Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [awenborn] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 5:20

Post #1026 of 1333 (6997 views)

awenborn wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

I had to made the 1000th post.

To commemorate this momentous milestone, I thought I'd go back and have a look at just how one-sided this "debate" has been:

I, for one, would like to congratulate Dave on such a phenomenal and sustained effort in making this thread one of the greatest Slowtwitch trolling efforts of all time.

Shouldn't it read "Dave & Frank's Posts"

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 5:40

Post #1027 of 1333 (6975 views)

Richard Blaine wrote:

awenborn wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

I had to made the 1000th post.

To commemorate this momentous milestone, I thought I'd go back and have a look at just how one-sided this "debate" has been:

I, for one, would like to congratulate Dave on such a phenomenal and sustained effort in making this thread one of the greatest Slowtwitch trolling efforts of all time.

Can you go back and give us a bar chart with the percentage of Dave's post per percentile, i.e. in the first 10% of posts 60% were his, the 2nd 10% 55%, etc? I think that would be helpful.

Something like this? This is the number of Dave's posts as a proportion of the total divided into 25-post intervals:

It's been a steady and consistent effort, but most notable is the recent peak of 19 out of 25 posts (76%) in the "975-1000 post" interval as he made that concerted effort to push it across the landmark 1000-post barrier. I think you can also see the points where Dave is actually riding his bike (or velotron) and his post counts drop to less than 5 posts per 25! It's a good job there's not been too many of those otherwise this thread never would have made the distance...

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Mike Alexander] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 5:42

Post #1028 of 1333 (6971 views)

Mike Alexander wrote:

awenborn wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

I had to made the 1000th post.

To commemorate this momentous milestone, I thought I'd go back and have a look at just how one-sided this "debate" has been:

I, for one, would like to congratulate Dave on such a phenomenal and sustained effort in making this thread one of the greatest Slowtwitch trolling efforts of all time.

Shouldn't it read "Dave & Frank's Posts"

I'm happy to post up a spreadsheet of my data, but I can't tell you anything about how I generated those numbers or how valid they might be...

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [awenborn] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 5:53

Post #1029 of 1333 (6956 views)

the repeated bumping efforts to bring it back to the front page as well, don't forget.

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [awenborn] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 6:04

Post #1030 of 1333 (6943 views)

awenborn wrote:

Richard Blaine wrote:

awenborn wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

I had to made the 1000th post.

To commemorate this momentous milestone, I thought I'd go back and have a look at just how one-sided this "debate" has been:

I, for one, would like to congratulate Dave on such a phenomenal and sustained effort in making this thread one of the greatest Slowtwitch trolling efforts of all time.

Can you go back and give us a bar chart with the percentage of Dave's post per percentile, i.e. in the first 10% of posts 60% were his, the 2nd 10% 55%, etc? I think that would be helpful.

Something like this? This is the number of Dave's posts as a proportion of the total divided into 25-post intervals:

It's been a steady and consistent effort, but most notable is the recent peak of 19 out of 25 posts (76%) in the "975-1000 post" interval as he made that concerted effort to push it across the landmark 1000-post barrier. I think you can also see the points where Dave is actually riding his bike (or velotron) and his post counts drop to less than 5 posts per 25! It's a good job there's not been too many of those otherwise this thread never would have made the distance...

Nice. I'm confident that later attempts at such epicness as achieved here will find valuable data amongst your analysis.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [awenborn] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 6:37

Post #1031 of 1333 (6910 views)

awenborn wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

I had to made the 1000th post.

To commemorate this momentous milestone, I thought I'd go back and have a look at just how one-sided this "debate" has been:

I, for one, would like to congratulate Dave on such a phenomenal and sustained effort in making this thread one of the greatest Slowtwitch trolling efforts of all time.

You are welcome. I really am honored how many folks are willing to put so much of their energy in to helping me.
Now, I have some pea gravel that needs to be moved.

Or some christmas lights to put up.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Last edited by: h2ofun: Dec 12, 17 10:24

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [awenborn] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 6:39

Post #1032 of 1333 (6905 views)

awenborn wrote:

Richard Blaine wrote:

awenborn wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

I had to made the 1000th post.

To commemorate this momentous milestone, I thought I'd go back and have a look at just how one-sided this "debate" has been:

I, for one, would like to congratulate Dave on such a phenomenal and sustained effort in making this thread one of the greatest Slowtwitch trolling efforts of all time.

Can you go back and give us a bar chart with the percentage of Dave's post per percentile, i.e. in the first 10% of posts 60% were his, the 2nd 10% 55%, etc? I think that would be helpful.

Something like this? This is the number of Dave's posts as a proportion of the total divided into 25-post intervals:

It's been a steady and consistent effort, but most notable is the recent peak of 19 out of 25 posts (76%) in the "975-1000 post" interval as he made that concerted effort to push it across the landmark 1000-post barrier. I think you can also see the points where Dave is actually riding his bike (or velotron) and his post counts drop to less than 5 posts per 25! It's a good job there's not been too many of those otherwise this thread never would have made the distance...

I think we are in like the top 20 or so top replies posts of all time. We need to get to the top 10 of all time. With the testing I have left, and the folks willingness to post their opinions, I think we can make it. And all this with Dan 100% ignoring this thread even exists. :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 6:45

Post #1033 of 1333 (6892 views)

Proof if ever that quantity is not proportional to quality, as I've yet to see anything useful come out of this thread.

Having said that, I'll happily update my chart if you reach 2000 posts.

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Mike Alexander] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 6:48

Post #1034 of 1333 (6888 views)

Mike Alexander wrote:

Shouldn't it read "Dave & Frank's Posts"

I think it should read: "Dave & Dave (Frank)s' posts"

I commemorate this #1034 post.

Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Dec 12, 17 6:48

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 6:49

Post #1035 of 1333 (6882 views)

Do you have data on sessions where you spruzzamist v. non-spruzzamist sessions?

Hell, you may need to start all over.

Last edited by: nc452010: Dec 12, 17 7:12

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [awenborn] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 9:02

Post #1036 of 1333 (6797 views)

awenborn wrote:

Proof if ever that quantity is not proportional to quality, as I've yet to see anything useful come out of this thread.

Having said that, I'll happily update my chart if you reach 2000 posts.

How about each 100 milestone?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [nc452010] [ In reply to ]

Dec 12, 17 9:03

Post #1037 of 1333 (6794 views)

nc452010 wrote:

Do you have data on sessions where you spruzzamist v. non-spruzzamist sessions?

Hell, you may need to start all over.

Still waiting for the version that works with aerobars. Stay tuned

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 17 8:16

Post #1038 of 1333 (6597 views)

Have gone back to try a little testing with various RPM's with the shorter 150mm cranks and 220 watts erg mode. Clearly I am finding my limit. Pushing the 220 watts for 50 minutes is much harder than 200 watts. I also find, since I am in erg mode with fixed gearing, I cannot push over 260 watts on the shorter cranks without standing up.
I also find it impossible to spin at 100 watts in aero mode with the PC's.

Now, going to try the same setup tomorrow but using fixed cranks at 150mm.

For me, this is still fun collecting data and seeing what happens with different changes.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 17 13:53

Post #1039 of 1333 (6492 views)

Have you tried riding with a 150mm on the left hand side,and a 220mm on the right hand side for a week,gathering data and then switching it to the other side for a further week?

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [Leeken] [ In reply to ]

Dec 13, 17 14:25

Post #1040 of 1333 (6462 views)

Leeken wrote:

Have you tried riding with a 150mm on the left hand side,and a 220mm on the right hand side for a week,gathering data and then switching it to the other side for a further week?

Not yet, but sounds like a great idea. And I guess I should lock one side, and ride the other side in powercranks mode?

Frank says he has some shorter ones in the mail. Going to be interesting to try 140 and 135's. Just fun to play with stuff on the off season to give me some
focus. Still have no idea what my bike setup will look like for my first race which makes this fun.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 17 4:27

Post #1041 of 1333 (6378 views)

Since I hope to put on, and maybe try even shorter cranks tomorrow, I keep asking myself, what am I going to find in data that shows me there is a point where short is too short.
Always good to try to ask before doing something, what are the possible outcomes. I know a few have said they went back to longer, but never have seen a controlled test
presented where there is good data that shows why. Will see if I can do any better.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 17 11:42

Post #1042 of 1333 (6286 views)

H2Ofun wrote: "Since I hope to put on, and maybe try even shorter cranks tomorrow, I keep asking myself, what am I going to find in data that shows me there is a point where short is too short.
Always good to try to ask before doing something, what are the possible outcomes. I know a few have said they went back to longer, but never have seen a controlled test
presented where there is good data that shows why. Will see if I can do any better.”

That is easy, when the cranks start to get too short the HR will start to go up for the same power. This is similar to what we did initially except we are not in ergometer mode. The reason it works is your power for these runs is essentially the same. Once that happens then it is simply choosing the crank length that feels best to you from a cadence and comfort perspective. Perhaps we will find that 135 at a cadence of 90 lets you run better off the bike thank 150 at cadence of 70. So, we will just try stuff then decide.

Frank Day

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 17 11:44

Post #1043 of 1333 (6284 views)

h2ofun wrote:

H2Ofun wrote: "Since I hope to put on, and maybe try even shorter cranks tomorrow, I keep asking myself, what am I going to find in data that shows me there is a point where short is too short.
Always good to try to ask before doing something, what are the possible outcomes. I know a few have said they went back to longer, but never have seen a controlled test
presented where there is good data that shows why. Will see if I can do any better.”

That is easy, when the cranks start to get too short the HR will start to go up for the same power. This is similar to what we did initially except we are not in ergometer mode. The reason it works is your power for these runs is essentially the same. Once that happens then it is simply choosing the crank length that feels best to you from a cadence and comfort perspective. Perhaps we will find that 135 at a cadence of 90 lets you run better off the bike thank 150 at cadence of 70. So, we will just try stuff then decide.

Frank Day

I really do notice when I am riding with higher RPM, like 80 and above, the fatigue in my legs feel much higher than lets say 75 rpm.

Yep, will just keep testing and let the data lead us to the first race tryout

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 17 15:53

Post #1044 of 1333 (6167 views)

Darn, no cranks today.

Once I get them, will install on my outside velotron and will post another fit video as requested

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 17 16:43

Post #1045 of 1333 (6143 views)

H2Ofun wrote: "I really do notice when I am riding with higher RPM, like 80 and above, the fatigue in my legs feel much higher than lets say 75 rpm.

Yep, will just keep testing and let the data lead us to the first race tryout”

You used to “like” high cadences. Now you are used to low cadences. The HR really tells us how hard the muscles are working so if we bring the cadence up some (without increasing the pedal speed) my guess is you will adapt. But, if it continues that this feeling persists you are certainly going to choose the lower cadence since we probably won’t see much aero or power difference. The heavy lifting has been done. Now it is time for the nuances. Looking forward to seeing the before and after pictures of your fit changes also.

Frank Day

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 17 16:48

Post #1046 of 1333 (6138 views)

h2ofun wrote:

H2Ofun wrote: "I really do notice when I am riding with higher RPM, like 80 and above, the fatigue in my legs feel much higher than lets say 75 rpm.

Yep, will just keep testing and let the data lead us to the first race tryout”

You used to “like” high cadences. Now you are used to low cadences. The HR really tells us how hard the muscles are working so if we bring the cadence up some (without increasing the pedal speed) my guess is you will adapt. But, if it continues that this feeling persists you are certainly going to choose the lower cadence since we probably won’t see much aero or power difference. The heavy lifting has been done. Now it is time for the nuances. Looking forward to seeing the before and after pictures of your fit changes also.

Frank Day

Not sure I "liked" high cadence. But was always told one needed this to be able to run off the bike, so I believed, without any data, and just rode that way.
But as I have been testing, with different RPM's, etc. I have been able to see how the body feels and by doing this, I sure have seen how the legs at higher RPM's and power get tired faster. So is the best 70, 75, 80? As you say, we will let the data give us a direction, and then race season we shall see what happens.

What is so fun about this is rather than just believe what folks say, without any real data they have tested for, I will have something that at least says why I will try to race a certain way.
Then, can adjust. Ideally I would have ways to record things in the race to compare, but shall see what happens.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 17 17:17

Post #1047 of 1333 (6117 views)

h2ofun wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

H2Ofun wrote: "I really do notice when I am riding with higher RPM, like 80 and above, the fatigue in my legs feel much higher than lets say 75 rpm.

Yep, will just keep testing and let the data lead us to the first race tryout”

You used to “like” high cadences. Now you are used to low cadences. The HR really tells us how hard the muscles are working so if we bring the cadence up some (without increasing the pedal speed) my guess is you will adapt. But, if it continues that this feeling persists you are certainly going to choose the lower cadence since we probably won’t see much aero or power difference. The heavy lifting has been done. Now it is time for the nuances. Looking forward to seeing the before and after pictures of your fit changes also.

Frank Day

Not sure I "liked" high cadence. But was always told one needed this to be able to run off the bike, so I believed, without any data, and just rode that way.
But as I have been testing, with different RPM's, etc. I have been able to see how the body feels and by doing this, I sure have seen how the legs at higher RPM's and power get tired faster. So is the best 70, 75, 80? As you say, we will let the data give us a direction, and then race season we shall see what happens.

What is so fun about this is rather than just believe what folks say, without any real data they have tested for, I will have something that at least says why I will try to race a certain way.
Then, can adjust. Ideally I would have ways to record things in the race to compare, but shall see what happens.

Have you tried to use PC's with non round chainrings ?

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 17 17:30

Post #1048 of 1333 (6102 views)

I sure have seen how the legs at higher RPM's and power get tired faster. //

Ok, I can say with 100% certainly that every study out there, and there are 1000's, will say that riding at higher power and/or cadence will make you more tired. Or in other words require more effort..I'm glad that is finally settled, your welcome Dave!! (-;

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [monty] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 17 18:08

Post #1049 of 1333 (6079 views)

monty wrote:

I sure have seen how the legs at higher RPM's and power get tired faster. //

Ok, I can say with 100% certainly that every study out there, and there are 1000's, will say that riding at higher power and/or cadence will make you more tired. Or in other words require more effort..I'm glad that is finally settled, your welcome Dave!! (-;

So, if this is the case, why do so many say we should ride at 100 rpm? That is over the years what I feel I have read on ST. Just look at the attacks when I offered, for me, that 70 might be a better target?

So, what cranks are you using? Have you ever tried even shorter and seen what happened in racing?

I expected the power hit, but have been surprised how much the RPM hit has felt. Without doing these months of testing in a controlled way at various RPM levels from 50 to 110, I never would have even thought about it since I do not remember a post offering that maybe a little slower RPM level might produce a better overall race finish.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: My testing to try and find best crank length with my Velotron [perfection] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 17 18:11

Post #1050 of 1333 (6074 views)

perfection wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

H2Ofun wrote: "I really do notice when I am riding with higher RPM, like 80 and above, the fatigue in my legs feel much higher than lets say 75 rpm.

Yep, will just keep testing and let the data lead us to the first race tryout”

You used to “like” high cadences. Now you are used to low cadences. The HR really tells us how hard the muscles are working so if we bring the cadence up some (without increasing the pedal speed) my guess is you will adapt. But, if it continues that this feeling persists you are certainly going to choose the lower cadence since we probably won’t see much aero or power difference. The heavy lifting has been done. Now it is time for the nuances. Looking forward to seeing the before and after pictures of your fit changes also.

Frank Day

Not sure I "liked" high cadence. But was always told one needed this to be able to run off the bike, so I believed, without any data, and just rode that way.
But as I have been testing, with different RPM's, etc. I have been able to see how the body feels and by doing this, I sure have seen how the legs at higher RPM's and power get tired faster. So is the best 70, 75, 80? As you say, we will let the data give us a direction, and then race season we shall see what happens.

What is so fun about this is rather than just believe what folks say, without any real data they have tested for, I will have something that at least says why I will try to race a certain way.
Then, can adjust. Ideally I would have ways to record things in the race to compare, but shall see what happens.

Have you tried to use PC's with non round chainrings ?

Interesting question. I think I had bought some years ago, but could not get it to fit on the bike I had just made so had to return.
I am open to trying anything, why not. Even if something is mental, that can still give a performance improvement for some.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.