What, the RD speaks for what 99% of the AGers feel, how could he be that honest?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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wow.... jerk

Edit: I'd bet he'd care if Lance showed up

It's true, sorry people mainly follow pros at ironmann events and other 70.3 and up, the international distance events don't really get me following

You and I both know that the Pro's draw very little to an event. By and large folks do not enter or decide to not enter based on who the Pro's attending are. There is almost no value add with a pro field - that is just a fact. The other fact is that by the time most of the AG'ers are even getting into their walking legs - many of the pro's are already showering and having a bowl of muesli.

It used to be fun to sit at the finish line at midnight - there would be the cute old guys, heart patients, and some wonderful stories.....now it is sorta like the line dance at a wedding party....non stop action of guys who could not break into a jog - yet, can do a cartwheel back flip at the finish line....odd.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I never said I disagreed, but I'm worried that other RD's will adopt his attitude. I have experienced both levels of competition, and I think it has more to do with the organizers failing to capitalize rather than pros simply failing to add value.

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This guy will fit right in at the WTC
corporate
douchebag

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Except he wants Lance to race...

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Not to be argumentative...and as a person who has paid for Pro's to come to my events....


What race did YOU sign up for because "pro XYZ" was going to be racing? I ran the numbers six ways from Sunday, the only ROI I had was Heather Haviland bringing in quite a few women because she was going to be there. The men - well, everyone likes a meet and greet but ROI requires someone to pull out there wallet - when they otherwise would not have. I have never not once ever heard of a MOP AG entering a race because some other guy way way down the road went pee in the same water.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Actually Jack, John Korff is a very nice and respectable guy. Lets face it we love this sport but to watch it it is pretty boring. Hell i can only take about 30minutes of watching the tour. But then again i really dislike watching any sport other then boxing for to long. I would rather be out doing them.

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I am a pro (I've qualified, just haven't filled out the paperwork; raced pro last year), so I make decisions based on where I want to go, but for the average person, meet and greets aren't enough obviously. What I'm getting at (and I have no evidence of this whatsoever ) I think that the value in having pros race is largely untapped due to RDs lack of capitalization.

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How? Most AG's can not name more than one or two Pro's.


Myself, I would be more interested in hanging out with Joe Bonness or Dick Hoyt (if I was an AG'er and into such things). I know many pro's first hand, and like I said, I paid for their travel and costs to bring them to events. It is neat - I mean, watching Chris McDonald destroy a course is cool as shit to watch - but, most of the AG's only know he is there because of the lead motorcycle.

So, brainstorming - what you you suggest RD's for small to medium sized races do to better position the marketing power of Pro folks?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

As a race director I am going to somewhat disagree with both your comment and John Korff's. I provide an elite race category with prize money at and olympic distance race, and even do a small amount of prize money for elites at the sprint race the day before. Sure, maybe it's true that age groupers don't buy a race entry based on the pros who are competing...they don't get to start with them in the same wave anyway, so it's not like it's head to head racing or test of abilities. But most that I see are pleased not only to have an opportunity to watch and be on the same course, but also to interact with them before and after the event, ask questions, etc. 99% of the elite athletes I see at races are friendly and great ambassadors for our sport and an asset to an event. Regardless of whether you think they are the draw or not, they are amazing to watch, they are wonderful to host to a race, and represent the pinnacle of our sport.

Now for my race director rant which is clearly my own personal opinion...I hate it when self-professed "elite" age groupers think they should start in the elite wave and have equal access to prize money. I know some races do that, especially if it's under the USAT $5K threshold limit, but we don't. We think the elite athletes have earned the right to compete against their peers for the prize money. If for no other reason than they earned the right to their racing license.

Elite athletes deserve some respect for making a living at their chosen sport as a profession, whether they do it part time or full time, or have big money sponsorships, or not. It's hard work with little payback.

Shameless plug...come and participate (If you are an elite athlete who wants to compete contact us)...http://www.finishlineproduction.com/...uz/TriSantaCruz.html

Have you ever ran an ROI on the Pro/Elite and what your costs there in are? Really, it is almost impossible to come up with a firm number of course - and you are spot on about them being great ambassadors once they are in transition hanging out with all the folks who paid to play....my point, how can we get MORE people to pay to play based on the fact that there is an eltie wave?

I think that Frank Days "Middle of the Pack Challange" was brilliant and with no doubt had a great ROI and a good amount of interest. "Prems" and what not are only attractive to the pointy end.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Me too.! You know what cool? It is when you are at wits end with you youngster and joes wife PM's you and tells you to relax because it sounds like you have a lil joe boness on your hands. Or taking a elevator and getting in a discussion for a half hour with the Blazemans parents!! But alas i also do like meeting and talking with a pro here and there. I would say 99% of them are very cool and humble people. They share training help and talk openely with all. Not like some pro athletes. What needs to be done is better purses for pros to compete in. Then maybe people will start watching and the media start covering. WTC shot themselves in the foot when they stuck by their rules. I think we can all say they showed no favortism to LA and it cost them .

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T-shirt, finishers medal, some post race food...not much to calculate. Each year I have a number of entries for comp - AG and elite and it's all factored into the equation.

however, you are correct, most races are not capitalized or recruit sponsorship for their elite athletes. That's the bigger issue.

I'm not surprised. What do you expect from a HBS grad? I've actually talked with John Korff about this, and I absolutely get where he is coming from. Not saying I agree, but I also have a hard time really disagreeing.

I think he is, generally, right. Which is unfortunate. And I've said to John - and Jack Carress and plenty of other race directors - that is a situation that could be changed so that everyone benefits. In other words, if people did care who showed up, you might be able to make even more money. And so would I.

If pros aren't celebrities, that's leaving money on the table. Now, it's certainly a change in business model and a change in the way of thinking to have to care about pros showing up. And you also have to find pros that actually want to care about having at your race. But, ultimately, the current status quo is an opportunity.

I don't disagree with John, but I also refuse to race the NYC Tri because of that position. It's fair for him to take his position. And I think it's fair that I won't do that race and, when asked, I tell people why I won't do that race. I don't think he'll be bothered by it. And, ultimately, that's certainly a tenable position for both of us.

But is it the best position long term? I don't think so.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Jordan are you fast enough to be competitive in a olympic ? :0)

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the last time I did race NYC, I was 6th:
Male Participants
1. Greg Bennett 1:46:31
2. Stuart Hayes 1:47:34
3. Andy Potts 1:49:25
4. Paul Tichelaar 1:49:51
5. Brent McMahon 1:50:49
6. Jordan Rapp 1:52:22
7. Andrew Yoder 1:53:48
8. Andrew Starykowicz 1:54:04
9. Dominic Gillen 1:55:58
10. Holden Comeau 1:56:11

I'll let someone else decide if that was being "competitive."

In my opinion, since they only pay five deep in NYC, the answer was no.

I guess we'll find out next weekend in Minneapolis if anything's changed.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Lol Jordan that was supposed to be in pink!!! Just sittin here in the hotel waiting for tommorows race being bored. Can only people watch so much. Damn wish the family was here. On the bright side saved about 200.00 just on dinner tonight not having them here :0)

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I would take no offense it wasn't a sarcastic question. I have no delusions about what I am and am not good at. I don't mind someone pointing out the obvious...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Btw......you beat me by 1hr and about 35 minutes that year :0)

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Was meant jokingly not sarcastic or seeriuosly.

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Is it not interesting that IM Lake Tahoe filled in 19 hours, and there is not one pro that anyone know is going to do it.

Now, I have nothing against "Pro's". They should be thanking us AGer's since we basically pay their way.



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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Here was the pro rack at 7:45pm, with just 1 hour left to rack your bike. I asked the volunteers if the pro's were allowed to rack their bikes in the morning as well but they didn't know. I assume yes.