was a NO-LUBE belt. It had begun to drag noticably, after 15 years of service. The new lubed belt made a huge difference. It has been flawless since.

Cycling power meters don't actually measure power.

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Since we're just talking, I'll try to illustrate my point one more time and if you disagree with me that's totally cool but I'm a visual person. Here's the plot of my cadence during my ride in Zwift yesterday. You'll see that there are drops in cadence every so often, which happen to be every time I get out of the saddle to give my ass a bit of a break. Cadence when in the saddle is in the 88-90 range. Cadence out of the saddle is in the 50-60 range. the average cadence, as calculated by TP, for that whole duration is 86.

Now imagine that you had a device that could sample treadmill belt speed hundreds of times per second and that this plot, instead of measuring cadence, is measuring belt speed on the treadmill. Every time your foot makes contact you'd see a dip like this, and then the belt would accelerate back up to it's normal unloaded speed. The question then is, what to do with the data? If you simpy report the average, that doesn't give you any meaningful measure of what's going on while your feet are in contact with the belt. If, on the other hand, the sampling rate was high enough to measure these dips accurately *AND* the software identified these dips and reported the average speed of these dips (the speed of the belt while your foot is in contact with the belt) and excluded the speed of the belt while it was unloaded... then I'd believe that it was accurately reporting my run speed on the treadmill.

Barring that, I will humbly disagree with you that average belt speed is more accurate than a Stryd footpod. I'm sure your measurement methods are accurate and if I were to repeat your measurements I'm sure I'd see exactly the same thing - I just don't agree with the conclusion you reached.

I am wondering this as well! I posted on DC Rainmakers article but didn't get a response from anyone/NPE. I have contacted NPE in the past and they have been pretty helpful.

Neither measurement method is inherently more trustworthy than the other for "real running pace".

Stryd is essentially an inertial sensor, and is using an algorthm to infer running velocity. There are inertial differences between running on a treadmill and running on the road.

So, I would want to correlate with a third data source before I trusted either one. I don't have either device...just my garmin footpod. I didn't trust my footpod on the TM at first either. But, I've used HR and RPE to validate my pace on the TM.

From RPE/HR data, I know that my footpod is spot on at everyday pace. I know that the faster I run on the TM, the footpod begins to exagerate my pace. So, my TM readout says 7:05, and the footpod may say I'm running 6:15 mpm, but from HR/RPE or my time-to-exhaustion I know its more like 6:35. that includes jacking up the incline to account for the "wind" effect I'd get outside.

I was intrigued by the ruun so I called NPE. They said it has been reported to work with a woodway and that the space between slats doesn't cause bad readings (which is what I was worried about). They did say that the white lines don't stick as well on the hard rubber slats of the woodway but you can glue them down or even paint them on. Tempting.

I think it may have been DC Rainmaker that mentioned using white-out instead of the stickers. It sounds like you could use a white ink Sharpie, or anything that makes a solid white mark, as long as the optical sensor will read it.

Your higher-end True definitely will need less regular maintenance than cheaper ones like Sole F80s which cost less than 2x as much.

You probably should check with True as to what kind of lube they recommend. For the Soles ans most $2k treadmills, most silicon based treadmill lubes sold on Amazon work fine - get the one that has a long floppy tube dispenser so you can get the lube to the middle of the TM deck without having to loosen the belt.

Some higher end TMs autolube and these extra lubes might not be recommended for them. Or they may have special deck materials that might work better with specific lubricants.

For my cheaper Sole F80, the main maintenance is periodic lubing of the deck, and if you really want to do a good job, checking for loose or corroding frame and hardware screws and parts. The typical TM belt is good for like 20k miles.

I have it on my Woodway. 5 stickers spread out every 12 slats for more accuracy.

Is yours not already Bluetooth connected?

It sticks fine, but it is best to have several stickers. I have it on my Woodway, but as an added tool. Mine already connects for speed to Zwift and exports elevation to Strava / Garmin via Zwift

What purpose does calibrating the Runn with your treadmill serve? Is it so that the speed measured by the Runn matches the speed reported by the treadmill? If that is the case, then wouldn't users be better off using the factor default calibration. I want to know my true speed, not the speed reported by my treadmill which may be, and probably is, inaccurate.

Agreed about true speed. I'm also curious why people override the factory calibration.

Calibration is useful for a quicker install as it zeroes out incline but to keep the factory calibrated speed you will need to determine beforehand at what treadmill speed your Runn reports 5 mph. I hope NPE separates speed and incline calibration. It would be great if they created a calibration App.

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Nanoo Nanoo

I am not using Zwift but I think I would like this over my Garmin Foot Pod. Will this transmit to my Garmin GPS the same way that the foot pod does (as a foot pod Ant+ device on my watch)? Or is this only used for tracking speed to apps?

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right now mine was transmitting to my fenix 6 over ANT+ but lacked elevation. support said this should be coming soon. i connected to zwift with BT and got elevation/incline to record

I just hooked up my Runn and tested it by setting my treadmill to 10.0 kph. Zwift was showing speeds ranging between 16-17 kph. It appears that the Runn is transmitting speed as kph to Zwift, but then Zwift thinks it’s mph and coverts it to kph. Has anybody else seen this, and if so what did you do to correct the problem？

I just set up my new RUNN unit on my older Woodway DESMO-S treadmill (ie no ANT+ or Bluetooth on this older treadmill).
I can use my Garmin Forerunner to read cadence and speed pace from the RUNN, but as others have mentioned the inclination data doesn't seem to be transmitted via ANT+.

I'm not interested in paying a monthly Zwift fee. Are there others apps or methods that will record speed/pace, cadence, inclination from the RUNN unit?
I'm basically looking to record the data from my treadmill runs and track it within Trainingpeaks or WKO+, so .fit format would be ideal.

Best
Seth