Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague

Jul 31, 19 22:24

Post #1 of 272 (13208 views)

According to german tri-site tri-mag.de, an agegrouper said the words "Dopers stink. All of them. Always" (it is sort of a catchphrase over here. I've seen it on stickers and T-shirts) directed towards Weiss as he was lapping him in the run at Challenge Prague.

This much is undisputed. What happened next comes in two versions:
The agegrouper says that Weiss stopped, turned around and punched him in the gut! He reported as much at the next aid station and at the finish-line immediately, but there were no direct witnesses of the punch.

Weiss' side of the story is that after passing the guy he was being shouted at aggressively and therefore stopped and turned around abruptly, which caused the agegrouper to bump into him.

link original article [german]

My take:
Obviously any discussion on this is opinion and speculation since there were no witnesses, but man does it fit my opinion of Weiss and dopers in general. And his excuse? "The guy bumped into me" - yeah, right...
What is also a bit concerning are the facebook-comments on the story. There is quite a few people who seem to think that (assuming the punching did really happen) the agegrouper got what he deserved for abusing Weiss verbally. Which A) if you look at that sentence he wasn't really, he was just stating an opinion not even directly referencing Weiss and B) I don't know 'bout you, but I think I must have been 4 or 5 years old when I learned that I must not punch other kids just because they call me names...

if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

Last edited by: flogazo: Jul 31, 19 22:36

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [flogazo] [ In reply to ]

Jul 31, 19 22:41

Post #2 of 272 (13159 views)

flogazo wrote:

B) I don't know 'bout you, but I think I must have been 4 or 5 years old when I learned that I must not punch other kids just because they call me names...

I also learned that taunting others might get you punched...

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [flogazo] [ In reply to ]

Jul 31, 19 23:28

Post #3 of 272 (13058 views)

All correct how you describe the situation but this:

flogazo wrote:

Which A) if you look at that sentence he wasn't really, he was just stating an opinion not even directly referencing Weiss

is speculation of your side.
How can you assume he was not directly referencing Weiss.
In fact, I would say, since there were obviously not witnessess, it could have only been Weiss he referenced.

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]

Jul 31, 19 23:50

Post #4 of 272 (13004 views)

longtrousers wrote:

All correct how you describe the situation but this:

flogazo wrote:

Which A) if you look at that sentence he wasn't really, he was just stating an opinion not even directly referencing Weiss

is speculation of your side.
How can you assume he was not directly referencing Weiss.
In fact, I would say, since there were obviously not witnessess, it could have only been Weiss he referenced.

How can a wookie live on a planet full of ewoks? It doesn't make any sense!

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 0:24

Post #5 of 272 (12934 views)

longtrousers wrote:

How can you assume he was not directly referencing Weiss

I don't have to assume. If "Dopers stink. All of them. Always" is all he said he LITERALLY didn't reference Mr Weiss in that statement.
Now, if he had said: "Mr Weiss. You are a doper and you stink!" - different story. Still wouldn't justify a punch, imho...

if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [flogazo] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 0:52

Post #6 of 272 (12871 views)

flogazo wrote:

longtrousers wrote:

How can you assume he was not directly referencing Weiss

I don't have to assume. If "Dopers stink. All of them. Always" is all he said he LITERALLY didn't reference Mr Weiss in that statement.
Now, if he had said: "Mr Weiss. You are a doper and you stink!" - different story. Still wouldn't justify a punch, imho...

Of course he was directing it at Weiss or was he just running laps chanting it?
Don't poke the bear... Got what he deserved.

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [flogazo] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 0:52

Post #7 of 272 (12871 views)

flogazo wrote:

What is also a bit concerning are the facebook-comments on the story. There is quite a few people who seem to think that (assuming the punching did really happen) the agegrouper got what he deserved for abusing Weiss verbally.

Not true. Comments are more in the type of "what to expect?". Not saying that it is what you deserve.

Other than that: Two statements. We do not know which is true. And who knows anything about the character of that age grouper. Maybe he is looking for publicity? Maybe Weiss punched him. Maybe Weiss stopped that suddenly that the age grouper bumped into him. We do not know, so we should stop speculating...

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 1:46

Post #8 of 272 (12770 views)

Shambolic wrote:

Don't poke the bear... Got what he deserved.

jup, that's what I meant. I stand by my earlier statement "What is also a bit concerning..."

if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 2:20

Post #9 of 272 (12708 views)

Shambolic wrote:

flogazo wrote:

longtrousers wrote:

How can you assume he was not directly referencing Weiss

I don't have to assume. If "Dopers stink. All of them. Always" is all he said he LITERALLY didn't reference Mr Weiss in that statement.
Now, if he had said: "Mr Weiss. You are a doper and you stink!" - different story. Still wouldn't justify a punch, imho...

Of course he was directing it at Weiss or was he just running laps chanting it?
Don't poke the bear... Got what he deserved.

If Michie Weiss doesn't want to be shamed for being a doper, then he should not have doped. Weiss got what he deserved and I hope he gets more of it - especially since he was given the opportunity to come clean here and open up about his past. He accepted that opportunity and then refused to talk about doping, or even admit he ever did anything wrong.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 2:29

Post #10 of 272 (12669 views)

RowToTri wrote:

If Michie Weiss doesn't want to be shamed for being a doper, then he should not have doped....

AMEN!

And since the governing body doesn't hand out life-time bans for EPO and blood-transfusions (and other infractions of that "level") as they should in my opinion, the only thing one can do is express your feeling of not wanting those dopers in our sport even after the ban has been served.
I'm not saying it needs to be insults and definitely no violence, but nothing against being very vocal with your opinion at any chance possible. I think not shaking hands at a podium is a good example of "passive resistance". I personally wouldn't do/say anything DURING a race, but thats personal preference I guess. Anyway, the goal should be to try and create a culture of "not-welcome-ness" against dopers.

Unfortunately there are enough people in the other camp happily welcoming those cheats back in the sport, fanboying around them and inviting them to their races as it is anyway...

if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

Last edited by: flogazo: Aug 1, 19 2:30

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 2:30

Post #11 of 272 (12665 views)

That may be your stance but if you don't want to get punched for acting like a flog then keep your mouth shut. It's ironic on another thread everyone showing their love for Lance go figure. Why does everyone have to appease the Slowtwitch crowd to be vindicated?

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 2:35

Post #12 of 272 (12655 views)

Shambolic wrote:

That may be your stance but if you don't want to get punched for acting like a flog then keep your mouth shut.

by "acting like a flog" you mean what exactly? Expressing my opinion about dopers in general or doing so unnecessaryly agressively DURING a race?

If it is the former, your statement is the very definition of OMERTA

if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 2:36

Post #13 of 272 (12652 views)

Shambolic wrote:

That may be your stance but if you don't want to get punched for acting like a flog then keep your mouth shut. It's ironic on another thread everyone showing their love for Lance go figure. Why does everyone have to appease the Slowtwitch crowd to be vindicated?

So Michie punching someone for calling him a doper is a reasonable response? We should expect that and be ok with that? He should not be disqualified from the race (or banned again) for that? I think an additional ban is warranted if it can be shown that he punched another competitor in the race. Criminal charges might even be filed.

If Weiss had used the opportunity given him on slowtwitch to show remorse and if he started to work against doping, maybe he might deserve a less harsh welcome. But he did not do that. Why should we want someone poisonous like that to feel welcome in our community?

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [flogazo] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 2:40

Post #14 of 272 (12637 views)

Sorry wasn't in reference to you I just recognised your title it's an Aussie slang term and referenced to the dude that may have been punched or may have run into Weiss...
https://www.urbandictionary.com/...g%20%2F%20flog%20bag

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [flogazo] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 2:46

Post #15 of 272 (12612 views)

flogazo wrote:

And since the governing body doesn't hand out life-time bans for EPO and blood-transfusions (and other infractions of that "level") as they should in my opinion, the only thing one can do is express your feeling of not wanting those dopers in our sport even after the ban has been served.

Then the governing body is the one you need to address. I don't get why you think harassing people who is doing their job after serving their sentence is a smart way to play it. Do you always think it is ok to be an asshole or is it only in conjunction with certain types of "crimes"?

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 3:07

Post #16 of 272 (12559 views)

Schnellinger wrote:

flogazo wrote:

And since the governing body doesn't hand out life-time bans for EPO and blood-transfusions (and other infractions of that "level") as they should in my opinion, the only thing one can do is express your feeling of not wanting those dopers in our sport even after the ban has been served.

Then the governing body is the one you need to address. I don't get why you think harassing people who is doing their job after serving their sentence is a smart way to play it. Do you always think it is ok to be an asshole or is it only in conjunction with certain types of "crimes"?

WADA has its rules. That does not mean we cannot as a community act in a way that further discourages cheating in our sport by making cheaters feel unwelcome. That's not being an asshole, that's advocating for fair competition.

I find it odd that some people seem to think that someone calling a doper a doper is the objectional part (it's nothing but a truthful statement of fact), but appear to have no problem with that doper reacting with physical violence.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 3:07

Post #17 of 272 (12557 views)

Probably not the most reasonable but as I say don't poke the bear because people are human and react if he really did punch the guy or just stop. At the end of the day he was convicted of supposedly having blood taken for enrichment as a 24 year old in 2005 as a MTB'er during the worst period in cycling. Maybe he feels embarrassed at making a mistake as a young man and doesn't feel comfortable talking about his mistakes and just want to move on. I wanted to dislike him but when I met in Kona, had dinner with him and he's a nice guy and I realised there is a human side. He's never tested positive in a test racing at the highest level his whole life. I am anti doping as I am racing at a competitive level but I also understand people make mistakes and at some point there should be some compassion shown. There's a lot worse people out there in my every day life. He is entitled to race, continues to test clean and deserves a level of respect IMO that the competitor failed to display. You don't have to like him that is your choice and anyone can think what they want but that is my stance.

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [flogazo] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 3:16

Post #18 of 272 (12516 views)

It pains me to say it, but I I’m more inclined to believe Weiss than the rando AG guy. AG guy was specifically being antagonistic towards Weiss, I don’t doubt that he would take an opportunity to make Weiss look bad and possibly get him thrown out of the sport again.

I don’t feel very strongly about that position though. I’ll give myself 60:40 odds of the above being the way it unfolded.

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Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 4:19

Post #19 of 272 (12348 views)

Schnellinger wrote:

flogazo wrote:

And since the governing body doesn't hand out life-time bans for EPO and blood-transfusions (and other infractions of that "level") as they should in my opinion, the only thing one can do is express your feeling of not wanting those dopers in our sport even after the ban has been served.

Then the governing body is the one you need to address. I don't get why you think harassing people who is doing their job after serving their sentence is a smart way to play it. Do you always think it is ok to be an asshole or is it only in conjunction with certain types of "crimes"?

no, I think it is generally not ok to be an a**hole (thanks for implicitly calling me that), but
1) I don't think that "express[ing] your feeling of not wanting those dopers in our sport" constitutes being an a**hole and
2) Being an a**hole doesn't justify a violent offense (in a legal way - I get that it makes it more understandable from the human perspective)

if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [flogazo] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 4:23

Post #20 of 272 (12331 views)

flogazo wrote:

longtrousers wrote:

How can you assume he was not directly referencing Weiss

I don't have to assume. If "Dopers stink. All of them. Always" is all he said he LITERALLY didn't reference Mr Weiss in that statement.
Now, if he had said: "Mr Weiss. You are a doper and you stink!" - different story. Still wouldn't justify a punch, imho...

Well either way someone had a guilty conscience after serving a suspension for doping and thought he was talking to him..

Last edited by: Bioteknik: Aug 1, 19 4:27

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 4:43

Post #21 of 272 (12244 views)

Shambolic wrote:

That may be your stance but if you don't want to get punched for acting like a flog then keep your mouth shut. It's ironic on another thread everyone showing their love for Lance go figure. Why does everyone have to appease the Slowtwitch crowd to be vindicated?

Not every one is loving Dopestrong.
My own view is that he should be burned at the stake like middle englanders used to do with witches.
Same should go for Weis actually.
And Vino.
And lots of others.

For me... I'd have hit him back - a lot harder (no witnesses remember😏) and I'm a lot bigger that him, even with his life long cheating barsterd doping gains.

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 4:56

Post #22 of 272 (12195 views)

BobAjobb wrote:

Not every one is loving Dopestrong.
My own view is that he should be burned at the stake like middle englanders used to do with witches.
Same should go for Weis actually.
And Vino.
And lots of others.

For me... I'd have hit him back - a lot harder (no witnesses remember😏) and I'm a lot bigger that him, even with his life long cheating barsterd doping gains.

L O L

Don't stop when you're tired. Stop when you're done.

- D. Goggins

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [flogazo] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 5:16

Post #23 of 272 (12126 views)

Ugghh.....
1. Wish it had been caught on camera
2. Wish Weiss had beat the living shit out of the guy.

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 5:24

Post #24 of 272 (12074 views)

Quote:

It pains me to say it, but I I’m more inclined to believe Weiss than the rando AG guy.

I am too primarily because I have personal experience calling him out directly and not getting punched. Warning: backdoor brag coming.

Very early pre-race at Kona 2014 I'm sitting in the lobby/hallway inside the King Kam just chilling, trying not to get to stressed, etc. I end up sitting next to a pleasant woman who's obviously not racing but is support crew. We chat for maybe 1-2 mins and her husband/boyfriend is racing and that's why she's there. I don't think anything about it. A few minutes later her racer walks up and she goes to introduce him and it's immediately obvious to me that it's Weiss. I say something to the effect that he shouldn't be there given his past and the controversy. I did not start yelling "dopers suck" or anything like that. He did not get angry, react the way one might expect he would, or punch me. He simply said something similar to "I understand and respect that. Nice to meet you and have a good race." They then got up and walked off. At the end of the day he finished about 4 hours in front of me.

Re: Michael Weiss gets into row with an agegrouper at Challenge Prague [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]

Aug 1, 19 5:33

Post #25 of 272 (12030 views)

SBRcanuck wrote:

2. Wish Weiss had beat the living shit out of the guy.

Why? Extreme physical violence for heckling? Good luck playing in the NFL or NBA! :)

Do you want someone to go beat the shit out of Sam Gyde too?

Last edited by: trail: Aug 1, 19 5:36

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