Reminds me of the central governor theory and talks around brain plasticity. Not sure I understood all the concepts behind it but bottom line the more we do something uncomfortable the less painful it becomes.

I especially liked the Can' Hurt Me audiobook from Goggins. Some of the podcast-style mid chapter discussions are where you can see how mental toughness is created out of what a person sees as necessity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKH8r9FknE0


Ran across this the other day...we all bust our butts to get the right equipment. Maybe it's the intangibles and it's hiding upstairs and we have to tap into it.

Either way, interesting thoughts and worth five minutes of your day.

Reminds me of the central governor theory and talks around brain plasticity. Not sure I understood all the concepts behind it but bottom line the more we do something uncomfortable the less painful it becomes.

Funny you mention central governor theory, it was hit on in a book I read that's somewhat related to the topic. Really interesting analysis of the mental side of endurance.

Book is Endure by Alex Hutchinson. Highly recommend it for anyone on here.

Funny you mention central governor theory, it was hit on in a book I read that's somewhat related to the topic. Really interesting analysis of the mental side of endurance.

Book is Endure by Alex Hutchinson. Highly recommend it for anyone on here.

I don't know where I stand in terms of the mental game.

I do know there are several guys I ride with that routinely put in 1.5x the volume I do with the same goals of road bike racing and cyclocross/gravel. Some are younger, some are older. I have no idea where any of us lie in terms of winning the "genetic lottery".

All I know is that it seems like there is an "edge" a couple of them don't have that makes that extra volume advantage they have not play out to their advantage. Maybe it's how that "edge" comes into play while they're doing the work of their volume.

It doesn't mean they can't suffer. I just think that some folks always keep the volume at a "5 or 6" out of "10" when training in any given zone. They're at the very bottom of Z2 or not even out of Z1 for long rides. Their tempo rides are actually Z2. Etc..... You can't live with the knob turned to "11" all the time, sure. But you've gotta be willing to focus and hurt sometimes. If your Z2 is from like 180-210w or something...........don't go out every single Z2 ride and average 178w. Yeah, holding 205w for 3 or 4 hours will hurt more.......but it's what you need.

I don't know. I feel it is an intangible that is an edge.

I think for AGers especially, mental toughness is tri is farrrrrr overrated. Yeah, I said it.

I think far more important in AG tri is DISCIPLINE. Specifically, the discipline to get up and do those workouts, day in, day out. Even if there are life obstacles and other constraints you have to work around.

You gimme a budding AGer who is highly disciplined and can do the entire coach plan year after year for several years, and even if they are afraid on race to go 'all into the pain/suffering zone', they'll wipe the floor against a similarly genetically talented AGer who can suffer to the MAX on race day, but has been semi-inconsistent with training or trains either too hard when it doesn't count and then pulls back too far otherwise.

I've been racing running/tri for 20 years now, and all my best, fastest races have come with the LEAST amount of personal suffering on race day. Literally every time. But those races have all come with the best training blocks (sometimes multiple prior training blocks) that led up to it and made those conditions possible.

Now if you're a pro/elite, ok, the differences can be small since talent is so high - suffering for them may literally mean the difference between winning the world championship vs nothing, but even so, look at how Tim odonnell took 2nd at Kona - even he says he suffered relatively little compared to prior years despite his great result.

I think for AGers especially, mental toughness is tri is farrrrrr overrated. Yeah, I said it.

I think far more important in AG tri is DISCIPLINE. Specifically, the discipline to get up and do those workouts, day in, day out. Even if there are life obstacles and other constraints you have to work around.

You gimme a budding AGer who is highly disciplined and can do the entire coach plan year after year for several years, and even if they are afraid on race to go 'all into the pain/suffering zone', they'll wipe the floor against a similarly genetically talented AGer who can suffer to the MAX on race day, but has been semi-inconsistent with training or trains either too hard when it doesn't count and then pulls back too far otherwise.

I've been racing running/tri for 20 years now, and all my best, fastest races have come with the LEAST amount of personal suffering on race day. Literally every time. But those races have all come with the best training blocks (sometimes multiple prior training blocks) that led up to it and made those conditions possible.

Now if you're a pro/elite, ok, the differences can be small since talent is so high - suffering for them may literally mean the difference between winning the world championship vs nothing, but even so, look at how Tim odonnell took 2nd at Kona - even he says he suffered relatively little compared to prior years despite his great result.

I think you mean discipline is underrated. Discipline and mental toughness are two different concepts, and one need not take the place of the other.

Part of what I really liked about Endure, which I plugged earlier in the thread, is the demonstrated link between mental fatigue and physical fatigue. If you do a taxing mental exercise before a workout, you will fatigue earlier. This is not impacted by discipline.

If you want to race at your best, you want both. Of course, discipline plays a large role, but the difference between equally talented, equally disciplined athletes can very easily be mental toughness. For all the talk of marginal gains and watts saved around here, the mental aspect is worth consideration. So much so, that before I read Endure, I didn't even realize how much some of these effects could play a role. Especially placebos and really believing in something, even if it doesn't actually help (ice baths is one example from the book). I think compression socks are probably a similar case, personally, because they cannot be tested against a true placebo treatment.

I used to think about mental toughness along these lines, I just didn't realize it. I still recall waiting on a T platform in Boston for 45 minutes when the wind chill was below 0 thinking that if I could suffer through that, my upcoming HIM would be fine. Embrace the suck. Learn to be uncomfortable. Train for the worst and hope for the best. And sometimes it's mental toughness that is needed to enable the discipline.

I especially liked the Can' Hurt Me audiobook from Goggins. Some of the podcast-style mid chapter discussions are where you can see how mental toughness is created out of what a person sees as necessity.

Would love to hear more about what you were able to apply from Goggins book (beyond the model he provides of a life of pushing beyond the norm). There's a reason we included a pic of him in the video...

The biggest take away for me is that improvements in mental toughness is something that can/should be worked on 24/7. His story is centered around physical accomplishments, but you can’t just work on the mind during physical bouts.
Next is growth mindset. It’s not a new-age way of thinking. It’s how you allow for improvement. As he says, it’s how cavemen improve.
And I really can identify with the concept of “Taking Souls.”

The mental toughness talked in the video is an interesting concept. Every person knew that but hardly to know the real meaning of the word. Athletes know that because they are always thriving ,and well prepared.
Most of the persons should have the mental toughness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKH8r9FknE0


Ran across this the other day...we all bust our butts to get the right equipment. Maybe it's the intangibles and it's hiding upstairs and we have to tap into it.

Either way, interesting thoughts and worth five minutes of your day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKH8r9FknE0


Ran across this the other day...we all bust our butts to get the right equipment. Maybe it's the intangibles and it's hiding upstairs and we have to tap into it.

Either way, interesting thoughts and worth five minutes of your day.