If Enve have designed a disc, my question is who did the bulk of the work on it? Would seem a bit odd if Simon Smart was involved as he has his D2Z disc has been around for a while now.

I have zero interest in an Enve disc. I feel they have little credibility and actively try to misinform the triathlon and cycling communities for their own gain. They can keep their disc.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I agree. After my thread here, http://forum.slowtwitch.com/..._triathlon_P6391715/

I'm not so sure I believe anything that comes from them. Claiming a 7.8 wheelset is faster than a disc wheel when everything from every test we have ever seen has said the opposite really made me question what they are doing.

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I am on your side 100%. I’m switching over from tubulars after YEARS, but reading your thread helped draw a line thru ENVE. Really like the Zipp 808 NSW/SUP 9, but that’s another topic.

Yeah whenever I get a new bike I'll be getting the 858/Super 9. HED and Flo have more credibility than ENVE right now.

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For my money HED and roval are the best choices out there. Currently running a HED jet +disc and roval clx 64 front. I really appreciated Specialized's open discussion on here regarding their clx 50 white paper. A jet 6 or 9 front for less money and better braking would be a solid choice too.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

We know Roval is working on a disc.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

geez...

I'll sell my 808/Super9 as soon as it happens... So much angst against Enve in this thread

Doubts ENVE data but believes Zipp. Okay.

Contributes nothing but “oh it’s slow. I have an NDA and I can’t say anything”.

Unless you have anything useful, don’t follow me around and criticize every post.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Pretty sure I was on this thread first. ;)

Still not really sure how you can trust one marketing department and not another though, seems thin.

SES wheels are developed by Simon Smart on the D2Z wondering tunnel and I have no doubt that they are very fast in the specific protocols they set. Keep in mind every tunnel/test methodology is a bit different which is why Specialized stuff always tests fastest in their tunnel. Are there cases when a deep section is faster than a disc? Absolutely, but it will be incredibly dependent on frame/fork/wheel/yaw. Is a disc the safest and best all around bet for going fastest without testing infinite combinations? Yup. From the best to worst disc the very most you'll be able to pick up is in the range of 5-8w (frame dependent), and I don't see ENVE or Specialized breaking new ground there (the very fastest discs have drawbacks).

Going back to ENVE, do I think they have a well made product? Sure, but it likely isn't the fastest and isn't worth the money. I'd say the same for Zipp except for the 'well-made' part. Not sure why you would even consider Zipp when HED is cheaper and faster.

Now we can have a good conversation. Amazing when we don’t attack each other?

Wheels are so close that I’ll pick what I like :)

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I don't get you dude. I've seen your results, you're fast. I just can't understand why you don't want to be faster.

I've looked pretty hard and couldn't find a drawback to the Jet or Aeox discs. Even has that lovely all-weather braking surface. Or are those not the fastest?

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

I think there is something to the idea that the aerodynamics of the top wheels are very close, averaged across conditions. Tire preferences could narrow wheel choices a little bit. Price could a lot. The roval is probably tiny bit faster than the comparable hed wheel, but significantly pricier. I made the choice to go with the roval, but I think a lot of rational people would choose the hed instead.

I have not seen convincing data showing Zipp or Enve are faster than the rovals. Specialized's data shows roval faster than the NSW, of course with their own protocol. But I see no reason to spend even more money for those wheels.

On top of that, my opinion of Enve of being a bad actor turns me off of them even if there was compelling evidence that their wheel was better.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Price/performance they're the best. There are a couple of unique discs out there but they have issues with clearance and/or have limited gear choice (and even then we're talking about minute gains).

Well I don't want to rain on your parade... ;)
The Rovals are fine, and I would have chosen them over Zipp and ENVE.

I try not to be beholden to any brand, but dammit HED really did a great job (the amount of work it took AeroCoach to put a watt and a half into them is testament to that).

Why the 858?

Because it’s as fast or slightly faster than the 808 NSW according to Zipp, a little narrower, and it’s looks awesome.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I thought it was ironic because this thread became about actual data vs. marketing speak (against ENVE) and the 454/858 lack any data that supports Zipp's claims. The only wind tunnel test I've seen was done by Princeton and it doesn't look good for Zipp.

What’s more interesting is how every tunnel test can show different things. It’s up to you to believe who you want.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

My thoughts while waiting for a flight

HED Jet+ (Currently own multiple wheels)
Pros:
-fast
-inexpensive
-decent build quality
-all weather braking
Cons:
-bead seat diameter seems to consistently run a bit large making tire install a bit of a hassle

HED Jet Black (I own a 6 and a disc)
Pros:
-fast
-ok price
-decent build quality
-best braking available
Cons:
-bead seat diameter again

Roval (own a CLX 50)
Pros:
-fast
-light
-ok braking in the dry
-easy to mount tires (even tubeless aren’t bad)
Cons:
-wet weather braking is abysmal
-I’m not fully on board with the spoke count

Zipp 404NSW (I own a pair)
Pros:
-braking is on par with aluminum both wet and dry
-fast with a 23mm GP TT (my preferred tire)
-easy tire install
Cons:
-expensive... you could get way more bang for your buck by just buying HEDs and spending the savings on tunnel time.
-not tubeless

Enve (never owned any of their products)
Pros:
-fast (let’s be honest, all of these wheels are pretty fast and selection will be tire/frame/etc dependent)
-available as rims only if you want to do a custom build
-supposedly ok braking
-internal nipples
Cons:
-expensive
-their marketing shenanigans regarding the 7.8s are unforgivable

green please..


the enve with textured track brake better then zipp NSW.. dry and wet

Here is another ENVE plus. Provides neutral support at master's nationals. Teammate flats in the crit and gets an ENVE spare. Teammate gets taken out in the sprint (not good). Takes the miscellaneous pieces of ENVE wheel back to the pit. ENVE guys are totally cool with him destroying a brand new wheel.