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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Okay, based on ST inputs, yea, I do listen :), I tried my 10 mile TT rides this morning putting the seat much closer to where I have ridden for years.
So for the last 3 months, based on my fit, I have been riding with the seat around 100mm behind the BB, and yep, real slack.

So this morning, I moved the seat to 20mm behind the BB, kept the bars at my 495, which I like not being super stretched out.
Used the same gearing, etc. What was interesting is it was much easier to spin the 150mm cranks. I could have pushed a 14 gear, but no way could
I do that for an hour at 75 rpm, so I left it at a 16 gear with around 80 rpm.

Will try to get a video with this new fit.

So, is this what I should have expected?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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You really can’t answer this question??? My 8 year old could figure it out.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
You really can’t answer this question??? My 8 year old could figure it out.

I bet he has a higher IQ than me too.

Merry Christmas

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe he does but I think it’s the application of common sense that makes the difference.

Christmas is over. Happy New Year.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Maybe he does but I think it’s the application of common sense that makes the difference.

Christmas is over. Happy New Year.

I seem to always be behind :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
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iamuwere wrote:
h2ofun wrote:


You probably are right but not be as much fun. At the end of the day it is about having fun. I am okay if i never get faster on the bike. Folks still have to beat me to the finish. Am in my ag there are not a lot of folks still able to race


Again I find myself writing:


WTF?


Do even know what your point is anymore?



Dozens of times you have suggested no one, no one! is recommending shorter cranks (despite all of the recommendations in your first fit post about how you needed short cranks)(despite all of the articles and fit threads on ST recommending shorter cranks).

No one No One! Is recommending different cadences (despite even rubbish articles on GTN suggesting testing cadences)(despite all of the threads talking about cadence on this site)


Now you are still ignoring fit advice from people that make really good recommendations and still try to do this fit on a bike they doesn’t really have the ability to replicate the proper tribune postion with that slack as could be seat tube angle.


And now! I don’t even care if I am faster despite all of you posts to the contrary prior.

Seriously, you are so lost in that disheveled den of weird trainers you don’t even know your pint anymore (nor seemingly ever did-reference all of the posts trying to clarify what it was you were testing in the first eight pages of this thread).


“I don’t even care.†LOL


Ps-I’m in line at Disney. You should try it.

Wow what ride are you on. I really want to go to Disney so could anyone please recommend places to stay and what rides to do? It would be a great help thanks...
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Boo, I just got the flu. I guess the positive is no training for a while :(

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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When things are not going perfectly, this is a great speech to keep things in perspective

https://www.facebook.com/...os/1646943548780814/

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, 3 hours of exercise yesterday, and today I can barely get out of bed. Hoping others do not get this nasty flu, and I had the flu shot.

So, found enough energy to do another fit video. I moved the seat from -100mm behind the BB to -20mm behind the BB. Seat 870mm. Cranks 145mm.
Seat nose to end of pads, 495mm. 110mm drop.

So, does this roll my hips more forward compared to the previous video?



Not sure I posted before, but here is a FIT that was done by Ves when I bought a bike from him years ago.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Presume our testing shows that for any given crank length we find a drop in power as we increase drop. How would they make the decision as to which way to go?


Frank Day

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Presume our testing shows that for any given crank length we find a drop in power as we increase drop. How would they make the decision as to which way to go?


Frank Day

How are you measuring gain/drop in power ?

You said you improved 20 watts with shorter cranks. What was this based off ?
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Presume our testing shows that for any given crank length we find a drop in power as we increase drop. How would they make the decision as to which way to go?


Frank Day
They would, of course, choose whichever crank length was the most ‘fun’ because they don’t care about going faster and results don’t matter...
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Presume our testing shows that for any given crank length we find a drop in power as we increase drop. How would they make the decision as to which way to go?


Frank Day

That is because ye are using the wrong pedalling technique.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun as Frank Day using Dave's account wrote:
Presume our testing shows that for any given crank length we find a drop in power as we increase drop. How would they make the decision as to which way to go?


Frank Day
The sole purpose of increasing drop is to achieve a more aerodynamic position. Any loss in power as you increase drop may be offset by an improvement in aerodynamic drag coefficient, such that Dave actually goes faster over a real road even though he's using less power. You know, greater efficiency.

I've noted before that all you're really doing with this exercise is to optimize his position for the Velotron, from a power and heart rate perspective. What really matters, though, is to optimize his position for speed on a real bike on a real road.

Side note: If Dave has a bad back, what's he doing to mitigate that? Yoga? Strength and flexibility exercises? Working with a physiotherapist? Gotta take care of the basics before trying to ramp up performance.

Less is more.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Big Endian] [ In reply to ]
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Big Endian wrote:
h2ofun as Frank Day using Dave's account wrote:
Presume our testing shows that for any given crank length we find a drop in power as we increase drop. How would they make the decision as to which way to go?


Frank Day

The sole purpose of increasing drop is to achieve a more aerodynamic position. Any loss in power as you increase drop may be offset by an improvement in aerodynamic drag coefficient, such that Dave actually goes faster over a real road even though he's using less power. You know, greater efficiency.

I've noted before that all you're really doing with this exercise is to optimize his position for the Velotron, from a power and heart rate perspective. What really matters, though, is to optimize his position for speed on a real bike on a real road.

Side note: If Dave has a bad back, what's he doing to mitigate that? Yoga? Strength and flexibility exercises? Working with a physiotherapist? Gotta take care of the basics before trying to ramp up performance.

Just FYI, most old folks lose flexibility, period. I do back exercises like 3 days a week.

Another reason I would never have a coach. I do not need someone, young, telling me that one does not need to have old age stuff. I would need a coach who understands that as one gets older, one needs to changes things like bike fit, to optimize what a person has, not scold them for not being able to do what a young person can.

This is why so many folks just do not get it. We all compete in Age brackets. Very very few will ever ever achieve the type of results I have over the years. Most will not
even be able to race if they get close to my age. I could care less about aerodynamic drag. What I want is the best I can be for my age and issues, comfortable, and still being able to run off the bike. If this means I sit up in the entire race, so be it. I still end up at the finish line much sooner than most folks my age do, even if they "beat" me on the bike leg.

So, would love to get inputs on how to optimize riding, when one has some limitations that are not going to go away. Any inputs?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
So, would love to get inputs on how to optimize riding, when one has some limitations that are not going to go away. Any inputs?

My optimization was to minimize aerodynamic drag to help offset my limitations...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Warbird] [ In reply to ]
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Warbird wrote:
h2ofun wrote:

So, would love to get inputs on how to optimize riding, when one has some limitations that are not going to go away. Any inputs?


My optimization was to minimize aerodynamic drag to help offset my limitations...


x2 as mentionned in the other thread.

outsmarting father time requires some tricks
Last edited by: marcag: Jan 1, 18 11:16
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:


What I want is the best I can be for my age and issues, comfortable, and still being able to run off the bike. If this means I sit up in the entire race, so be it.


But why do you have to sit up when as you said you can ride a 10 mile TT without any back pain.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Just got this link sent to me. Interesting.

http://www.bikesmithdesign.com/Short_Cranks/rom.html

Loved this comment. "Because the more time spent with less bend in the knee the more power you will get.". Makes me think how my 200mm cranks worked


Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:

So, would love to get inputs on how to optimize riding, when one has some limitations that are not going to go away. Any inputs?

Recognize that most of the things you classify as limitations don't matter all that much when trying to emulate world class bike riders. The bulk of the athleticism required concerns pushing the pedals repeatedly hard, not sitting on the bike properly.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [perfection] [ In reply to ]
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perfection wrote:
h2ofun wrote:



What I want is the best I can be for my age and issues, comfortable, and still being able to run off the bike. If this means I sit up in the entire race, so be it.



But why do you have to sit up when as you said you can ride a 10 mile TT without any back pain.

That is not what I mean. I did say, if this means. I am not there today, but I see plenty of older folks who cannot bend over at all on their bikes, so if I am lucky to be alive
and race older, there will come a time that bending over will not be possible.

But I am saying that now, getting a flat back is just not in the cards, as much as I would love my back to be younger.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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FindinFreestyle wrote:
h2ofun wrote:


So, would love to get inputs on how to optimize riding, when one has some limitations that are not going to go away. Any inputs?


Recognize that most of the things you classify as limitations don't matter all that much when trying to emulate world class bike riders. The bulk of the athleticism required concerns pushing the pedals repeatedly hard, not sitting on the bike properly.

So so true!! And I am not trying to emulate world class bike riders. I am still trying to be the best triathlete I can be, which means running maybe more important than the bike, and I know folks think this when I pass them on the run :)

But your point about pushing hard on the pedals is a key thing I have noticed with the fit changes I am playing with. Meaning, with the real long cranks and high rpm, I spend lots of time bending and unbending the knee and spinning.
With a better bike fit, meaning, shorter cranks, higher seat, and lower RPM, I seem to be able to push more and end up with faster times as I have seen on my Martis TT. Now, does this mean 150's are better than 175's? That is the 10K question
that I will leave to Frank to guide me. I do enough with shorter cranks the ability to get them spinning faster than longer cranks. The shorter stuff does not load me knee up as much. So if I find same type results on 150 vs 175's, I am trying to
see if there is any reason not to go with the positives of the 150's

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Another thread on crank length discussion

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
perfection wrote:
h2ofun wrote:



What I want is the best I can be for my age and issues, comfortable, and still being able to run off the bike. If this means I sit up in the entire race, so be it.



But why do you have to sit up when as you said you can ride a 10 mile TT without any back pain.


That is not what I mean. I did say, if this means. I am not there today, but I see plenty of older folks who cannot bend over at all on their bikes, so if I am lucky to be alive
and race older, there will come a time that bending over will not be possible.

But I am saying that now, getting a flat back is just not in the cards, as much as I would love my back to be younger.



Did you ever consider the fact that aerobars use a more forward position of the rider on a bike, this extends the range of the dead spot sector at TDC, making it much more difficult to get your foot over the top if you are using the circular pedalling style and this difficulty would be magnified even further by the frequent use of PC's. How many of the worlds best cyclists are using the circular style with their aerobars.
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Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [perfection] [ In reply to ]
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perfection wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
perfection wrote:
h2ofun wrote:



What I want is the best I can be for my age and issues, comfortable, and still being able to run off the bike. If this means I sit up in the entire race, so be it.



But why do you have to sit up when as you said you can ride a 10 mile TT without any back pain.


That is not what I mean. I did say, if this means. I am not there today, but I see plenty of older folks who cannot bend over at all on their bikes, so if I am lucky to be alive
and race older, there will come a time that bending over will not be possible.

But I am saying that now, getting a flat back is just not in the cards, as much as I would love my back to be younger.




Did you ever consider the fact that aerobars use a more forward position of the rider on a bike, this extends the range of the dead spot sector at TDC, making it much more difficult to get your foot over the top if you are using the circular pedalling style and this difficulty would be magnified even further by the frequent use of PC's. How many of the worlds best cyclists are using the circular style with their aerobars.

I will let Frank talk on this, but I do strongly believe the use of Powercranks has helped my run, both times and not being hurt. I do not believe using powercranks has hurt my bike but how would one prove one way or another?

And why is it such much harder to get ones foot over the top?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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