We are just taking it one step at a time, since I have back issues.

So our first step was to just get some data from what I was comfortable doing. So as you can see from the spreadsheet, it was working with different crank lengths at different RPM's, going up to down and now down to up, and see what my heart rate did.

As you can see from the spreadsheet, this morning, we started the next step, I spent half the time in the aero position per RPM and see what happens. Going to try 165's tomorrow with PC's unlocked even though I do not believe I can do that.

So, we are just slowly!!, trying to minimize the things we change, and get enough data from crank length, rpm sweet spot, tweaks to bike fit, etc. Is it a perfect process? No idea, but since I have never ever seen anyone attempt to gather data as to why they are using a bike the way they are, will see what happens.

This is why I post what is going on. At the end of the day it maybe garbage, but it may not be, meaning, at least, even now, I have data to show why I have gone to shorter cranks, and lower RPM's as a target for my races. Already I am having some of my friends thinking about what they are doing on the bike based on my data.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

All fair questions. I am not getting hung up on a "perfect" process. I am not getting hung up on do we have all the steps totally thought out and perfect?
Since for years Franks has bugged me saying I have all the tools with my Velotrons to do testing to try and answer questions, I finally have got off my butt to do it.

Another way I look at this. Does one work with a coach and keep hitting them with questions about why they are saying to do stuff? Most coaches would drop the client if they do not trust them.

So, I trust Frank Day, no matter what a few vocal folks say on ST. He is spending a lot of time working with me and yes, I push back some. He knows I am resistant to change, so he is working slowly with me as I mentally adjust to changes.

As I just posted, we are now adding in the aero testing. I was able to stay in them longer than I have, with fixed cranks, better bike fit, and shorter cranks.
Going to try tomorrow again to see if I can do in Powercrank mode. Going to try 165 cranks.

I also thought the articles linked to from Sutton saying his experience for most try folks is a RPM of 70, to keep the HR down, to have better running off the bike.
Well, that is one of Franks opinions. And my run at the race Sunday sure did nothing to say we are not on the right path.

So again, not trying to say what we are doing is perfect. Just trying to pass along data for n-1.

I am listening to the constructive inputs!! One of the reasons I am trying shorter cranks, got a bit fit, etc. is because of ST comments, but so many just want to attack me and say I am ignoring all the inputs, when it is not 100% their way, at the speed they think it needs to happen.

Oh well, I am proud of myself that after years, I am finally trying some new stuff and collecting data.

Keep the ideas coming.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

since it never crossed my mind, no one ask me a question, etc., never had any reason to look anything up. But thanks to inputs from ST, I now know something else I am doing wrong on my bike. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Comment sent to me from Frank Day after reading status of this thread

"I continue to read this thread with amusement. I am developing a protocol for determining best crank length for any given athlete and any given situation. The data we have gathered so far is very interesting and, I think, very powerful towards this end. Confounding factors towards this goal have made it go slower than I had hoped (Dave’s natural resistance to change, his continuing to race so data when tired isn’t as useful as when fresh).

I am confident that the changes we will make will give him substantially more speed next season through both more power and better aerodynamics. Right now I am anticipating he will see at least a 10% power increase (the data says more but it might be skewed by the fact that he was still somewhat tired from nationals when we started this process). Of course this is impossible to know as Dave doesn’t race with a power meter although he trains with one, the Velotron. But, beyond this his aerodynamics in the past have been pretty awful so I also expect big improvements there also and he has already seen those but I think we can do even better.

So my goal is to improve his sustainable power, aerodynamics, and comfort on the bike and we still have a ways to go but I am comfortable the results will be seen next season. Dave is at such a level that big changes aren’t going to come from simply training more.

So I would suggest that since none of you seem to have a clue what I am doing that you stop trying to belittle or embarrass Dave (it doesn’t seem to work) and wait for the results (we should have power results by end of year) and then criticize or, alternatively, assuming we are successful, show some curiosity as to what others are doing."

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Why doesn't Frank post his own comments?

I believe he is banned. For what I am not sure.

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Fit Endurance Coaching - Head Coach|Facebook
USAT L1 Coach | BikeFit Certified Fitter | Contributing Writer - Triathlete Magazine | ROKA

I believe he was banned from the forum a while ago

He was banned from cyclingnews forum for being generally unhinged and making wild claims, attacking people and trolling. I suspect his behaviour on ST was similar.

That’s what happens when the scientific evidence for your product working is Dave.

Because some do not like him. Just like some love to attack me. I just love the snowflakes

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Some other top level athletes are now working with frank doing the same thing i am doing. Will see if they will post on this thread to provide more data for folks to look at.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Attacking you does not a snowflake make

(Total aside but i am not even sure you understand the meaning of the word or its etymology)

Attacking luddites, ignorance and clown like behaviour and calling it out for what it is keeps the forum honest

Frank Day was / is a snake oil salesman. The fact you buy in to what he says tells us more about you than anything new about him.

I am sure Frank will increase your power by 10% when you dont even know what it is now - fucking idiots!

But, but but... did he mention he has a Velotron?! And he's a really fast runner (for his age). And anything you have to say doesn't apply to him because he's really tall.

You maybe right .love your language

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

We love your stupidity

You have no response, you have access to a wealth of information but choose bernie madoff over warren buffet (its an analogy in case you wonder)

You wallow in ignorance, lack any willingness to acknowledge advice.

You are the resident flat earther, anti vaxer, anti AGW.........these are analogies in case you wonder

You are content to be the middle ages to the current enlightenment

You are a troll. You pose questions as if interested in answers but really your goal is neither enlightenment nor answers, but to talk solely of yourself

So instead of continuing to indulge your shit for 300 odd posts we need to call you on it

AMEN! I've been on this board a long time, and its time we start calling out Dave for his self-indulgent shit posts. But then again, he won't listen to us anyway and will keep right on talking about himself. I can't imagine being that full of myself.

Thanks for the nice snowflake comments. Makes for fun reading while i am sitting with family at Disneyland

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You do realize you're proving his point? Right? It just makes it painfully more obvious when you don't actually respond with anything but projection.

Your opinion.

I never try to jump in the mud with anyone. When one resorts to personal attacks and language says everything about their character. So few folks can debate. And why read let alone post on a thread they have no interest providing constructive comments just makes me smile

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You are not interested in discourse or debate.

You are wilfully ignorant

I could give zero fucks where you are or who you are with.

We're no more interested in where you are than anyone is interested in where i am - and for the record i guarantee i am in a better place than disneyland

Youbare obviously humoured, indulged and tolerated and no one has ever provided feesback on your narcissistic personality.

Well, everytime you turn someone elses news in to some bull shit dave centric shit we'll call you on it

Coming from a pure roadie, and why I chose what I have:

I own an aero race bike and the gear setup it came with I would say is plenty generous for any hills a seasoned rider could see. Maybe not for a week in the Alps. But otherwise, fine.

But, outside of more training, I wanted more snap on the first pedal stroke of a sprint. So I went longer in size from stock when I bought a used power meter on here. I bought the matching crankset length for it.

This strategy of using your stronger leg on the downstroke for the start of your sprint is pretty common.

Seems odd to choose that just for a 30 second deal I won't hardly ever even do. But, I also wanted to a little more than 11-28 out back without a mid-cage. So the longer crank got me that also.

I have no issue averaging any RPM I want for hours on end. So it hasn't hurt that.

And that sprint.......yeah, it worked. It helps ever so slightly to pick a gear I know I can get up to 110 to 120 RPM from only 90 or so in a snap.

For you guys? My two-bit no-good theory would be that for a long bike ride in a Tri you're conserving the running muscles. Whatever setup allows you to blow XXXX kj over X hours on the bike but feel less fatigued for the run would be the winner.

From a purely aero standpoint, I'd assume a slower cadence to disturb the air less.

Love your posts keep them coming

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Thankd

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You are with your family at Disneyland, and arguing with people on the internet???

Not argiung with anyone. Dealing with 3 little ones under 7 is fun

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep