Found too short?

But is there data? :)

Honestly, I would love to hear from folks on what the shortest cranks they have race on are? And what positives or negatives they found.
I have no desire to reinvent the wheel.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Now I did trip and fall flat on my shoulder running on Saturday. I hope I did not break anything. Sure hurts and the bruise keeps getting larger.
I wonder if riding shorter cranks is making me more of a klutz? Going out for my long run in a few minutes as soon as it gets some light outside,
rather than the pitch black I am seeing out the window.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Seems that one of things I am seeing is a relationship, for me, between rpm and power. If I slow the RPM's down, like 70 to 80, I put out a lot more power compared to if I start to spin at lets say over 85 rpm. Is this expected?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Same happens to me,find it easier to keep power smoother,and higher and also heart rate is commonly lower too.

TINSTAAFL

Great, at least I may not be totally dreaming this. I had thought that maybe 70 rpm was a good target, but maybe thinking 80 is better.

What is your target RPM for the flats?

Thanks

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Okay for this old person, what does this mean?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

H2Ofun wrote: "Great, at least I may not be totally dreaming this. I had thought that maybe 70 rpm was a good target, but maybe thinking 80 is better.”

Dave, it is all about pedal speed. As we shorten the cranks your best RPM will increase to keep your pedal speed near your optimum. If it is true that one will run better off the bike if they ride at a higher RPM we are approaching that goal as your “optimum" pedal speed at this power (as near as I can surmise) on 130 cranks will come with a cadence of 88. We will see if you can see this when you do your runs.

Frank Day

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

FindingFrestyel wrote: “TINSTAAFL”

Nothing free here. Just using knowledge to correct hidden inefficiencies. Improve efficiency, improve power. He (and all of you) have done the training you have. Dave has many years under his belt. Power improvements are really hard to achieve in an athlete like Dave. This is just an attempt to get the most out his well trained muscles. And, the other thing that isn’t “free” here is, if you haven’t noticed, Dave is working really hard to make these changes. It seems to be working. The rest of you could do something similar I am sure - unless, of course, you listen to the experts who hang out here. Won’t know who is right unless you try. :-)

Frank Day

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I had a good time on my long run this morning, even though it was real cold, after riding 135mm cranks.

Wow, so you are saying I should try and keep cadence on 130's at 80? What should my cadence at 135's have been? When I went like at 85ish on the 135's, I saw my power go down, so I backed off back to 80 where I saw and felt the power go back up.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

H2Ofun wrote: "Wow, so you are saying I should try and keep cadence on 130's at 80? What should my cadence at 135's have been? When I went like at 85ish on the 135's, I saw my power go down, so I backed off back to 80 where I saw and felt the power go back up.”

No, I said 88 on 130’s You were about perfect on the 135’s with a cadence of 82. Both will give you a pedal speed of about 1.2 m/sec.

Most of the people who are pedaling too fast should keep the cadence the same as they shorten their cranks as that slows the pedal speed and should result in improvement. You are pretty near an optimum pedal speed now for this power for you. If you keep the cadence the same as you shorten your cranks your pedal speed will soon be far away from optimum and it will hurt your performance. We did all that early work to find your best pedal speed. Now we need to try to keep you there as we make these changes.

Frank Day

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

In case anyone was confused as to what actual peacocks fornicating looked like...

Thanks

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

at the risk of actually prolonging this death of this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG1NrQYXjLU

it just somehow reminds me of Billy Idol's 'Dancing with Myself'

sorry, everyone...

Great song thanks

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

And another

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

In other words, you didn't read very carefully...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

Maybe, maybe not

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Did my 5 mile TT test on 130mm cranks this morning. They did not feel as weird as I expected. Will give them a try on my Martis ride tomorrow.
Still have yet to find too short is making my power numbers go way down. I wonder how short I have to go before I see this. Having to increase the rpm
rate as the cranks get shorter is interesting.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Warbird wrote: "In other words, you didn't read very carefully…"

I try to read everything carefully. All I can say is this is a thread talking about how crank length can be manipulated to optimize power and bike fit. You popped into this thread at post 1082 with this: "Because, unless your cranks are long enough that they restrict your movement, crank length doesn't really affect fit.” Now, if you had prefaced that remark with the words “I agree with Frank here …” there would be no error in your intent but you didn’t. There was no offer as to how you would find whether a crank was restricting movement or not. The purpose of that statement was interpreted by me that Dave was wasting his time going real short because you didn’t see any benefit. As I pointed out later after more detail was pried out of you it appears to me that perhaps one of the reasons you didn’t see any benefit was your testing procedure was flawed.
Frank Day

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Did my Martis course this morning on 130mm cranks, avg 84 rpm. Still ended up with a decent time and power number. Had to get out of the seat more starting around 13%. Clearly, without move low gears, getting harder on real steep stuff, but again, overall, I have not seen any big drop off in stats. Guess I will have to try 125mm's tomorrow on my 5 mile TT loop.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Just got back from my long run this morning. Car said it was 25 degrees. COLD!

But, I had a good run time. So for the folks saying short cranks will destroy my run, again, I am not finding any data to say this is true.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Why do you keep bringing this up as though it's a revelation? Power is the product of pedal force, crank length, and cadence. As you keep reducing the crank length, one or both of the other two is going to have to increase in order to keep your power the same.

Given that you used to ride 200's at 95 RPM, to produce the same power on 130's at 85 RPM requires about 72% more pedal force. It's not surprising in the slightest that you might have to stand through some sections of your course.

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Less is more.