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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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rmt wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
rmt wrote:
Are you doing this testing in the aero position that you will race in?


A little but not much. The focus is trying to do the same testing. We are not worrying about bike fit at the moment,

AND again, some of you have the flexibility, mental strength, to stay in the aero bars for training. I found, since I bike 90 minutes a day, 7 days a week, my back could not handle this. During a race I can a lot more, but just not in training.

So yes, it is easy to pick apart that maybe what I am doing is not 100% perfect, but it sure is a lot more effort and data than I have ever read on ST on this topic.
But, at the end, who knows. But unless one attempts the journey, even if not perfect, one might never find something new.


I think you need to ask yourself why you are doing this 'testing'. If it is to have fun, and maybe learn a few things along the way, then that is absolutely cool, no problem.

If, however, the aim of your testing is to try and get faster whilst racing then I would suggest that what you are currently doing is completely wasting your time.

Again, that is your opinion and who knows, you might be right. But what if you are wrong?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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rmt wrote:
RowToTri wrote:

2) When people try to give you thoughtful advice and you just brush it aside by implying that they are taking things way too seriously and you're just having fun, and you are just going to do what you are going to do, then why ASK people for help in the first place? If you want to document your process without pesky interruptions by the Slowtwitch Hoi Polloi, then just post updates on what you are doing and tell people to keep their opinions to themselves. People will read it anyway. I promise.


I saw a definition this morning - it went something like this:

Askhole: noun; a person who constantly asks for advice and then does the opposite of what you tell them.

ETA - and before you get defensive Dave, that wasn't strictly aimed at you, I just saw that definition this morning and RowToTri's comments reminded me about it.

Clearly you are not an engineer. I take inputs, consider the merits, trying something, analyze, collect more data, consider, trying something, repeat, repeat.

I have no idea why you keep attack and say I am doing the opposite since all these inputs are folks OPIONIONS. NOT science.

I guess Edison was a jerk in many folks opinions since he kept trying things he was told would not work. ETc.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not wrong, and the reason I'm not wrong is that aerodynamics is the main thing that you need to overcome when riding a bike. You may well be able to produce more power on 200mm cranks, you may not, it's not relevant at this stage, as the differences in the power that you can produce WILL be less than the differences in wattage required between sitting up and being in aero.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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rmt wrote:
I'm not wrong, and the reason I'm not wrong is that aerodynamics is the main thing that you need to overcome when riding a bike. You may well be able to produce more power on 200mm cranks, you may not, it's not relevant at this stage, as the differences in the power that you can produce WILL be less than the differences in wattage required between sitting up and being in aero.

Dah, who ever said that is not true?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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[/quote] My rubbish over the years sure has given me decent race results compared to most[/quote]

But not because of your bike according to dozens of your own posts...in fact, in spite of it according to you....isn't that why you are going through this exercise now?
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Sep 27, 17 6:39
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Do you actually read what people post? I actually stated that I had not aimed that comment at you, I merely quoted what I saw, yet you come back stating that I am attacking you? (though I accept that it could have caused offence and if so I apologise).

But I'm sorry, when I state that the differences between the power you require in aero vs sat up will be greater than the differences in power you can output between short and long cranks that isn't my opinion. It's a fact. Once you are in aero, by all means look at crank length and if 200's are better for you, I quite agree you should go with them, but you are approaching this in the wrong order.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
rmt wrote:
I'm not wrong, and the reason I'm not wrong is that aerodynamics is the main thing that you need to overcome when riding a bike. You may well be able to produce more power on 200mm cranks, you may not, it's not relevant at this stage, as the differences in the power that you can produce WILL be less than the differences in wattage required between sitting up and being in aero.


Dah, who ever said that is not true?

So you agree with this?
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
My rubbish over the years sure has given me decent race results compared to most[/quote]

But not because of your bike according to dozens of your own posts...in fact inspire of it according to you....isn't that why you are going through this exercise now?[/quote]
Yep, and have never said anything different but whats the point? Are you not all trying to consider improvements in our weakest part during the off season?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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rmt wrote:
Do you actually read what people post? I actually stated that I had not aimed that comment at you, I merely quoted what I saw, yet you come back stating that I am attacking you? (though I accept that it could have caused offence and if so I apologise).

But I'm sorry, when I state that the differences between the power you require in aero vs sat up will be greater than the differences in power you can output between short and long cranks that isn't my opinion. It's a fact. Once you are in aero, by all means look at crank length and if 200's are better for you, I quite agree you should go with them, but you are approaching this in the wrong order.

I agree have never disagreed about aero.

And I respect your opinion on how YOU would go about things. But why oh why does that mean others cannot consider other ways? There are ALWAYS 10 ways to skin a cat.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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rmt wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
rmt wrote:
I'm not wrong, and the reason I'm not wrong is that aerodynamics is the main thing that you need to overcome when riding a bike. You may well be able to produce more power on 200mm cranks, you may not, it's not relevant at this stage, as the differences in the power that you can produce WILL be less than the differences in wattage required between sitting up and being in aero.


Dah, who ever said that is not true?


So you agree with this?

Why not? But I am actually, over time, going to try and test with data about this, rather than just be told the answer when folks have NO data to prove their point.

As I said, I over the years have NEVER seen a person do a bunch of testing with different crank lengths, fittings, HR, power and they compare pre and post race results.
That is my goal during the next year. And, if it impacts my running off the bike.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
rmt wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
rmt wrote:
I'm not wrong, and the reason I'm not wrong is that aerodynamics is the main thing that you need to overcome when riding a bike. You may well be able to produce more power on 200mm cranks, you may not, it's not relevant at this stage, as the differences in the power that you can produce WILL be less than the differences in wattage required between sitting up and being in aero.


Dah, who ever said that is not true?


So you agree with this?


Why not? But I am actually, over time, going to try and test with data about this, rather than just be told the answer when folks have NO data to prove their point.

As I said, I over the years have NEVER seen a person do a bunch of testing with different crank lengths, fittings, HR, power and they compare pre and post race results.
That is my goal during the next year. And, if it impacts my running off the bike.

The reason you have never seen this data is because if you change more than one thing in any study, how do you know which changed your results. I really applaud you wanting to examine the effect of these things, but you have to do them one at a time, in the order of significance. Crank length is unquestionably NOT the most significant AT THIS STAGE if you are not testing in aero. BUT, as I said earlier and you haven't yet answered, if you are just aiming to have fun and not try and get quicker, that if great, and I hope you enjoy yourself.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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rmt wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
rmt wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
rmt wrote:
I'm not wrong, and the reason I'm not wrong is that aerodynamics is the main thing that you need to overcome when riding a bike. You may well be able to produce more power on 200mm cranks, you may not, it's not relevant at this stage, as the differences in the power that you can produce WILL be less than the differences in wattage required between sitting up and being in aero.


Dah, who ever said that is not true?


So you agree with this?


Why not? But I am actually, over time, going to try and test with data about this, rather than just be told the answer when folks have NO data to prove their point.

As I said, I over the years have NEVER seen a person do a bunch of testing with different crank lengths, fittings, HR, power and they compare pre and post race results.
That is my goal during the next year. And, if it impacts my running off the bike.


The reason you have never seen this data is because if you change more than one thing in any study, how do you know which changed your results. I really applaud you wanting to examine the effect of these things, but you have to do them one at a time, in the order of significance. Crank length is unquestionably NOT the most significant AT THIS STAGE if you are not testing in aero. BUT, as I said earlier and you haven't yet answered, if you are just aiming to have fun and not try and get quicker, that if great, and I hope you enjoy yourself.

Again, I respect that is your opinion, but others I respect have a different opinion.

Your question does not even deserve an answer it is so over the top.

We will see down the road what happens.

A

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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I'm just going leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQGgaI-BcI4

"It's been four hours...the cows can tape something by now!!"
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [geetee] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you!!!!! That was awesome! I'm sitting on my hands from now on!!
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [geetee] [ In reply to ]
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geetee wrote:
I'm just going leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQGgaI-BcI4

"It's been four hours...the cows can tape something by now!!"

I need to bookmark that. Has many, many applications in real life.

Also useful as reminder on how VCRs work.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [geetee] [ In reply to ]
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geetee wrote:
I'm just going leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQGgaI-BcI4

"It's been four hours...the cows can tape something by now!!"

Perfect.

Can't wait for the cows to post their Velotron crank length test results.
/pink


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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Dave is just starving for attention. He'll specialize next year in Aquathons. It's pretty comical watching from a distance as he plays...it's like watching a 3 year old ask, why?, why?, why? again and again. Is he really this crazy, or just laughing to himself as he plays others? That's the real question in any of his threads.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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ggeiger wrote:
Dave is just starving for attention. He'll specialize next year in Aquathons. It's pretty comical watching from a distance as he plays...it's like watching a 3 year old ask, why?, why?, why? again and again. Is he really this crazy, or just laughing to himself as he plays others? That's the real question in any of his threads.

Man, you hit the nail on the head. But you cannot seem to look away can you. :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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At the start of this thread Dave I actually thought that you were looking for constructive help on the best way to make progress with your cycling, which is why I contributed.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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rmt wrote:
At the start of this thread Dave I actually thought that you were looking for constructive help on the best way to make progress with your cycling, which is why I contributed.

History repeats itself. People try to help and he still plays the game. He needs stronger meds.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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With how long he’s been on this forum if he hasn’t figured out his bike fit by now based on everything on this site it’s just not worth the effort.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
My rubbish over the years sure has given me decent race results compared to most


But not because of your bike according to dozens of your own posts...in fact inspire of it according to you....isn't that why you are going through this exercise now?[/quote]

Yep, and have never said anything different but whats the point? Are you not all trying to consider improvements in our weakest part during the off season?[/quote]



Wait, so here in this thread you are willing to admit that there is an '' off season '',
yet in this thread - http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread
you condescendingly said, " Off season, what off season. I just keep training like I do, all year long. '' ..... ??





And you wonder why 95% of folks call you out . Well...
Last edited by: sixt3: Sep 26, 17 23:18
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [sixt3] [ In reply to ]
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sixt3 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
My rubbish over the years sure has given me decent race results compared to most


But not because of your bike according to dozens of your own posts...in fact inspire of it according to you....isn't that why you are going through this exercise now?


Yep, and have never said anything different but whats the point? Are you not all trying to consider improvements in our weakest part during the off season?


Wait, so here in this thread you are willing to admit that there is an '' off season '',
yet in this thread - http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread
you condescendingly said, " Off season, what off season. I just keep training like I do, all year long. '' ..... ??

And you wonder why 95% of folks call you out . Well...


Thanks for highlighting his blatant trolling. Not nearly as genuine and pleasant a person as he professes to be. He's also pissed off tgat Dan isn't engaging in his fit threads...
Last edited by: Jctriguy: Sep 27, 17 6:03
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
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I'd argue that bad data is more damaging than no data.

And there is plenty of data from actual research that says crank length is basically meaningless from a power production point of view. I think consensus is that crank length is a fit parameter to help get comfortable and aero.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [rmt] [ In reply to ]
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rmt wrote:
At the start of this thread Dave I actually thought that you were looking for constructive help on the best way to make progress with your cycling, which is why I contributed.

I continue to look for inputs. BUT, that is totally different than trying to be told there is only one way to do something, or only they know the correct way.
Constructive help is NOT insulting something, telling them they are wrong, etc. It is being open minded that they might be different ways to get to a result.
And yes, sometimes one might be wrong, others right. Who cares. It is the process of learning.

For me, when someone tries to tell me I am wrong, I just love to see if I can prove them wrong. I have nothing to lose in that persons mind.

So all I can offer is I listen to all the inputs. But I did say ALL. I try stuff, see what happens, and adjust. For me, just trying shorter cranks is a BIG deal, and a lot of it is from reading ST posts.

So, please, keep the ideas coming, and lets see what happens.

Right now my knee is hurting some so I am thinking of not going under 60 rpm's in my tests anymore.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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